[Tormachmaster]

You two are great gives me some screw off time. What version/options do you run?

[BurrMan]

Hey look jr..... friends again! Lol

What version/options do you run?

Well, i run the bobcrap version.....

You.... oh yeah. Waiting for the suprise...

[mmoe]

Here's a quick video just to show that the modeling and CAM are easily done in Bobcad. Burr knows more than I do about the options in the multiaxis package, but you can get the jist of how quickly you can do what you asked. Total time of the video from blank screen to finished toolpath is 4 minutes 10 seconds. I could have probably added your text in another 5 minutes (tops), again all in Bobcad (though my 12 year old could tell you that the text looks wonky and should have been done from the surface normals instead of trimming a straight extrusion, they started using Fusion in 6th grade science last year).

Video Download:
https://files.secureserver.net/0sgnsUgtVCZXo1

[Tormachmaster]

I just projected the text was not trying to direct it in any way.

[jrmach]

mmoe,,,now you are the BAD GUY,,,lol


Tormachmaster,,,,,tickle that ear and give the drink,I will tell you how to do that with a Vertical Manual mill and a Rotary Table,,,,,,no CAD/CAM neessary

[mmoe]

Tormachmaster, the bottom line is that Bobcad is more what we are saying it is than what you are saying it is, both in capability and price vs. value. You may note in the video that there are more than another half dozen multiaxis strategies available to use for different situations. You also only saw a handful of the options available to control the toolpath. You can lock them in at 3 axis, 4 axis or go full 5 axis if you have the license for it. Yes, you need 4 Axis Mill Pro to access these things, and it doesn't come cheap by hobbyist standards. However, you cannot name another application that has these features for the kind of money Bobcad can be bought for (and it isn't $1400 for any version with multiaxis, most likely due to the cost of the Module Works multiaxis licensing Bobcad has to pay out). How much is MasterCAM with these options? NX? Gibbs? I'm going to conservatively guess 3-4 times as much. We can compare the features favorably, but you can't compare the cost the way you tried to earlier. What that tells me is that Bobcad is in fact not overpriced. Trying to say that Bobcad 4 Axis Pro is getting into MasterCAM money is absurd. Saying that you can do nearly everything you can in MasterCAM with Bobcad is not absurd at all and there are people here with the chops to prove it. Unfortunately, I don't think you can keep up with what some of us are able to do even if you are using NX. The first task you asked about was almost insulting.

All that said, I would love to see Bobcad implement a way to perform an undercut in Equidistant Offset so that licenses of 3 Axis Mill Pro is enough to do that job where a person has no need for 4 axis machining (or the equipment to do it). I'd also like to see a way to do a "Morph Between 2 Curves" sort of toolpath strategy in 3 Axis Mill Pro as well, again without the need for multiaxis. Would I say that 4 Axis Mill Pro is not a good value? No, but perhaps not a good value for 3 axis only applications unless you can utilize those multiaxis strategies a lot. Is 3 Axis Mill Pro not a good value without those features? No, it has more features than the vast majority of software in the price range, so it's hard to complain that those are missing. It would be nice if there was a multiaxis option for 3 Axis Mill Pro that locked it in at 3 axis, but for perhaps an upcharge between 3 Axis Mill Pro and 4 Axis Mill Pro. That would be something I'd be willing to pay for. There is a gap between 3 Axis Mill Pro and 4 Axis Mill Pro that is quite large in terms of cost and not many of us are going to see the extra expense pay off often enough in 3 axis work to justify it. I only get those jobs once every 3 months or so. If you figure 4 jobs per year, and 2 years between upgrades, you're looking at an awful lot of extra expense for 8 programs that can use these features. It's just cheaper to do a workaround even factoring in extra time spent.

If I had a 4 Axis machine, I'd think 4 Axis Mill Pro is a steal for the work you could do with it. Really, show me something better for the same price. For that matter, show me something that is comparable for the same price. I don't think you can or will.

[jrmach]

better yet,,Tormachmaster,,you used BoB for 20 years you said,,,,,apparently you have not unlocked the power yet,,,,quit crying,,,,join the forum under another alias,,,and ask questions so you can use what you own to its fullest

[Tkamsker]

even a new nick we will notice the tone i guess but i liked the mixture between education tension and after all verry entertaining thank you


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[Tormachmaster]

Tormachmaster, the bottom line is that Bobcad is more what we are saying it is than what you are saying it is, both in capability and price vs. value. You may note in the video that there are more than another half dozen multiaxis strategies available to use for different situations. You also only saw a handful of the options available to control the toolpath. You can lock them in at 3 axis, 4 axis or go full 5 axis if you have the license for it. Yes, you need 4 Axis Mill Pro to access these things, and it doesn't come cheap by hobbyist standards. However, you cannot name another application that has these features for the kind of money Bobcad can be bought for (and it isn't $1400 for any version with multiaxis, most likely due to the cost of the Module Works multiaxis licensing Bobcad has to pay out). How much is MasterCAM with these options? NX? Gibbs? I'm going to conservatively guess 3-4 times as much. We can compare the features favorably, but you can't compare the cost the way you tried to earlier. What that tells me is that Bobcad is in fact not overpriced. Trying to say that Bobcad 4 Axis Pro is getting into MasterCAM money is absurd. Saying that you can do nearly everything you can in MasterCAM with Bobcad is not absurd at all and there are people here with the chops to prove it. Unfortunately, I don't think you can keep up with what some of us are able to do even if you are using NX. The first task you asked about was almost insulting.

All that said, I would love to see Bobcad implement a way to perform an undercut in Equidistant Offset so that licenses of 3 Axis Mill Pro is enough to do that job where a person has no need for 4 axis machining (or the equipment to do it). I'd also like to see a way to do a "Morph Between 2 Curves" sort of toolpath strategy in 3 Axis Mill Pro as well, again without the need for multiaxis. Would I say that 4 Axis Mill Pro is not a good value? No, but perhaps not a good value for 3 axis only applications unless you can utilize those multiaxis strategies a lot. Is 3 Axis Mill Pro not a good value without those features? No, it has more features than the vast majority of software in the price range, so it's hard to complain that those are missing. It would be nice if there was a multiaxis option for 3 Axis Mill Pro that locked it in at 3 axis, but for perhaps an upcharge between 3 Axis Mill Pro and 4 Axis Mill Pro. That would be something I'd be willing to pay for. There is a gap between 3 Axis Mill Pro and 4 Axis Mill Pro that is quite large in terms of cost and not many of us are going to see the extra expense pay off often enough in 3 axis work to justify it. I only get those jobs once every 3 months or so. If you figure 4 jobs per year, and 2 years between upgrades, you're looking at an awful lot of extra expense for 8 programs that can use these features. It's just cheaper to do a workaround even factoring in extra time spent.

If I had a 4 Axis machine, I'd think 4 Axis Mill Pro is a steal for the work you could do with it. Really, show me something better for the same price. For that matter, show me something that is comparable for the same price. I don't think you can or will.

I like your response but still believe that is is priced a bit high.

[Tormachmaster]

mmoe,,,now you are the BAD GUY,,,lol


Tormachmaster,,,,,tickle that ear and give the drink,I will tell you how to do that with a Vertical Manual mill and a Rotary Table,,,,,,no CAD/CAM neessary

Hey don't get to cocky yet there JR I gave the simplest thing I could find to see what version was being used now project a tool path to a wall using a solid pin as a projection vector. Oh can you do that one?

[jrmach]

No,,,you go away now,,,,,,I think everyone is satisfied you can't do anything and are just looking for free advise for questions you are not man enough to ask yourself.

[mmoe]

I like your response but still believe that is is priced a bit high.

Your evidence? I'm sure that it is priced too high to justify for a toy for the average home tinkerer. What kind of business plan would it be for Bobcad to price products for that market without accounting for the small shop market? There will be some hobbyists who pay it because they want what they can do with it and can't get those features anywhere else for less.

If Bobcad's 4 Axis Mill Pro were too expensive, it wouldn't get purchased. There are many shops that need the features it offers and can justify the expense because they make money using it. For myself, the multiaxis version is a bit too expensive for using on a 3 axis machine on the jobs that I do. 3 Axis Mill Pro is an excellent bargain for the professional using a 3 axis machine and can do 99% of the jobs I get without any work arounds, so the extra money for multiaxis is something I have not been able to justify given that I won't get the return on investment equivalent to the cost outlay. The return on investment for 3 Axis Mill Pro is probably somewhere around 100 to 1, but I'd only expect to get a return of around 2-1 or 3-1 on the additional expense to go to multiaxis, If I had a 4 axis machine and did a lot of 4 axis work, I know I'd have no issue purchasing multiaxis since there would be a significant return on investment. It's not the price, it's the application that determines what the value is to each person/shop.

From my perspective, and using your logic, Mastercam and NX are too expensive for what they offer. Why? Because I can get the job done with Bobcad for a fraction of the price. Sounds like a familiar argument doesn't it. But it doesn't make Mastercam or NX any less valuable to those who can afford it and justify using it to make a living. A small shop simply can't afford to spend 4 times as much on software just because. They have to see it produce more income than it expends. Bobcad is good enough that it is nearly impossible for the small shop to recover a better profit from Mastercam or NX. Outside of Fusion, there aren't any products that are going to net out at zero for the hobbyist, so I'm afraid you are out of luck.

To me, it sounds like by "priced too high", you really mean, "I can't justify the expense". Those are two different things and Bobcad is not responsible for your financial welfare. If you were a small shop, instead of a hobbyist, you would probably have a very different view of what Bobcad's cost reflects in the market, especially when you go to demo Mastercam, NX, GIbbs, OneCNC, etc. and get their pricing back. Do you really think none of us have made those comparisons with quotes in our hands? As I said earlier, I owned OneCNC, which did no more than Bobcad for 3 times as much, and is considered a budget alternative to Mastercam (check out their marketing). I lost more in a restocking fee to OneCNC when their software wouldn't output code for my machine than I pay for a license of 3 Axis Mill Pro, and way more than Bobcad's current promotion for upgrading that same seat. You can talk all you want about price, but it's only talk until you actually make some comparisons. Right now, you aren't comparing it to anything, you have just decided "it's priced too high" without any supporting evidence.

[lenny09]

Slightly different and maybe not as simple as Solidworks or AutoCad but it is failry simple to make a drawing in BobcadCam. Especially if you've become proficient with the software.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gFPmWZIg1c

[magicniner]

Hey don't get to cocky yet there JR

It's quite evident who's being cocky here, and it isn't jrmach, having produced no work of your own and provided no useful assistance to anyone you have no credibility here, Google search for all the "challenges" you like, it won't give you any credibility.
You are doing a very good job indeed of making yourself look like a Walter Mitty character who's day job is nothing to do with CAD/CAM, it doesn't help that the only CAD work you've posted is sloppy, lacklustre and demonstrates a staggering level of ineptitude.
You might yet prove everyone wrong but I don't think you will/can, I have $1 on it with a friend and expect to win ;-)

[The Engine Guy]

I like your response but still believe that is is priced a bit high.

I respect that you have and are entitled to an opinion regarding the BobCAD-CAM software, personally I do think it is worth the price as I do make money using it, had I purchased a much more expensive software I certainly would not have done as well that`s for sure.

Yes, I do agree that the CAD side may not be the best in the field but it works fine for me, in the area I do most of my work which is 3D Mold stuff I usually get the model sent to me from nearly all our customers in either IGES or STEP format so all I need from the CAD side is the ability to get to the surfaces/wireframe I need to machine and that is pretty easy in BobCAD.

On the few jobs where we are doing the designs from scribbled sketches etc I haven`t yet had any major issues although it can take a bit longer than a dedicated CAD software and I do use one from time to time if it is a very big design job where time is critical.

Since May this year I have been on a Beta run with Onshape (Perhaps you have too?) which is growing in stature by leaps and bounds, Beta is now over and it is off and running, the three really great things about it are one the price, it is FREE for limited number of private documents but otherwise it is fully functional, two it is accessed via the internet so no need to have multiple "seats" in multiple locations (Some might say that is a downside) and three it is always the latest version you are using, no updates to download and pay for every time a change is made to the software, a fourth plus that as it is running on their servers the user doesn`t need a high end expensive PC although a good internet connection does help

https://www.onshape.com/

So, a summary, I haven`t been using BobCAD as long as you, I only go back to V17 but I have watched and used BobCAD as it has grown into something that has been built in a pretty short time frame compared to many other softwares so I would expect them to have better functionality and it really is all down to "horses for courses" It is working for thousands of users, the vast majority of whom are using it to make a living so come on friend it can`t really be that bad can it ? ? ?

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[jrmach]

Oh no... Continue please! So far you posted a picture of a lego with no toolpath and a lollipop cutter in it? lol

Please, at least put some effort into it.... You seem to think you have really given everyone here a "shellacking"? lol...

Here's your teaser:

Attachment 302018

Notice the beautifully lead lollipop? All it needed was to add the horizontal-tangential arc lead with params....

Attachment 302020

Still in 3 axis mode myself.....

Your pics show nothing so far... No toolpath. No leads... Just your diminishing word and crappy mouth about your greatness so far.....

Come on man.. Really let me have it!

Tormachmaster 0

Burrboy 1



The Burn Priceless

[lenny09]

[QUOTE=The Engine Guy;1807440]I respect that you have and are entitled to an opinion regarding the BobCAD-CAM software, personally I do think it is worth the price as I do make money using it, had I purchased a much more expensive software I certainly would not have done as well that`s for sure.

Yes, I do agree that the CAD side may not be the best in the field but it works fine for me, in the area I do most of my work which is 3D Mold stuff I usually get the model sent to me from nearly all our customers in either IGES or STEP format so all I need from the CAD side is the ability to get to the surfaces/wireframe I need to machine and that is pretty easy in BobCAD.

On the few jobs where we are doing the designs from scribbled sketches etc I haven`t yet had any major issues although it can take a bit longer than a dedicated CAD software and I do use one from time to time if it is a very big design job where time is critical.

Since May this year I have been on a Beta run with Onshape (Perhaps you have too?) which is growing in stature by leaps and bounds, Beta is now over and it is off and running, the three really great things about it are one the price, it is FREE for limited number of private documents but otherwise it is fully functional, two it is accessed via the internet so no need to have multiple "seats" in multiple locations (Some might say that is a downside) and three it is always the latest version you are using, no updates to download and pay for every time a change is made to the software, a fourth plus that as it is running on their servers the user doesn`t need a high end expensive PC although a good internet connection does help

https://www.onshape.com/

So, a summary, I haven`t been using BobCAD as long as you, I only go back to V17 but I have watched and used BobCAD as it has grown into something that has been built in a pretty short time frame compared to many other softwares so I would expect them to have better functionality and it really is all down to "horses for courses" It is working for thousands of users, the vast majority of whom are using it to make a living so come on friend it can`t really be that bad can it ? ? ?



Onshape , Looks Good. How has your experience with the software been so far?

[The Engine Guy]

Onshape , Looks Good. How has your experience with the software been so far?

All positive so far

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[lenny09]

All positive so far

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

Good to hear I am going to download a free trial as soon as I can. Is it similar to Solidworks?

[The Engine Guy]

Good to hear I am going to download a free trial as soon as I can. Is it similar to Solidworks?

There isn`t anything to download, all you need to do is go to the site and create an account and you will be able to use the software fully functional for free, there is no demo/free trial, it is free to low users (Limited to 5 private documents) and yes it is very like Solidworks which isn`t really surprising considering that the people behind Onshape are some of the original Solidworks Team

Get an account and enjoy yourself creating some great Models, there are a lot of examples known as "Public Documents" that you can look at, it is really pretty good

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro: