[deadlykitten]

hello, this monitors Z when drilling :

VLMON[1]=2
go left / cut
go right / in front of part
go left / into the part
go left more / cut some more
go right / in front of part
VLMON[1]=0

i change it to :

VLMON[1]=2
go left / cut
go right / in front of part
VLMON[1]=0
VLMON[1]=2
go left / into the part
go left more / cut some more
go right / in front of part
VLMON[1]=0

because, when tool was out from the part. Z axis effort was so big when direction changed, that machine stopped

this behaviour does not always occur, but when it does, machine stops

in my opinion, is just a local maxim that should be ignored

i would fix it like this :

VLMON[1]=2
go left / cut
go right / in front of part
VLMON_DELAY ( this command should ignore local_maxim/variations for "t" milisenconds )
go left / into the part
go left more / cut some more
go right / in front of part
VLMON[1]=0

kindly !

[OkumaWiz]

Are you using the M216 G00 ignore M-code? Are you using G00 instead of G01 for rapid positioning moves? Is this live tooling or not? Is this in Y-axis mode or not?

There is already a load monitor immune time that is an adjustable parameter but it only works when switching from G0 to feed move. This prevents the rapid current spikes from affecting the load monitoring.

Without actual code, trouble shooting it is like trouble shooting a turn signal. It's working, it's not working, it's working, it's not working... ;-)

Best regards,

PS> No hissing!

[deadlykitten]

..

hy, i did not agree at first with your reply from another thread / pls find attach / but after a while it actually ringed a bell / thank you

spikes don't ocure/care about G00 / G01 ... they just exist whenever a movement acceleration changes, like :
....- rapid to feed
....- feed directions

M216 handles 1st line, while code from this thread was in 2nd line

the moment i post it, i did not find it relevant to write all code, but all movements where in G01, and it seems that spike value was greater than cutting value

inside the other thread, from where is the image, spike values were lower than cutting value

i did not use G00 + M216, because there was a drill with 2 inserts, that creates both long + small chips, one type on each insert / flute ... and small chips usually fall of from the flute, when tool is retracted fast/G00, and so they remain inside the hole

so, in this case, i had to break monitoring @ the moment Z feed changed direction, because there was a spike :
VLMON ACTIVE
..cut
..G1 tool out
VLMON INACTIVE
VLMON ACTIVE
..G1 tool back in - starts with spike
..cut continues
..etc

i guess that this means that load_mntrng imune time aplies also at G1/feed start; maybe it not aplies as a controlable parameter ( possible located in Parameters somwhere ), but because of system reaction time ... hmm

[deadlykitten]

in this case :
N1 M216
N2 VLMON ACTIVE
N3 G0 turret comes
N4 G1 cut/drilling Z-100
N5 G0 drill fast to Z3
N6 G0 drill fast to Z-100+0.5
i believe that M216 handles the spikes from N4 start and from N5 start

what about this case :
N1 ( M216 ) ( i guess no more needed )
N2 G0 turret comes
N3 VLMON ACTIVE
N4 G1 cut/drilling Z-100
N5 G1 drill fast to Z3
N6 G1 drill fast to Z-100+0.5
where does the load_mntrg imune time aplies ?

i think only at begining of N4, and not at begining of each movement, so i must use this :
N1 ( M216 ) ( i guess no more needed )
N2 G0 turret comes
N3 VLMON ACTIVE
N4 G1 cut/drilling Z-100
N5 G1 drill fast to Z3
N_ VLMON INACTIVE
N_ VLMON ACTIVE
N6 G1 drill fast to Z-100+0.5
there is also a spike at N5 start, but not as pronounced as the one from N6 start, because N6 line inputs a movement regim change much more pronounced than N5, even they bought, N5 and N6 change Z axis movement sense

so, N5 spike, in some conditions, may not require monitoring process to stop and restart

i met conditiones when N5 actually needed another monitoring process, because tool retract effort was greater than cutting effort, but this is another story ... i just monitored retract movement in another LMadreess, and after a while, because i did not like 2 LMvalues for one cutting process, i used only 1 for bought cutting and retract

kindly !

[OkumaWiz]

Your first sample is the correct one to use. With the M216 active and the G0 moves, the monitoring will automatically be turned off with all rapid moves and will use the immune time every time it switches from G0 to G1 mode thereby ignoring the spikes.

N1 M216 (Load Monitor G00 ignore ON)
N2 VLMON[1]=3 (Activate load monitoring on Part 1, X and Z axis)
N3 G0 Z3 X0 (turret comes - load monitor off)
N4 G1 Z-100 (cut/drilling - load monitor on after .4 sec immune time)
N5 G0 Z3 (Rapid away - load monitor off)
N6 G0 Z-100+0.5 (Rapid IN - load monitor off)
N7 G1 Z-120 (cut/drilling - load monitor on after .4 sec immune time)
N8 G0 Z3 (rapid away to Z3 - load monitor off)

This will also allow a standard drilling/grooving canned cycles G73/G74 and will work properly when a M216 is used.

Best regards,

[tea hole]

There are a series of parameters under you load monitoring parameters so if your immune time seems too low you can bump that.
I believe the default is .4 seconds. That's a bit light in my experience and usually end up around .8.
There's also a lot of other values you can mess with.
Do you use "auto set" for your load monitoring values?

[deadlykitten]

...

hello mr wizard >:D<

1) the way normal behaviour works, surprised me : under VLMON, G0 effort is ignored ? i thought that only peeks from G0 will be ignored ... so only G1 is monitored ? if VLMON max value will be V_max, and this value is reached under G0, than machine won't stop ? i hope not ... a lot of things can go wrong under G0, well, not as much as under G1, but if G0 is ignored under VLMON, than ...

2) particular cases, slow retraction in front, slow reenter the hole, delays :
....drill with 2 inserts
.............chips fall from the flute inside the hole
.............likely to bend during cuting, so they stop at 5D (far as i know), and hole tolerance increases from 2D to 3D; normal drills are 3 5 7/8D, while this type is 2 3 4 5D, because more length comes with more bending
....tool cuts while retracts
....tool must stay a bit more in front of the part:
.............for the coolant to wash chips
.............for spining rotation ( M axis ) to throw away long chips that are stucked on flutes
....omg, how could i forget this : long 8D tools,

- of course i programed all with 1st sample(G0), and each time i hit into something like this i had to change to G1
- i would really loved to always use default G7/etc cycles, but i can't ... i started to program like this because i hit into particular cases part after part :)

i ask again, please, where does the load_mntr imune time aplies ?
G0 turret X0 Z3
VLMON ACTIVE
G1 cut/drilling Z-100
G1 drill fast to Z3
G1 drill fast to Z-100+0.5 ____________ kindly !

[deadlykitten]

...

hello

That's a bit light in my experience and usually end up around .8.
please, why did you go from 0.4 to 0.8 ?

Do you use "auto set" for your load monitoring values?
you got me here how could you psss, my grandma tolds me

when quantity is big, i write them down, and next time i just input them back ... kindly !

[OkumaWiz]

When the machine is in a rapid mode the machine is ALWAYS being monitored by the NC torque limiter which prevents damage to the machine in the event of a collision. It works 10 times faster than a sheer pin and that is why they were eliminated years ago by Okuma. Load monitor values are user defined limits to monitor cutting tools at values that are much lower than the machine is capable of producing. I typically use the Auto Set to capture the values and then run my AUTOSET-FIXR program to automatically correct the values to useable levels. I've tried multiple times to get Okuma to change away from the base x % values they use since for example at a 10% load it will auto set at 10, 11, and 12 which is too tight and at 100% it will set at 100, 110, and 120 which is too loose. My Program changes the values to Base + a fixed value so that you have a 99% chance of success rather than a 99% chance of failure with the Auto Set.

As stated in my previous post, immune time only occurs when switching from G00 to a feed mode. M216 must be used to have this occur automatically. If you are faking a rapid using a fast G1 move, your load monitoring is ON and will be adversely affected by the increased current during the fast feed move and it will screw up your load monitoring values.

Your Okuma has 4 methods of monitoring:

1. NC torque limiter - always ON monitoring for crashes.
2. Load monitor - for detecting worn or broken tools.
3. Torque limiter - used to limit load to a maximum value such as during a part transfer.
4. Torque skip - used to feed to a certain load, and then stop such as when feeding to a part or using a bump stop.

This should be enough for us mere mortals to work with.

I've included a copy of AUTOSET-FIXR in case anybody needs it. It was written for an LT200-MY, so it may have more than you need for a simpler machine.

Best regards,

[deadlykitten]

...

hello, i know that automatic +10/20% works fine only with medium tools, that generate medium eforts, while with little / big tools extra caution is needed

i am glad you shared your solution, packed inside that AUTOSET-FIXR, and i wish to present you an alternative one, still under development; pls see attached files

i still work for the automatic toogle mode, between relative and absolute ; i guess relative mode should work inside 15 .. 85 %

i registered with those in a Photoshop contest \o/

however, once interface is redesigned to manage this functionality, maybe you sent it to Okuma + your AUTOSET, and will be included in next OSP update ... if you have a strong contact inside, i think it is possible ...

[OkumaWiz]

I see that you are bi-polar now! :-)

I freaked when I saw your "photoshopped" screens thinking that I had missed some parameters that were added. Then I re-read and caught the photoshop part - you got me! I like the idea but think it should be either "by Percent" or "Fixed amount" and use the same registers now used for the 110 and 120%. I've already sent Okuma my AUTOSET-FIXR program, so still waiting for them to catch on to how much better it works that way.

Best regards,

[Tarox]

Hello, i will use this thread to ask my question about load monitors.

Okuma Multus B200 W

I always make programs in IGF and then edit their codes manualy. I saw a long forgoten post of OkumaWiz about load monitoring axes:
VLMON[1]=1 (X AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=2 (Z AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=4 (C AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=8 (S AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=16 (M AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=32 (W AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=64 (SS AXIS ON FOR PART 1)
VLMON[1]=128 (Y AXIS ON FOR PART 1)

My problem is that IGF does not put those monitors like that...its VLMON[1]=1 when first tool starts, VLMON[1]=0 when ends, VLMON[1]=2 when second tool starts, VLMON[1]=0 when ends and so on for the rest of the tools. Should i manualy change according to the axis the tool works ? Also i dont see VLMON when drilling a hole, I should add one ?

Another thing..I broke a threading tool a month ago and the machine didn't stop! It was my mistake, i set the tool offset X0 and it just wiped half of itself in the part, then contiued for second time, then third time...well i managed to stop it for the third but...could my load monitor values be set very high? I dont know what is high and low..

[deadlykitten]

...

load monitor and more explained in attachement; i hope it covers all your questions

its VLMON[1]=1 when first tool starts, VLMON[1]=0 when ends, VLMON[1]=2 when second tool starts, VLMON[1]=0 when ends and so on for the rest of the tools .. so at 3rd tool start you have VLMON[1]=3 ? pls check this again

Should i manualy change according to the axis the tool works ? inside IGF, right in the windows where you can setup tool, shoud be available for chosing the axis that you wish to monitor ...

Also i dont see VLMON when drilling a hole, I should add one ? ... if you wish/consider, just add one

Another thing..I broke a threading tool a month ago and the machine didn't stop! ... maybe you did not have monitor on that ...also, tool was too little to be sensed by the machine ... machine alwasy monitors efforts and stops at certain values, to avoid crashing/smashing/etc, and this values are greater than required efforts for little tools

could my load monitor values be set very high? I dont know what is high and low..read that stuff to see how to set up limits

kindly !

[Tarox]

pff..i see my mistake now! Thank you very much! Will try it in a few hours. What's my advantage of using OkumaWiz's AUTOSET FIXR values ? Looks like alot of my programs didnt used the correct VLMON....The thread tool was not a small thing...i dont know the english word...maybe frame ? the one that is tighten in the holder was eaten in half about 20mm deep (chair) at least i know how to set up my tools corectly now :banana:

[deadlykitten]

What's my advantage of using OkumaWiz's AUTOSET FIXR values ?

AUTOSET FIXR is not a stand aloner, but a tuner ... once you'll have no more issues with load monitor, look at post9 for futher explications also file from post9 is filled with coments

Load monitor values are user defined limits to monitor cutting tools at values that are much lower than the machine is capable of producing. I typically use the Auto Set to capture the values and then run my AUTOSET-FIXR program to automatically correct the values to useable levels. I've tried multiple times to get Okuma to change away from the base x % values they use since for example at a 10% load it will auto set at 10, 11, and 12 which is too tight and at 100% it will set at 100, 110, and 120 which is too loose. My Program changes the values to Base + a fixed value so that you have a 99% chance of success rather than a 99% chance of failure with the Auto Set.

[OkumaWiz]

Inside of IGF when you select your tool, there is the ability to set which axes you want to monitor. It's been there since the late 80's. I think that you are overlooking it or have your tools set up wrong in IGF. It is normal to have them default to the active tool number that you are using, but for example you should be able to set a drill to monitor Z and a Rough turn tool to select both X and Z as default for that style of tool. Look around some more and I think you will find where to set it. It should be in with your tool "library" settings.

Best regards,

[Tarox]

Thank you both! Looks like most of the tools dont have the right monitoring or dont have monitoring at all. I'm gonna fix that as soon as possible!

[deadlykitten]

Looks like most of the tools dont have the right monitoring or dont have monitoring at all. I'm gonna fix that as soon as possible!

no need to monitor them all ... only a few; depends .. for example : drills, taps ...

most of them can be heared while cutting .. dimensions start to vary when tools gets unstable .. chip color

if you wish to share your part + tools, we can discuss more precise

I broke a threading tool a month ago and the machine didn't stop! It was my mistake, i set the tool offset X0 and it just wiped half of itself in the part

if you setup the machine and that thing happened on 1st part, right after your setup, than where were you ? always run for each setup as many trials as you wish untill all your doubts are vanished

if your setup was wrong, and you were sure to leave, than ... just stay near that machine until at least 1 part pumps out ... not just stay, but step-by-step your program, put your head on bearings, and inspect active program line on display, than eyes to parts, with your hand on potentiometers ... line was good ? next one ...

move origin in front, so to cut air inspect machine movement ... is it doing what you had in mind ?
simulate programs, not in igf, but on virtual machine .. there is no need that tools and toolholders to be declared in anti-colision, if you know what you are doing

at beginning, testing + 1st part took me a lot of time ... this is how i learned

[Tarox]

I am doing the stuff you said now. Little bit late but never too late :idea: I had no idea what am i doing with this thread. The speed was around 700 so the feed rate was very high and i was lucky stoping the machine the third time going into the part. It is good to know i can use VLMON for things i've never done before (like the thread).

[deadlykitten]

immune time only occurs when switching from G00 to a feed mode

i really needed to know where this immune time occurs when replacing G0 with G1 ... i used this replacing technique because of multiple cases that i meet, as described at post 7 ... so i runned some tests ( file attached ), and it seems that immnue time occurs also, on Z axis, whenever VLMON[...]=2 is triggered ... perhaps this happens not only for Z, but for all axis ? for S sounds reasonable ... however, my issue was only with Z, so each time a rapid must be replaced, the following code works as it should, AutoSet ignoring raised effort when Z sense is reversed :

VLMON[..]=2
G01 Z-100 ____F.. G95 ( cutting )
G01 Z+3 ______F.. G94 ( tool disengage )
VLMON[..]=0
VLMON[..]=2
G01 Z-100+0.5 F.. G94 ( tool repositioning )