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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Uncategorised MetalWorking Machines > Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!
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  1. #361
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    Aug 2008
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Quote Originally Posted by ebrewste View Post
    What does it sound like? Clicks at the jerk points? If so, I would guess that is your acceleration feedforward (aff) doing its job. Aff causes a current (force) to be output proportional to acceleration. Since you are running trapezoidal moves, Those acceleration curves have square edges. Its like hitting your ball screws with a little hammer. Since feedforward is not a closed loop thing, it's bandwidth is only limited by your current loop performance. So to calm down those clicks, you either need to back off on your aff and sacrifice following error performance on acceleration portions or change your trajectory so you aren't commanding square acceleration profiles. Or put a low pass on your speed loop output. It will limit performance, while reducing the clicking, but you might find a happy medium. However, it will limit your closed loop bandwidth. The one practical downside of those clicks is that they might show up as ringing in the surface finish because they excite the mechanical structure. Or it might not...

    I think you are generally getting quite nice performance. You may even think about backing off your system bandwidth. I had an experience when doing servo tuning for a recognizable VMC manufacturer. -- Don't set your bandwidth too high or you will shake the head / column on higher jerk portions of your trajectory. I had come from a background of always shooting for maximum bandwidth / minimum following error, but with max servo bw, those high jerk sections would get the head / column moving, as the servo jerk was like hitting the mill with a hammer. When we backed off on the system bw, contouring tests would have drastically less ringing shown in the tool paths. It was a mixed bag -- I could clearly measure the increase in servo following error, but that was less objectionable than the ringing left in the cut. That ringing was absolutely not measurable by us and was absolutely invisible to running your fingernail over it, but it was easy to see.
    I think that o am probably going to run open loop with the best servo drive tune due to the fact that the motion is smoothest. I can absolutely tell you that in full closed loop at this point in time that there is too much noise transferred into the machine from the control managing the following error corrections. what is causing it to me could be a number of things, as you stated, drives, trapezoidal acceleration, bandwidth, etc.. I'm still new to all of this and still learning, so each day brings more Information to work with. oddly enough, Clint has been running machine with a completely untuned drive since day one and if it is anything like mine the max following error was Astronomical.. yet he managed to make parts that were to tolerance. a mystery to me.

    I have the accelerated feed forward in the drive set to zero because it made things worse. the position feed forward is set at 100% and position gain at Max but once position feed forward is at Max the gain plays less of a part it would seem. changes to it seemed to make little difference unless they were really big.

    I have some direction from PCW at mess to try using the encoder as a low bandwidth feedback loop similar to a linear encoder, I'm researching now how to configure that in the Hal to test and will report the results! thanks for you input, very insightful!

    Chris

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  2. #362
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    Apr 2014
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    344

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Quote Originally Posted by lcvette View Post
    Have a video? What's a slow tool change In your opinion, I'm new to too changes so I'm not sure, I'm guessing mine is slow. It definitely is compared to arm type I've seen on YouTube.. but it's also better than manual to change. Oh also it's a12 tool carousel.. think they also have a 15, and now they have a 24 tool arm type as well available but the price was significantly higher and my machine was too far along by the time it became available so I stayed with the carousel type.

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk
    Did my reply to this get deleted? As I don’t see it now?

  3. #363
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Quote Originally Posted by ianagos View Post
    Did my reply to this get deleted? As I don’t see it now?
    I still see it..

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  4. #364
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    Apr 2014
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    344

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Oh this is weird was viewing on Tapatalk and a lot of the conversation was missing. Anyways it’s interesting that closing the loop makes it worse. I think it’s better to close the loop otherwise you are losing some of the Benefit of servos.

  5. #365
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    Jun 2011
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    692

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Quote Originally Posted by ianagos View Post
    Anyways it’s interesting that closing the loop makes it worse. I think it’s better to close the loop otherwise you are losing some of the Benefit of servos.
    It's still closed loop, just only closed in the drive and not back to the controller.

  6. #366
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    67

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    So I scanned the thread since I last visited a couple years ago. What's the status Runfa Machine Company and this machine? runfamc.com is no more Did the machine ever become a finished product that could be ordered?
    in order to learn... not save money.

  7. #367
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Hey guys, sorry for the long delay, but I focused on some new projects, they were machine related for this machine and others and will hopefully add some value to the cnc community! I will just toss these out here for some teasers, it is very close to being tested on the machine, currently we are finishing up doing testing in simulation mode to find bugs and things we missed or that need to be added. hopefully it makes things easier to use on the machine, I certainly now am very happy that i stayed with Linuxcnc as this project has made the learning experience high but well worthwhile and I now feel extremely comfortable with it and have the ability to add the things i want both in the interface I designed with the help of Hazzy and Turboss from the Linuxcnc forum and with the control side. it really is a great feeling to know I am not locked into a control that requires an act of congress to add something too and this one can be changed and adjusted to suit my style and needs! Hope you enjoy!


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 7_pb_probe2.jpg   8_pb_probe3.jpg  

  8. #368
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    More..



    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  9. #369
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    Jun 2011
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    692

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Nice looking screen set you got there.
    Looking forward to getting started with LinuxCNC myself in the next few months I hope.

  10. #370
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    Feb 2016
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    58

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    I like those screensets, are these built under QtPyVCP with the help of Kurt and Turboss? I have been using LinuxCNC for a few years and just got started with making my own screensets, I can't believe how much power LinuxCNC has, it is literally completely customisable! If you're open to it I'd love to have a look at a copy of that screenset. More than understand if you'd rather not though

  11. #371
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    May 2013
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    10

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Firstly I wanted to congratulate you on your achievements since getting your machine. You have done amazing job.
    I'm in the process of rewiring a 500Kg desktop mill switching it from Mach3 to LinuxCNC and would love to try your screens out.
    The other comment was the Servo control, when your had LinuxCNC doing close loop had you disabled the close loop on the servo drives ? and I mean have you disconnected the encoder wires from the drives ?
    Cheers
    MIke

  12. #372
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    Feb 2016
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    58

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Any update on this? thoughts or comments on the purchase? I'm looking at similar machines

  13. #373
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    Jul 2019
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    3

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    hi Icvette
    I would like to know from you
    are you satisfied with this machine
    would you buy from this same supplier again
    what would you do different

    I wanted to PM you
    but always get this message and don't know where to change settings
    You have turned off private messages.
    You may not send private messages until you turn them on by editing your options.

  14. #374
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    I recommend going with still over a none branded non us company. The after sport had been horrible from this manufacturer so no I would not recommend runfa.



    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  15. #375
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    New graphical user interface in testing wanted to post up a teaser video. What I can recommend strongly after using it in testing the probing routines of the interface is this touch probe from Drewtronics, its bang on for accuracy and repeatability and economically priced for the quality and craftsmanship put into them. Highly recommend!!

    Hoping to get some more videos up soon!! Been a long time making with the new interface build, anxious to get some chips flying!!

    Chris


    https://youtu.be/r31z6VCv7P8


    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  16. #376
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    Aug 2008
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Another video and overview of the reparability of the machine and probe as well as a little overview of the probing functionality of the new gui!

    https://youtu.be/nYfudfrebxY

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  17. #377

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Is this the Pathpilot GUI or did you go with one of the myriad LinucCNC GUIs? It looks fantastic! I must admit that having left my original LinuxCNC system in the box and opted for Centroid and Newker on my 2 machines instead, I'm thinking I should have held firm.

    I don't know if you are aware that there is now a Fusion 360 post processor that supports WCS probing functions for PathPilot. This allows you to probe mid-operation to pick up accurate dimensions.

    Thanks for posting this epic adventure! I hadn't noticed it until now and it's inspiring to see how others have gone about creating their own special solutions.

  18. #378
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    May 2013
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    10

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    This is LinuxCNC with a GUI he and I think some others have been working on.

  19. #379
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    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzer View Post
    Is this the Pathpilot GUI or did you go with one of the myriad LinucCNC GUIs? It looks fantastic! I must admit that having left my original LinuxCNC system in the box and opted for Centroid and Newker on my 2 machines instead, I'm thinking I should have held firm.

    I don't know if you are aware that there is now a Fusion 360 post processor that supports WCS probing functions for PathPilot. This allows you to probe mid-operation to pick up accurate dimensions.

    Thanks for posting this epic adventure! I hadn't noticed it until now and it's inspiring to see how others have gone about creating their own special solutions.
    Muzzer, as stated above, this is a gui built on a new platform of designer, qtpyvcp. It's totally it's own gui running on linuxcnc. We hope to expand it as time goes on with conversational subroutines and one touch solutions!

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  20. #380

    Re: Chinese XK7130 a complete experience Review!

    It's been some time since I spent any time on the LinuxCNC forum. I see there is another major thread there on the development of this GUI. It's great that you put so much effort into sharing your work for others to learn from and give inspiration!
    https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/3...derway?start=0

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