[coffeetek]

So I talked to Tormach, they will send me new Leadshine controller... But apparently there will be recall and replacement in about 30 days for 10,000RPM sudden engagement. I also been told that they've seen instances of Leadshine burning out if E-Stop is pressed while machine is working, which is not what happened in my case. But, that is really strange and bad if you are going to burn Leadshine by pressing e-stop while machine is cutting... Crazy... Now you can't even use safety feature without burning machine down??? I stand by my assessment that this machine was not ready for public sales, these are still in my eyes beta quality machines.

[MetalDawg]

So I talked to Tormach, they will send me new Leadshine controller... But apparently there will be recall and replacement in about 30 days for 10,000RPM sudden engagement. I also been told that they've seen instances of Leadshine burning out if E-Stop is pressed while machine is working, which is not what happened in my case. But, that is really strange and bad if you are going to burn Leadshine by pressing e-stop while machine is cutting... Crazy... Now you can't even use safety feature without burning machine down??? I stand by my assessment that this machine was not ready for public sales, these are still in my eyes beta quality machines.

I agree Dennis. The machines aren't ready. On the plus side I am impressed with the people at Tormach, and how they have worked with me on this issue. If you want please email me at [email protected] with your phone number. I would like to compare my issues with yours if you do not mind.

-Darryl

[tmarks11]

I stand by my assessment that this machine was not ready for public sales, these are still in my eyes beta quality machines.

Tormach made a big change from all their other machines by going for the all-in-one Leadshine MX3660.

All their other machines (770, 1100, SPL15, and Surface Grinder) have a separate BOB and individual drivers.

Maybe they shouldn't have gone for the third party solution and stuck with the tried and true!

I also suspect the jury is still out on the BLDC motor. All their other machines use VFD and induction motors. A lot of other manufacturers' entry-level machines have had BLDC motors and have had severe issues with the controllers.

[LeeWay]

I honestly do not think it is the drives at fault.
I think it is more of an electrical engineering error somewhere else in the control panel. Given some of the errors that has arisen, it could possibly be noise related in part and inrush current for other parts. I don't have the MX3660, but give the MX4660 a really good workout every week on our plasma cutter.
I consider it to be an upgrade from the G540 and I really like Gecko drives.
I do think they will sort it out. As for it still being a Beta thing, not really.
I understand the disappointment, but not all of these machines have shown these issues. Its not whether they deliver a perfect machine that never breaks down to every customer every time, but how they take care of the ones that something does happen to.
Like automotive parts, there are a lot of manufacturers involved in all the pieces of the machine to make a complete machine.
They must rely on the QC from those companies for the most part.

I can pretty much guarantee that Tormach does not want to have unhappy customers. What company does?

[coffeetek]

I do think its MX3660, its a new product, and there isn't just much else there in Tormach box. I do appreciate that they are reachable and willing to help without BS, but I'd rather that I never ever have to talk to them. I was planning to use this machine for business and now spent over $14k with Tormach and will have machine sitting for over a week while I wait to get parts so I can see what else is wrong. If it burns out again I'd have to return the whole thing because its costing me money if it just sits there. I've thrown money out of the window. I have parts waiting to be made and machine run for 15 minutes before it went up in smoke while trying to reference the axis. That is beta product to me...

[coffeetek]

So yesterday early in the morning I got on the phone with Tormach and reported issue and arranged for replacement MX3660 to be sent and as of now nothing has been mailed to me... $14k machine sitting not due to fault of my own.... So disappointing.

[LeeWay]

Wow. It was 10K in post 36.
Hell that machine is increasing it's worth just sitting there.

Honestly, I have never liked the 440 from the start. It is NOT a beta machine at this point. It is marketed as a Hobby size machine. Aimed at hobbiest. I agree that you should have bought something with a better track record, but this one really isn't geared toward any kind of production work. At least not yet. It is a better machine than the initial shipments now except when it doesn't work.
If you are that disappointed, then you will likely never be happy. Buyers remorse. Consider for yourself if you will be happy when the red line items are warrantied and the machine is working again.
I don't know how Tormach is with returns, but the machine should be easy enough to offload locally and you could buy something else.

[coffeetek]

Wow. It was 10K in post 36.
Hell that machine is increasing it's worth just sitting there.

Honestly, I have never liked the 440 from the start. It is NOT a beta machine at this point. It is marketed as a Hobby size machine. Aimed at hobbiest. I agree that you should have bought something with a better track record, but this one really isn't geared toward any kind of production work. At least not yet. It is a better machine than the initial shipments now except when it doesn't work.
If you are that disappointed, then you will likely never be happy. Buyers remorse. Consider for yourself if you will be happy when the red line items are warrantied and the machine is working again.
I don't know how Tormach is with returns, but the machine should be easy enough to offload locally and you could buy something else.

Ha, ha, I did not want to look at invoice again because it will make my head explode, $13488.62+some tooling its at $14000 outlay. Honestly, I do not know anyone who can afford $14k hobby machine, maybe your acquaintances are richer . If you go to Tormach web site for 440 there is nowhere any mention of word hobby, its not marketed as hobby machine clearly. Why do you think its aimed at hobby use? I am not unloading machine and taking loss that way. Either it works without burning up or I get my 100% refund. There is no other option.

[coffeetek]

On positive note, I did manage to make 15 minute cut in acetal and was about to flip the part to do other side when machine burned down during referencing of the axes. From little what I've seen the machine is capable and its great fit for my use as long as it works. The cuts look good, its precise enough, fast enough... As far as capabilities of the machine go I have no regrets or remorse...

[MetalDawg]

I honestly do not think it is the drives at fault.
I think it is more of an electrical engineering error somewhere else in the control panel. Given some of the errors that has arisen, it could possibly be noise related in part and inrush current for other parts. I don't have the MX3660, but give the MX4660 a really good workout every week on our plasma cutter.
I consider it to be an upgrade from the G540 and I really like Gecko drives.
I do think they will sort it out. As for it still being a Beta thing, not really.
I understand the disappointment, but not all of these machines have shown these issues. Its not whether they deliver a perfect machine that never breaks down to every customer every time, but how they take care of the ones that something does happen to.
Like automotive parts, there are a lot of manufacturers involved in all the pieces of the machine to make a complete machine.
They must rely on the QC from those companies for the most part.

I can pretty much guarantee that Tormach does not want to have unhappy customers. What company does?

I completely agree, and they have been bending over backwards to find a solution!

[mattz0r]

It's a shame they didn't make it a $6k machine and put in the standard stepper drivers, an AC motor with VFD, and maybe better ball screws. I chose the 440 largely for it's size as it is much more practical to move around and the envelope is sufficient for the work I do. Any volume work I'll do will be in PTFE, so don't need crazy power and rigidity. Hopefully some of that stuff can be upgraded later on.

[ag53711]

As Coffeetek mentioned, we have issued a service bulletin related to the uncommanded spindle acceleration that some PCNC 440 users have reported. To date, all field-reported instances of this issue have been onset by PathPilot crashes triggered by accessing the Dropbox enhancement that was released in v1.95. You can read the service bulletin here for further technical details.

Since this issue was first identified, we have isolated the root cause to the MX3660 module manufactured by Leadshine. We have worked with the Leadshine engineering team to devise an appropriate permanent solution, via hardware revision to the MX3660 module. These revised modules are currently being manufactured in quantity. As soon as the revised components are available, we will ship out replacement modules to all owners of PCNC 440 mills that are subject to this issue.

In the meantime we are recommending that existing PCNC 440 users do the following:

1) Always follow the correct Power Off/ Power On Sequence (as documented in the Operator's manual and the aforementioned service bulletin)
2) Remove the Dropbox feature in PathPilot

This issue only affects PCNC 440 mills that have already been delivered to customer sites. New PCNC 440 machines have already received this fix.

Thank you for your support of our company and products. Should you have any questions regarding this service bulletin, please contact our technical service department at [email protected]

[Solid_Brass]

This just happened to my buddies new 440 that I am helping him with (just got delivered last week). I hit the dual boot button by accident, computer re-booted and spindle turned on. His active probe was in the machine at the time. Ripped the cable out of the control pannel, and broke the ceramic tip.

[CountrySmith]

This just happened to my buddies new 440 that I am helping him with (just got delivered last week). I hit the dual boot button by accident, computer re-booted and spindle turned on. His active probe was in the machine at the time. Ripped the cable out of the control pannel, and broke the ceramic tip.

I said earlier and I say again. Best practice dictates physically locking the spindle when sensitive instruments are in the spindle or, worse yet, your hands or other body parts are in proximity of the tooling in the spindle. Don't depend on the electronics for a fail-safe.

RJ

[coffeetek]

I said earlier and I say again. Best practice dictates physically locking the spindle when sensitive instruments are in the spindle or, worse yet, your hands or other body parts are in proximity of the tooling in the spindle. Don't depend on the electronics for a fail-safe.

RJ

Its not possible RJ on 440 if you have enclosure and are using active probe or Haimer. You have to close the upper door which releases the spindle lock. Additionally there is no physical switch to turn the spindle off.

[CountrySmith]

Dennis, Thanks for the info. The 770 has a fork which drops down on flats on the spindle permitting tool changes. My first action is usually to open the door and engage the fork.

How are tool changes accomplished with the 440?

RJ

[coffeetek]

Dennis, Thanks for the info. The 770 has a fork which drops down on flats on the spindle permitting tool changes. My first action is usually to open the door and engage the fork.

How are tool changes accomplished with the 440?

RJ

Same but you have to close the door to lower the spindle if you put in the Haimer or active probe. Closing the door releases the lock on the spindle.

[CountrySmith]

Dennis,

Having reread your post, I can see the problem when the probe or Haimer are being used. Is the door required to be shut in order to move the table on the 440? The 770 will move with the door open. I use a digital dial indicator for finding z and always leave the spindle locked and door open. Ditto when I am manually tapping with a tap guide.

RJ

[CountrySmith]

Based on your response, it sounds like Tormach has a safety issue. I will be at their open house in two weeks and will ask the question there.

RJ

[coffeetek]

Dennis,

Having reread your post, I can see the problem when the probe or Haimer are being used. Is the door required to be shut in order to move the table on the 440? The 770 will move with the door open. I use a digital dial indicator for finding z and always leave the spindle locked and door open. Ditto when I am manually tapping with a tap guide.

RJ

If you have enclosure you have to close the door to lower the spindle.