[paulC]

Well I have been thinking about purchasing a laser for quite some time now.
Initially I was looking at starting with one of the cheap lasers to get started with.
After watching the issues that others have had with these cheap lasers I have found a few things out about these cheap machines.
It appears the laser manufactures in China are a bit like the clone PC builders we have seen here for many years.
They simply purchase the parts and assemble them. The resulting machine is dependant on the quality of the parts they source from the larger parts manufacturers.
So most of the so called manufactures are producing machines that are almost identical. Something that appears to be borne out with the support issues I've seen people have ( Same problems, different companies and components that looks identical).
Post sales support seems to be the most critical factor in differentiating the companies.
The chinese will go out of their way to meet a perceived market. This can be to the detriment of a quality product. They may recomend that you purchase a better model but if you choose to buy the cheap one they will happily provide the lemon you requested. Its your choice after all as far as they are concerned. There are not the same laws to protect the customer in China so they are not concerned that they may have to refund the customer. And at the end of the day they can justify to themselves that it was your choice to purchase a cheap product when they offered better.

With this in mind I have decided to risk all and try to purchase a better quality machine.

I did some comparison of machines and price with the dealers that have featured in other posts.
I have decided to place my order with Xu Haixiang known here as hkxy.

[paulC]

HKXY is just a small guy that has two fitters working for him.
He has developed the laser building as a sideline to his model aircraft business.
Or the Model aircraft are a sideline to his laser business. I'm not sure which.
He makes aircraft model and uses lasers for this.
He's been building lasers for 10 years.

The price I have been quoted by him compares favorably with similar machines from other manufacturers.
He has been busy trying to warn members about the cheap lasers and that there are a lot of cheats out there. So I'm giving him a chance to prove himself.
This laser project is a hugh gamble for me. I hope to start a business using it.

[paulC]

HKXY builds to order. He does not have prebuilt stock items available.
The machine I have asked him to build is:
L16090-60W: with Elevator table and Honeycomb surface.
This is a 60 Watt laser with 600mm x 900mm working area.
He tells me it will have all safety features including
Emergency stop.
Interlocks
limit switches
Water flow monitor.
Fire alarm.
Red alignment laser.

He has given be a build time of 45 days however he says this is the maximum time and it may be ready much earlier.
I am arranging shipping myself. I have a friend that reqularly imports goods from China and I'm getting him to arrange shipping and customs clearance.

I'll keep you posted on our progress.
Paul

[greybeard]

Good luck with the project Paul.
You should certainly be thanked by others for posting your experience as it unfolds. A lot of info is posted here, much being lost in translation, but a clear step by step report will be good to read, and it will form a useful public service to all contemplating a simillar step.
I would be looking at going the self build route, based on importing just a tube, so your info will give me a bench mark to compare possible costs.
John

[txcowdog]

CNCAdmin did a self build with import tubes and is now having problems with the original tube and the spares he bought. Unfortunately the guy he bought the tubes from gave him the finger when asked to stand behind his tubes.

[greybeard]

Ooh nasty, and painful too.

[hkxy]

Hello,paulC
I will abide by our agreement.

[coleong]

I feel you should order some spare parts together with the machine.

It would be much safer to pack for example a laser tube together with the machine. Since the weight is heavy, during transportation there is no chance that the spare part will roll from side to side and or rough handling by the courier if send in by courier.

Of course the above is only true if the packing is done properly and the handling is not done by apes.

[Craig3010]

I feel you should order some spare parts together with the machine.

My thoughts exactly! And make sure you can find someone in advance here that can do maintenance on it. It would also be a good idea to visit some of their other customers here and see how their machines are working out before you take the huge risk.

[cncadmin]

CNCAdmin did a self build with import tubes and is now having problems with the original tube and the spares he bought. Unfortunately the guy he bought the tubes from gave him the finger when asked to stand behind his tubes.

Yep, unbelievable, and I have bought a few tubes from him, and was told they have a 1 yr warranty. Steve Luo be weary.

We have good news since our engineers have a solution in changing a new
type of electrode which may decrease the electric discharge.

He admits that they have a problem, but won't stand buy it.

[coleong]

On the maintenance of these machines specifically for belt driven models, the maintenance is easy, just:-

1. check and adjust belt tension
2. clean mirror and lens, replace when it is patches starts to appear on the surface
3. check beam alignment and adjust if necessary
4. check water quality and replace when necessary

If you are good with your hands the above is not a problem at all.

On the electronics side you cannot do much except to clean up the PCB when dust accumulate on the surface.

Lastly check the cooling fans and clean when necessary

I feel it best to install a flow sensor on the water cooling circuit if it is not install in the first place (to prevent damage to the laser tube).
Can somebody recommend me where to buy a low cost flow sensor.

[fractaledge3]

Hello,

Take a look to my post :
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...852#post231852
Also I think it is better if you can masseur the output coupler temperature than water flow, because in my case the cooling ring at the output coupler was separated from the tube end.

[coleong]

Hi fractaledge3,

I am thinking, is it possible to be caused by quality problem?

If the output coupler is in good condition, the tempreture should not be too high. Only when you have a dirty output coupler , the tempreture will rise very fast.
The other reason could be reflection when attempting to cut metallic items.

I was looking at my tube and does not seem to find out how they glue up the two parts together.

[paulC]

I feel you should order some spare parts together with the machine.

It would be much safer to pack for example a laser tube together with the machine. Since the weight is heavy, during transportation there is no chance that the spare part will roll from side to side and or rough handling by the courier if send in by courier.

Of course the above is only true if the packing is done properly and the handling is not done by apes.

Yes. I have asked for a spare laser tube, set of 3 mirrors and a spare lense with the order. I have also ordered 2 pair of saftey glasses. I have seen the posts on normal saftey glasses stopping the emmission from co2 lasers, but would prefer to run a safe as I can.
Paul

[coleong]

The engraving lens is just above the workpiece and in my opion it best to order maybe another two piece.

The courier charges will cost more than the price of the len.

I have seen the difference in quality between the cheaper safety glass and the more expansive version. The good quality version is very sturdy plus protection on the side of the frame and the cheaper version is basically made from plastic.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Good luck Paul,

hkxy seems like a good guy on the zone, hope this proves to be true.

If all goes well and you give a good report I hope it generates some more business for him from here, as mentioned above, he has been trying very hard to warn people of the dangers/unreliability of cheap chinese lasers.

Hope he proves to be the more reliable Chinese seller.

L8rs.

[paulC]

Good luck Paul,

hkxy seems like a good guy on the zone, hope this proves to be true.

If all goes well and you give a good report I hope it generates some more business for him from here, as mentioned above, he has been trying very hard to warn people of the dangers/unreliability of cheap chinese lasers.

Hope he proves to be the more reliable Chinese seller.

L8rs.

That is precisely the reason I decided on going with him.
He has tried his best to help the members here dispite the language difficulties. You have to admire his tenacity when it comes to language. I would have given up trying to communicate long ago if the rolls were reversed. He does by the way, say he has a medical student that can help him with translations. But only at the weekends.

[dragoneye]

Paul,

Just a note on buying a chineese laser that if you are aware of this it will ease the pain when you have a problem.

I have two lasers which i imported in from China and i ordered the 60W with a cutting area of 1200 x 800 with honeycoombe cutting platform and motorised up and down engraving table with rotary attachment, also spare tubes and spare mirrors which are the parts you will need to have a chance to keep a running business The bad First if you have a problem such as i had , you may find you waste days and then weeks with a non working laser and losing all confidence in the fantastic company when selling they cannot do enough for you, that will not be the case when you are trying to have a part replaced which cost 25% of the machine , my advice for this is you forget about any garranties you think you have if you read the posts on this site every one seems to have the same problem so forget it and it cant hurt you later on.
In australia i found no one who was prepaired to service these machines but were only to eager to want to come and look at how they work so when you take a good look at it you will see there isnt really much to to be replaced and if youre clever you will have spares ready to go from the manufacters who will deal direct,
NOW THE GOOD,

To buy my laser in Oz for what i have would have been $48000 for the same machine then the xtras nearer to $70,000 , i paid $7000 delivered with all the things i said before but they come with the cheap crappy tubes that break,
cost of tube in their machine $8000 will last for six years mine $250 been working for nearly a year now and works for 8-12 hours a day every day do the maths the only thing i do is use deminrelized water and change it every three days and clean and check mirror alighnment and i cut 9mm ply and 12 acylic with ease , the better you aline the ray path the better the cut thicker materials can be cut all in one pass YOU must have air with your machine or things will go up in flames very important i do all type of work mainly cutting but when i use laser thin for signs i can engrave the label and then kiss cut through the adhesive and not penetrate the release paper right across the 1200 by 800 area i would like to see the better quality machines do this, SO for summing up remember you can afford to buy a machine from China which wont hurt the pocket and have ten for the price of one although the only problem i encountered was the driver card stop working twice, i found a electronic speacialist that completely re soldered the card as they told me the Chinese put them through a wave machine which can miss some of the joints and crack up in time but since they did this not a problem , If you go in with your eyes open you wont have nasty suprises later and when i buy my next machine it will come from China as i know cash is hard to come by but what if you brought the expensive machine your have to put it on a mortgage
I hope your experiance with buying yours is as good as mine was and if you send your email address i will show you how to save a few hundred dollars on getting youir laser to you , you may already know this but if not email to dragonengravings.com.au

All the best to you
Trevor

[paulC]

Thanks for the warning Trevor.
The price is the reason for me to go with a Chinese laser also. I've done a bit of research on alternatives and the cheapest I could find for a similar sized machine was a kit from the USA for $25,000US
The cheapest thing I could find to get started was a 10 watt laser for $8,000US. Just dosen't compare price wise.
One thing I neglected to mention is that I was an electronics technician in a past life. I still have quite a bit of gear including an ocilliscope and a high voltage probe that goes to 25kv, so I'm hoping that I can sort out most problems myself, providing I can get parts of course.
On the deminerilised water do you buy it in or have you set up some sort of distillation plant and how big a reservoir do you use.

Paul

[coleong]

For the cooling water you can can in bulk for example 5 litre bottle in the supermarket, in my country 5 litre distill drinking water cost below one US dollar.

Normally there is a choice between RO water and distill water BUT DO NOT use mineral water.

You can check the water quality by using a "conductivity meter".

Since your are a electronic guy like i do it is good. Lasers are not that diffcult to repair or service except to take note of the dangers present (high voltages and invisible beam).