[jacarpen]

I hope some of you guys can help me fix my screw up. I purchased a CNC Jr. mill from CNC masters almost a year ago. Since then they have replaced the controller or parts of it 3 times. Now it is messing up again. I only run aluminum on this machine and generally run the cutting speed at about 10-15ipm. Now it will cut 5 or 6 parts just fine, then it gets a mind of its own and starts doing crazy things. When it does that I reset it and try to send it back home and it wont go, so I have to shut it down completely, including the pc and leave it off for a couple of hours before trying again. I know I screwed up purchasing the machine in the first place, but now I need to fix it before I bite the bullet and buy me a Hurco VM-2. I run a lot of production on this little CNC Jr. and am trying to pay off the machine still so I was wondering if anyone has tried to upgrade the controller or use a different software to run it with. I was thinking of using Mach3, but want testimonials before I screw this up worse.

Thanks
James Carpenter
JJ & G Machine Works LLC.
Fort Worth, TX.

:withstupi

[Ron111]

James,
you are on the right track. If you can get the spec's of your stepper motor, you can build a controller using geico stepper drivers (they run around $115 each) and with mach3 you can be up and running, I have used mach2 and mach3 and around here there are alot of folks using it. But the real question will be to find out the particulars of your stepper motors as far as the current and voltage and build your power supply and controller to suit. Of course you may have to rewrite your code. There are a couple of good tutorials around that will show you and help explain how to build the power supply and so on.

Ron

[SyilAmerica]

Agree. Mach 3 is the easiest play to start. That sounds like it will solve a lot of issues right off the bat. It may take a little changing around to get the G-Code to work the way it did before, but with all the features you will be happy in the end.

Also, you may be picking up noise in the PP cable from the computer. How is is routed? Around any large power transformers or noisey electrical stuff?

[jacarpen]

I think it may be in that 9-pin cable, but those things are dang near obsolete now. I haven't had the chance to look at the Mach3 that much or read on it, but was wondering if it works off of the same kind of port or off of a USB? Also why couldn't I use the existing power supply and drivers or at least the power supply since I know it works with the machine. I don't really have time to be rebuilding a bunch of stuff. Thanks for the replies.

[massajamesb]

There is a plethora of Mach3 users on the Zone here, and of all the people I know who use Mach, they are all quite satisfied. IMO, it will get you back up and cutting better than you were. I don't use Mach, only because buying the computer to run Mach would have cost more than I had in my entire machine.

The only problem I forsee is that their controller program works through your USB port, whereas Mach is a parallel port controller program. You would probably have to buy a different electronical set up (i.e. drivers, breakout board, etc.) to use Mach.

You must have either Windows 2000 or Xp to run Mach, and it is recommended that you have a fair amount of processor speed to boot.

You might consider borrowing another Pc to test out the Cnc Master controller program on. If it is going banannas on you now, my guess would be something screwy about the Pc. If you use another Pc, and no problems arise, then buy another Pc. If it acts the same, then it is the Cnc drivers, quite possibly.

Your statement that they have replaced/repaired the controller before, do you mean the driver box that goes to the motors, or the Pc software?

I would honestly suggest just dropping the money to get Mach3 software, and a good dedicated CAM program, get three Gecko 201, 202, or 203's, a breakout board, and a power supply. I would be willing to bet you are able to cut your parts a lot faster, and the whole operation will go a lot smoother. I believe it will feel like a completely different machine.

Going this route will set you back a bit, depending on the Pc you have now and whether it will support Mach, and whether you have to invest in a better Pc.
It may sound like a bit of a hassle, but it will be worth it. You may spend anywhere from 500 up to 1500 dollars to go this route, but you will have a guaranteed winner on your hands.
After all, how much is a new machine from *Manufacturer XXYY*?

[jacarpen]

I have the the controller that take the serial 9-pin connector from the computer, before they upgraded to the usb. They have replaced parts in the controller (driver) box that connects to the motors. The PC I have has plenty of power and resources to run the Mach, but I just need to know if it will work with the box that came with the machine, because I believe that it is in that cable or the software.

[massajamesb]

Ahhh. Gotcha. On their website, I believe they had referred to it as the USB, but perhaps that is on a newer model.

Mach uses the parallel port, nothing else. Your driver setup is designed (apparently) to work only with their software (and a serial port, at that)
There is more than likely a way to make the drivers work, but if it has already given you this much trouble and been replaced or repaired before, then it might very well do it again. If you modify or change anything, or even run a different software than theirs, then it is quite likely they will not give you any warranty or much in the way of service if you have another problem. Hence the suggestion to upgrade to different components.

You can always assemble the new components while running the machine as is, and then take a weekend to install it all and get it up and running. That way you have no downtime, no lost business.

I don't want to come off as pushy, moreover it is your machine and your time and money. I am just trying to give helpful suggestions that I know have worked for others in similar situations.

[jacarpen]

Not being pushy at all, I appreciate the input very much as I don't have the time to read through all of the knowledge posted here. So if I upgrade the drivers do you think I can use the existing power supply?

[massajamesb]

It is quite possible, though a power supply is not a expensive item at all, at least not until you get up past 30 or 40 volts. I would imagine you could probably salvage the one there, with a little bit of elbow grease.

[SyilAmerica]

Jacarpen,

I can fully appreciate the fact that you don't want to spend money and most importantly time on the solution. This is the way that would be most effective:

1. Having the supplier troubleshoot the problem and provide a simple, low cost solution.

2. If they are not willing or don't have a low cost solution then you are faced with 10-20 hours of time to refit and a possible $200-$500 outlay for the Mach route.

Wish you lived closer or I'd help you out. Sorry. Good luck with it.

[pastera]

If the existing controller uses stand alone step&direction drives for the motors, then you will really only need a breakout board and some cabling to run Mach or EMC

Aaron

[Dan Mauch]

One of my customers had a cnc master control unit. He was unhappy with the software and the control unit. He bought one of my control units and is very happy. He decided to give me his CNC masters control unit. I was surprsied to see that it used the G201 in unmarked cans. I was also disappointed to see a few techincal issues that could lead to the problems listed by the orignator of this thread.
1. The internal filer cap is way to small it was only 1000 UF
2. The drives use a common buss for power + and power Ground.
3. The ribbon cable from the power supply to the main board was way to thin a gauge since the drives were set up for 5A per phase.
4. The transformer did not have enough current to supply three motors running simultaneously.

While not a problem it does use the serial port through an interface that then sends step and direction signals to the drivers.

I think the soultion would be to remove the 3/4 drivers form the motherboard and to wire each drive seperately using the star configuration for the power. I would also recommend wiring the step and direction to a parallel port and use Mach3.
Just my opinion

Dan Mauch

[jacarpen]

So Dan, you tink I can buy I new break out board with parallel port and use my existing drivers and power supply, just beefing up the wire? Thanks for the input. I am in the process of replacing my PC since it seems to have died on me.

James

[Stepper Monkey]

Wow, if you have geckos in there already, it sounds like pulling them out and building a proper setup around them would be easy and leave you with an awesome system to boot.
Sounds like a higher current power supply might be in order but that is really cheap, and simple.

[ttm2]

I have a cnc master jr also. the older 9 pin cable. I was having the drivers fail. I replacesd them 3 times. By accident I found out that if I isolated the controller box from the machine that my problems were gone. I mounted the controller with rubber gromment and nylon screws. It is worth a try!!!!

[cjdavis618]

So Dan, you tink I can buy I new break out board with parallel port and use my existing drivers and power supply, just beefing up the wire? Thanks for the input. I am in the process of replacing my PC since it seems to have died on me.

James

I'll be the first to tell you that I know nothing about the CNC side of this. But I do know the computer side and have dealt with PC and server problems for the last 20 years.

I find it weird that the cnc system has had parts changed so often and yet no solution has been found. With you saying that the pc died, I am thinking it may have been your PC that was causing the problem instead.


Do you use this PC for anything else at all. Internet, e-mail etc?

It would not be out of character for spy ware or viruses to tie into the serial port drivers in the attempt to cause havoc. While this may not be the case, there are a multitude of hardware malfunctions that can cause weird problems and symptoms on PCs. Power supply failure being #1 and lack of adequate cooling being #2

[Dan Mauch]

I bnotcied several serious problems with the CNC Master setup.
One the lectroytic filer cap is way too small for the amount of current drawn. Second, the ribbon cable for power is inadequate, third the use of common bus for power and ground violate several rules of using drivers.
You could salvage the drivers and the transfromer but everything else would have to be redone.

Dan

I'll be the first to tell you that I know nothing about the CNC side of this. But I do know the computer side and have dealt with PC and server problems for the last 20 years.

I find it weird that the cnc system has had parts changed so often and yet no solution has been found. With you saying that the pc died, I am thinking it may have been your PC that was causing the problem instead.


Do you use this PC for anything else at all. Internet, e-mail etc?

It would not be out of character for spy ware or viruses to tie into the serial port drivers in the attempt to cause havoc. While this may not be the case, there are a multitude of hardware malfunctions that can cause weird problems and symptoms on PCs. Power supply failure being #1 and lack of adequate cooling being #2

[cjdavis618]

I see. So this most likley is a case of bad design. The Pc may have an effect as well, and these design issues will only amplify that.

[Little Skippy]

Does anyone sell an upgrade kit or anything for the CNC master control unit, something with instructions a machinist could follow? When it comes to the computer and control side of things I start to feel out of my league...

I too am having issues with the CNC masters Jr. Mill. I run a few parts and my work offset has shifted enough to start leaving sawcuts on the periphery of my parts... I am milling a whole mm off each side!

I too would like to get this thing paid off so I can get a Hurco or Haas. I'd like a Maatsuura, but one step at a time

[Stepper Monkey]

It sounds like the core of a really top-notch system is actually in there (the Geckos), even if they are crippled by poor design and cheap components surrounding them.

It would be very, very easy to just gut everything out of the controller box and toss everything but the Gecko cans themselves. By purchasing both a parallel breakout meant for Geckos and a quality power supply, simply put them all in a new box (not physically attached to the mill itself!) using proper wire gauges. The vast majority of the cost would be in the Geckos, the rest is rather trivial - like maybe a hundred bucks or so. Then you would have a top-notch, no excuses controller that runs on a parallel port.
As for wiring them up, check the Gecko forum and thier website. Mariss is awesome at support and there is already a lot of very good info out there to make it painless, I don't need to reapeat it all here. It is pretty straightforward though.