[difalkner]

This is my first new post here and I am soon to be a first time CNC router owner. Right now I am trying to decide on a spindle. For my budget it looks like I can get a Chinese water cooled 2.2 kW spindle and Hitachi WJ200 VFD or move up to a 3 kW spindle with Huanyang VFD. I’ve read good things about the Hitachi VFD but have also read many posts here where people have been running the Huanyang VFD for years. I suspect the 2.2 kW spindle will be adequate but I do have the ‘Tim Taylor more power’ gene and if moving to a 3 kW spindle will be noticeable or significant then I would rather do that now than to find out in 6 months I should have gone with 3 kW in the first place. If moving to the 3 kW spindle reduces machining time 20%, for instance, then it is a good move but without prior experience on these I don't have a gut feeling for the difference between the two spindles and their power.

This will be a 4 axis 2’x4’ welded steel frame with THK style linear rails and R&P, NEMA 34 637 oz. in. motors, and I will be cutting hardwoods like Walnut and Maple along with some exotic woods and the occasional milling of aluminum and MDF. I'll also do some work in White Pine and other softer woods but I imagine either of these spindles will cut through those woods like a hot knife through butter.

I am building acoustic guitars and will use the CNC for that to a degree, probably more for making accurate molds, templates, jigs and fixtures, but have many other things I intend to make from signs to artsy designer accessories for homes to whatever will fit on the machine. I have a couple of local shops wanting me to do some small production runs for custom hardwood and exotic trim for mantles, kitchens, etc. but not sheet goods or cabinet doors. I also plan to add an A axis for doing some rotary work but that won’t be in the initial build. While I don’t play electric guitar and may never build one I do have some guys wanting me to cut some solid bodies for them, so if the 3 kW spindle speeds this and other jobs then it is probably a good move.

So the question on the table is 2.2 kW with Hitachi or 3 kW with Huanyang – thanks!

David

[Al_The_Man]

If you want support from the manufacturer and a superior product with a decent manual then go with the Hitachi, a simple you pay your money and take your choice.!
The Huanyang quality is reflected in the price!
Al.

[difalkner]

If you want support from the manufacturer and a superior product with a decent manual then go with the Hitachi, a simple you pay your money and take your choice.!
The Huanyang quality is reflected in the price!
Al.

Thanks, Al. So the extra power of the 3 kW doesn't override the better VFD? I definitely want a better manual and instruction set. Do you use the Hitachi? How long have you used it? Thanks again, David

[rowbare]

You also have to consider if your machine is rigid enough to take advantage of a 3KW spindle and push it around at speed. Also take note of the weight of the spindle. A 3KW spindle is fairly heavy.

bob

[Al_The_Man]

My communication with Hitachi was regarding a custom set up for a BLDC motor control rather than induction motor, but I was impressed with the support.
I have only heard good things on the 3ph VFD.
I have also tried Huanyang and although it worked I was not that impressed with the product and manual, the Modbus link is a nightmare!
Al.

[difalkner]

You also have to consider if your machine is rigid enough to take advantage of a 3KW spindle and push it around at speed. Also take note of the weight of the spindle. A 3KW spindle is fairly heavy.

bob

Yes sir, that's why I pointed out it's a welded steel frame with rack and pinion and THK style linear bearings. I think the frame is going to be rigid enough along with the related Z axis components to handle the extra weight and power. But it was more a discussion point for my learning curve because I haven't done this before and am bound to miss something. And since I won't be in a production shop running 8 hours each day the 2.2 kW will do nicely, I'm sure. Thank you!

My communication with Hitachi was regarding a custom set up for a BLDC motor control rather than induction motor, but I was impressed with the support.
I have only heard good things on the 3ph VFD.
I have also tried Huanyang and although it worked I was not that impressed with the product and manual, the Modbus link is a nightmare!
Al.

That's enough for me, Al. I'll just go with the 2.2 kW and Hitachi. At this point in putting everything together for the first time I don't want the headaches associated with a less than stellar VFD. I'm doing my best to build my second CNC machine first!

Thanks for the advice!
David

[difalkner]

It appears most of the 2.2 kW water cooled spindles are the same except some have 3 bearings and some have 4, and some have 3 wires and some have 4. Here's a 4 bearing, 4 wire spindle from a seller with pretty decent feedback - New Four Bearings 2 2KW Water Cooled Spindle Motor ER20 CNC Router | eBay.

Any reason not to get this one?

[Al_The_Man]

4 wire is 3ph and ground, make sure the ground pin is actually grounded, a common assembly error is the ground terminal has no wire or defective connection.
Al.

[aarggh]

If they're Chinese supplied I suspect a lot of the 3 and 4 bearing units may actually have the same number of bearings! ;-)

Not being pessimistic as we love our cheap, Chinese gear in OZ, but a lot gets lost in translation with some of the sellers!

cheers, Ian

[difalkner]

Ok, so let me add another choice - how about the Bosch Rexroth EFC5610? How does that compare to the Hitachi WJ200-022SF?

[bhurts]

I use one of the 3kw Chinese square air cooled spindles with a Hitachi wj200 2.2kw vfd. The vfd is up to 13amps and the spindle is 10amps. I set the vfd to 13amps and never had a problem. I also regularly use the spindle at 6000 rpm for extended periods with no overheating issues.

Ben

[difalkner]

I use one of the 3kw Chinese square air cooled spindles with a Hitachi wj200 2.2kw vfd. The vfd is up to 13amps and the spindle is 10amps. I set the vfd to 13amps and never had a problem. I also regularly use the spindle at 6000 rpm for extended periods with no overheating issues.

Ben

Thanks, Ben. How loud is your 3 kW air cooled spindle compared to a router on the loud side and a water cooled spindle on the quiet side? And no issues running the 2.2 kW Hitachi with a 3 kW spindle? How long have you been running it in that combination?

[bhurts]

No issues and I've been running it a few years. I can't compare to water cooled personally but it is significantly quieter then a normal router. The vfd is rated to a higher amperage then the spindle. In truth the Chinese spindles are overrated to some extent. The 2.2 kw spindles are rated 8 amps and the 3kw are rated 10. At those amperages the 3kw is actually 2.2kw and the 2.2kw is actually 1.76kw. That is if my understanding of the conversion is correct.

Ben

[aarggh]

Almost anything is quieter than a standard router. And the water cooled at least which I'm familiar with is orders of magnitude quieter. In fact I can quite happily run 3D finishing jobs late into the night, and the air intake from the extractor, (which is pretty quiet itself) makes more noise than the machine and spindle!

Standard wood routers simply don't compare to them in any way.

cheers, Ian

[difalkner]

No issues and I've been running it a few years. I can't compare to water cooled personally but it is significantly quieter then a normal router. The vfd is rated to a higher amperage then the spindle. In truth the Chinese spindles are overrated to some extent. The 2.2 kw spindles are rated 8 amps and the 3kw are rated 10. At those amperages the 3kw is actually 2.2kw and the 2.2kw is actually 1.76kw. That is if my understanding of the conversion is correct.

Ben

That's good info, Ben. I'm thinking of going the same route myself.
Thanks!
David

[difalkner]

I checked the specs and talked to the guys at Drives Warehouse about using the Hitachi WJ200-022SF with the 3 kW spindle and they said it would work just fine. The Hitachi is rated for 11 amps and the 3 kW spindle pulls 10 amps so all should be fine.