[lcvette]

It is available with MANY options.. Glass scales being one of them, as well as several controller options including Fanuc, Siemens, etc... Obviously the cost jumps up significantly with the controller options.

Higher quality ballscrews are also available. Again the cost jumps considerably. They use C5 dual ballnut screws as their base which is what I am having installed, but I will ask what the cost for a higher grade screw set would be and report back.

I will also be documenting the entire process in a new thread for those who have considered ordering a machine from China. Perhaps it will illuminate some of the pros and cons as well as associated costs both in shipping. Customs clearance. Options for transporting the machine after arrival at Port and unloading and setup. This is a large machine for me so quite different from the smaller machines I have purchased and I am sure will have a new set of obstacles. I am very interested to hear your advice and experiences as well, perhaps it will help me side step a few unforseen uh oh..lol

Chris

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[RCaffin]

It will be especially interesting to see the actual performance figures once you have the machine bedded down. Do they match the claims?
(I am not suggesting they won't, just that actual user measurements are so much better than vendor claims.)

Cheers
Roger

[lcvette]

Roger,

Not sure I follow, are you asking if they will back their claims up as if I test and it falls short?

Chris

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[RCaffin]

Hi Chris

No, that was not what I meant. Instead :
They claim a backlash of less than X. What do you measure?
They claim a zero stability of Y. What do you measure?
And so on.
It's just nice to know how delivered performance compares with claimed performance - but you can only get that by actual measurements.

Cheers
Roger

[lcvette]

Ah yes, plan on going through the machine completely and testing g all aspects to see what it is capable of.!!

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[lens42]

For the OP's spec'd work area, a Tormach 770 or maybe even a 440 would work nicely. I got a ready-to-rock 770 set-up with power draw bar and home-rolled enclosure for about $12k from Tormach to my door. If you compare paper specs and dimensions, there are probably other choices that look like better deals, but if you want to make chips soon rather than spend several months building, fixing, tweeking your "better deal", then Tormach is a very solid choice. I'm a hobbiest, but I didn't want to add machine fixing time to an already-long (for me) cnc learning curve.


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[lcvette]

For the OP's spec'd work area, a Tormach 770 or maybe even a 440 would work nicely. I got a ready-to-rock 770 set-up with power draw bar and home-rolled enclosure for about $12k from Tormach to my door. If you compare paper specs and dimensions, there are probably other choices that look like better deals, but if you want to make chips soon rather than spend several months building, fixing, tweeking your "better deal", then Tormach is a very solid choice. I'm a hobbiest, but I didn't want to add machine fixing time to an already-long (for me) cnc learning curve.


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All good points, however most who have already gone the hobby build or Tormach/novakon route have come to realize the short comings of these machines. So the next step is searching for a solution to achieve something a little more robust that is also relatively easy to get up and running.

If I wanted to get this machine up and running with steppers, it would be a really quick setup I'm sure with mach3. Being its servo powered with encoders I am willing to out the time in for the conversion to Linux CNC. For someone familiar with Linux CNC it shouldn't be more then a few days of setup. Hell you could build a control box with all dB type connectors wired to the specs of the servo drive pinouys and have it pretty much plug and play when the machine arrived with just some calibration setup to do once it hit the floor and had power.

The tool changer is a bonus as none of the other machines will have the tool changer and if they did the total price would be outrageous for such a small mill. Also industrial tool changer generally use ladder type PLC logic and this I imagine can also be setup and almost ready for fine tuning once the machine arrived.

Chris

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[burdickjp]

I just got done with a linuxcnc installation on my sieg kx3. I'm willing to help once you're to that point.

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[RCaffin]

If I wanted to get this machine up and running with steppers, it would be a really quick setup I'm sure with mach3. Being its servo powered with encoders I am willing to out the time in for the conversion to Linux CNC.

Are you implying that Mach3 only works with stepper motors, and that you have to go to LinuxCNC if you have servos with encoders?

IF so, I have to point out that you are seriously mistaken. My machine has industrial DC brushed servo motors with encoders on all 3 axes, and is running Mach3 .062. (But I might be misunderstanding you.)

Cheers
Roger

[lcvette]

I just got done with a linuxcnc installation on my sieg kx3. I'm willing to help once you're to that point.

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Man I will take any help available.. Lol. O will be sure to post up when the time comes!!

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[burdickjp]

Man I will take any help available.. Lol. O will be sure to post up when the time comes!!

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Linux's real time kernel offerings seem to be very picky about the hardware they like. First step is to make sure you have hardware it agrees with.

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[lcvette]

Are you implying that Mach3 only works with stepper motors, and that you have to go to LinuxCNC if you have servos with encoders?

IF so, I have to point out that you are seriously mistaken. My machine has industrial DC brushed servo motors with encoders on all 3 axes, and is running Mach3 .062. (But I might be misunderstanding you.)

Cheers
Roger

Roger,

I am fully aware Mach can run servos on the axis, bit not so much for the spindle. You are limited to a single pulse feedback, while Linux CNC allows for a true spindle servo (which I misquoted previously, this machine has a 5.5kw spindle servo). With Linuxcnc you can do rigid tapping, spindle indexing etc.. Where as with Mach3 it isn't possible unless something has changed in the last year? And Mach 4 is far to new to worry with. Linuxcnc being a true real-time controller because on it operating system and mach3 not, linuxcnc was a pretty clear winner here.

Don't get me wrong use Mach with machstdmill AMD love it now that it's all setup. Bit I have now tried running a Linux machine and there really is no comparison. The Linux machine is just so much smoother in its movements and I have an Ethernet smoothstepper with Mach currently and still it's a huge difference.

Also Linix can utilize glasscales for feedback where mach3 cannot. I don't know how the encoders work with Mach not being real time? Are they actually used in a feedback loop or just to display in the dro?

Are you implying that Mach3 only works with stepper motors, and that you have to go to LinuxCNC if you have servos with encoders?

IF so, I have to point out that you are seriously mistaken. My machine has industrial DC brushed servo motors with encoders on all 3 axes, and is running Mach3 .062. (But I might be misunderstanding you.)

Cheers
Roger

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[lcvette]

Linux's real time kernel offerings seem to be very picky about the hardware they like. First step is to make sure you have hardware it agrees with.

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Yes. I am in my research phase for that while I have about 9-10weeks until the mill is expected to land here at my port.

So I am trying to learn as much as possible between now and then. Looks like Mesa or Pico.. I think I am leaning towards the Mesa side since a majority of the people I have been speaking too are team Mesa..lol. But I am open to get more feedback from the Pico side of things..lol

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[RCaffin]

Hi lcvette

Yes, afaik, Mach3 is still limited to one pulse per rev.
I believe Warp9 have included 'many pulses per rev' on their to-do list, but I have not heard whether it has been done yet. On the other hand, I don't think LinuxCNC supports the ESS yet.

> The Linux machine is just so much smoother in its movements
Could this be due to differences in the handling of CV and corners? I hear that one can get the parameters really wrong here. Or in the slight delay in Mach3 with subroutine calls (which does annoy me)? I am interested.

> Also Linix can utilize glasscales for feedback where mach3 cannot. I don't know how the encoders work with Mach not being real time? Are they actually used in a feedback loop or just to display in the dro?
The issue of glass scales is at least partly a function of the servo driver. Gecko does not allow this (yet), but Galil does. Galil use a motor encoder for P & D, but the glass scale does the I part. You should be able to get some really accurate positioning that way - at a significant price increase of course. Now, if we could get Gecko to handle split/dual feedback and get the price of glass scales down ... whee! You can't usually use the glass scale feedback to control the motor with PID because there is a bit of delay between the motor and the scale, and compensating for that in s-space is more difficult.

Encoders with Mach and an ESS: the Gecko drivers handle all the feedback control. Mach3 just sends the Step pulses to the Geckos. If the Geckos have a problem (like the table running into a brick wall), they fault and tell Mach3 about it via the eStop. Mach3 updates the screen DROs as it sends the pulses out. Yes, that does mean you could have the Mach3 DROs updating but the physical axis not moving ... This tends to produce much weeping.

Cheers
Roger

[burdickjp]

Yes. I am in my research phase for that while I have about 9-10weeks until the mill is expected to land here at my port.

So I am trying to learn as much as possible between now and then. Looks like Mesa or Pico.. I think I am leaning towards the Mesa side since a majority of the people I have been speaking too are team Mesa..lol. But I am open to get more feedback from the Pico side of things..lol

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My intention is Mesa, but right now I'm just running my steppers via a parallel port.
I'm more talking about the real time kernel being picky about what CPU it likes.

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[Tkamsker]

Icevette when the machine arises and You have Problems let me Know only if You go the linuxcnc Route Maybe pathpilot May be a good Route for You Then You should use Mesa .,,,


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[lcvette]

Icevette when the machine arises and You have Problems let me Know only if You go the linuxcnc Route Maybe pathpilot May be a good Route for You Then You should use Mesa .,,,


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Will do!! And thanks for the offer!!


Update:

Regarding upgrading the precision and accuracy, I received word back from the manufacturer. They are happy to upgrade to the next level precision class on the ballscrews, it would bring the specs to the following:

Positioning .01mm (.00039")
Repeatability .008mm (.00031)

Cost to upgrade is $1950.00 usd

So all in all it isn't Too terribly expensive. But it may be something I consider down the road when I need to replace them if/when the time comes. Or possibly as an upgrade if it's needed and finds are more readily available. Until then, these specs are superior to what I am already making parts with which are perfectly OK. The only issue I would like is better tolerances on pocketed cits, but I am curious to see how this machine with the base .02mm and .015mm specs works for making pocketed holes.

Chris

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[SwampDonkey]

It is available with MANY options.. Glass scales being one of them, as well as several controller options including Fanuc, Siemens, etc... Obviously the cost jumps up significantly with the controller options.

Higher quality ballscrews are also available. Again the cost jumps considerably. They use C5 dual ballnut screws as their base which is what I am having installed, but I will ask what the cost for a higher grade screw set would be and report back.

I will also be documenting the entire process in a new thread for those who have considered ordering a machine from China. Perhaps it will illuminate some of the pros and cons as well as associated costs both in shipping. Customs clearance. Options for transporting the machine after arrival at Port and unloading and setup. This is a large machine for me so quite different from the smaller machines I have purchased and I am sure will have a new set of obstacles. I am very interested to hear your advice and experiences as well, perhaps it will help me side step a few unforseen uh oh..lol

Chris

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Sounds like a diamond in the rough. Where did you find this company/ machine? Please PM me if dont feel comfortable posting that info on an open forum. And thanks in advance!

[MrBean_pm]

Yep, truly a nice machine lcvette has discovered, I have pm'ed him for further info as well. I have checked out his thread and it is an impressive machine for the money.

I will order the same, except minus the servos and controls, I have servos and drive controllers already - which was planned for another project, but will be better used with this.

Anyway, have a good one, catch ya later. Thanx for sharing.

Beano

[lixingwen1987]

Luoyang Derun Precision Machine Tool Bearings co.,ltd.

Add: Derun technology area , huaxia road, New technology zone,,Luoyang, Henan

TEL：+86-0379-65112328

FAX: +86-0379-65112392

TEL:+86 17184625318

Email:[email protected]

Web:http://www.DRZbearing.cn
http://www.DRZbearing.com