[jreynolds5]

Honestly we had Nomura in the mix at the beginning because we already deal with Gosiger and have had exellent service from them.....but my boss was hell bent on getting a 20 mm machine with a b axis and Nomura's B axis machines start at 32mm. So that put them out of contention.

[chunkymonkey]

I'd go with Citizen then. The L20 is a good machine. Make sure to get the CAV loader. Best suited for Citizens. If you don't mind, what kind of work are you guys into?

[jreynolds5]

For lack of better terms we make surface prep equipment.....waterjet.....the trucks that take lines off the road....rubber off runways, industrial cleaning machines....etc

[jreynolds5]

Lots of stainless steel....13-8 h1000 and such. Brass too. High pressures 40k psi and we are working on higher

[DCogswell]

jreynolds, with your company being new to CNC Swiss-type, I would ask (more like demand) for a lot of training. Have them throw in 200 hours of on-site training deliverable within a 12 month period. That's about 5 weeks of extra training and they could break it up to about a week every 2 months. And considering you're company is going to be paying a lot more, the only way they can justify the extra cost is going to be in service & applications support.

When you're new to CNC Swiss, there are many little things to learn which may cause down time. It's that hands on learning with an experienced Applications guy that will make all the difference in the world.

Selecting the right machine is one part of the equation, the other part, and probably the most important part, is to select the right dealer. When you're new to Swiss, you want a dealer that's going to be there for the long haul.

With all that said, the L20 is a good machine with many years of development behind it.

[jreynolds5]

And that is why we chose Citizens over Star. Our dealer for Citizens offers free lifetime training. They told us to get some of our jobs lined up and they will sit down with us to help figure out what tooling will be best and what not. They are also willing to work with us on our post for Gibbs. They have told us anytime we want training.....in our shop to call them and as long as we are willing to work with them as to when it's free. I have heard many good things from other companies about them. They also had the best service department in our opinion. I have not ran Swiss but I have ran 9 axis machines that were programmed similar to a swiss.

[Dualkit]

And that is why we chose Citizens over Star. Our dealer for Citizens offers free lifetime training. They told us to get some of our jobs lined up and they will sit down with us to help figure out what tooling will be best and what not. They are also willing to work with us on our post for Gibbs. They have told us anytime we want training.....in our shop to call them and as long as we are willing to work with them as to when it's free. I have heard many good things from other companies about them. They also had the best service department in our opinion. I have not ran Swiss but I have ran 9 axis machines that were programmed similar to a swiss.

Sounds great, how they don't put Star and their pathetic service out of business baffles the mind.

[jreynolds5]

Sounds great, how they don't put Star and their pathetic service out of business baffles the mind.

Exactly...I know Addy has only been selling Star for just over a year but they only have 3 techs and most Star owners around here actually call Star directly to get support. Dynamic has 14 techs and all of them are trained to handle swiss to some extent and 3 or 4 I would say would be considered experts. Even the Sales guy at Dynamic knows a ton about Citizens.....We were definitely impressed.