[mpstech]

Has anybody ever looked into doing a tool change the way some routers do on say a HAAS TM-1 without a tool changer. This would store tools on an unused spot of the table and they could be literaly picked and placed. You would move to a known spot and drop the tool, then move to the next tool and pick it up. Seems like it could be cheaper than $5000.

[AMCTony]

I heard of it being done on a VF-4 when the job required more tools than the changer could hold

[pit202]

I`ve done somthing like this :
http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/3918/dsc03298wc2.jpg
http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/9208/dsc03299bo2.jpg
it worked ! but cheaps flying at tools

--
isn`t is possible to make thumbnails on this forum ?

[Dugg]

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "... but cheaps flying at tools (sad face)

Can you explain this further and can you tell us how you programmed this function?

[DEAN]

Our polish friend is saying that chips flying at tools not in use is a problem. Chips could easily stick to the tapers and when tool change time comes around the results could make you sad. Either way I think he has a great setup there.

[wcbob]

First you need spindle orietation M19 then set a work offset for the location of the tool come down in Z and use M82 Tool Unclamp then feed onto pullstud then and M86 Tool Clamp I would add a dwell G4 P? amount in seconds then feed away.

[pit202]

dean , thanks for translating my poor english
wcbob, I`ve done exacly how you describe this

I have made 8 programs , two programs for 1 tool , first is "tool take" , and the second is "tool leave", you need to replace the oryginal M06 command by P98 O ( and the numbers of tool leave and get next tool ) do not forget to write T(tool) and G43 H(tool), it isn`t very easily but it works.

I got a small video at work, I`ll show it tomorow.

[mpstech]

This is great !
I had forgotten about the m82, m86. Sometimes I don't look far enough and
forget what I really have available.

Isn't M19 optional for any orientation angle but standard for 0 degrees, which is ok for this setup, right ? I mean as long as you set the tool down and pick it up in the same orientation it's ok. I don't have OPTIONAL orientation, so I believe it just goes to zero degrees if M19 is used.

Also it seems like chips are just a small problem. Moving the tool fixture, more chip guarding, or air blast could be used to keep the tool clean.
I think you have already solved the largest pieces of the puzzle.
Can't wait to see the video.

I agree with DEAN this is a great setup.

[pit202]

mpstech, you`re right about spindle orientation , without option you can setup only 0 deg. and this is for changing tools enough. Oh I forgot : my tools stand is so high couse the chips, be careful for the shields.

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1373268/MOV03423.MPG.html

[pit202]

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1373328/MOV03425.MPG.html
http://d.turboupload.com/d/1373305/MOV03427.MPG.html

this small videos are made at oryginaly 5m/min , so changing tool was veeerrryyyy slooowwwlllyyyy .Now I have 10m/min ( it is possible to have 16m/min ) but I have no place for this changer so I don`t use it anymore.

[mpstech]

PIT202
Looks good. Yes, you are right, I can see that there are some things that you must be careful about, as always with cnc. Shields etc could become
an issue.

Also it looks as though the holder may flex (bend )a small amount when the tool is picked up due to the way collet works.
Is it possible drop and pickup Z coord should be different, and flex could be avoided ?
Also I like your adjustable gaurding on the spindle column. I have none.
As usual it looks like you have alot of knowledge and ideas PIT202.

[pit202]

> Also it looks as though the holder may flex (bend )
> a small amount when the tool is picked up due to the way collet works.
> Is it possible drop and pickup Z coord should be different,
> and flex could be avoided ?

no, you can not do anything, this is becouse the M`commands , after pushing or pulling tools there is a small moment of time ( timeout ? ) before the machine goes to next line of Gcode.

[dansutula]

Very well done PIT.
I’ve got a few questions. It appears that your tool holder is plastic, if so, what type?
Do you have a drawings or model of your design that you would be willing to sell or share? Thanks!

[pit202]

this is a normal plastic like PCV , if this helps I got only this file.

[miljnor]

Don't have any pictures but I made a single much like yours.

Two ways I got the chip problem solved is a G4 and a M8 coolant command to wash it while above it.

And the second way is to make a cover that is spring loaded and tilts away from the tools. This is a complicated one because you have to program the column to push it out of the way before dropping in to take/leave the tool.

I believe some industrial routers have these types of covers available multiple tools.

[Al_The_Man]

isn`t is possible to make thumbnails on this forum ?

You can post a JPG if within the right size, use IrfanView to resize if necessary.
Al.

[dansutula]

Thanks for the drawing PIT202!
It will save me a good bit of time if ever I need to make one!

[codyst]

I drew up a design for a local vocational school so they had "ATC" capability on their TM1. Mine was made out of 1/4 steel plate that sat on die springs mounted to posts. The mill would feed down and barely touch the plate before unclamping. Then when it would do a pickup, it would feed down and slightly load the die springs to give positive force back into the spindle before clamping. I also had one replaceable aluminum block for positioning of the tool during the drop off and pickup. I'll do some digging and see if I can find my drawings and post them.

[RDemets]

codyst, we are planning to build "ATC" for our TM-1, since we are located in Belgium, the TM-1 was not aivailable with toolchanger due to CE regulations, so we are very interested in your design.
P.S. Sorry for my bad english