[arcadiax]

Hi everyone, Steven here.

This is my first post. I am very new to the world of CNC and machining in general and had purchased my first budget friendly desktop CNC kit from ZenCNC.

I am currently at the mercy of my own ignorance and also the company I had purchased the CNC Kit from (ZenCNC) does not seem to have any customer service so I am just lost and need some help. Any help is deeply appreciated.

I currently have a 12 x 12 ZenCNC desktop kit that took me 4 weeks on and off to assemble when I have time. I am a slow learn when it comes to technology.

My issue right now is with its spindle motor, which is not turning upon initial testing.

It's a DC spindle, 5000-8000 RPM - ER11.

Turning the spindle by hand seems very smooth. No jittery, or weird physical motion. Feels like smooth machine rotation. Feels like butter.

The instructions recommended a raw power test of the spindle first before connecting it to a microboard (Variable speed controller) than I think to the arduino. It also recommended soldering extension cables (Minimum 14 AWG) to the spindle cables because the spindle cables (1 black, 1 red, 4 inches long) are too short to reach the power supply units and other boards. There were also 6 limit switches which I have also soldered extension cables to but have not yet mounted or tested.

Should I have not gone with the minimum 14 AWG and maybe gone with something higher? I see some people use 18 or even 20 AWG for my machine but the instructions said 14 AWG.

So, having attempted my first ever soldering, I used a handy man tool to help hold my 2 ends together, keeping my hands free for soldering. The soldered joints are a little thick but strong.

After having followed all the instructions to the T, which were pretty straight forward as it was only 4 wired connections (Power plug's 2 wire - live and neutral - and 2 wires from the motor) into the power supply, I plugged the plug in and tried to see if the spindle would turn. The power plug was plueed into a surge protector first. This was just a direct power feed from outlet to surge protector to power supply unit to spindle.

The power supply LED came on, but its cooling fan and the spindle did not turn at all.

I am wondering of these possibilities but am not sure.

1. Bad solder? But than shouldn't the PSU fan turn on?
2. Bad power supply, but than why did its LED turn on?
3. Broken Spindle? But than shouldn't the fan turn on anyways?

There was also this little white plastic screw like dial near the power supply backend connectors area. I assume it controlled the voltages. It was turned all the way counter clockwise so I turned it clockwise towards the + side but still nothing happened. So I reversed it. Setting on the PSU is at 115V, not 230V as per their instructions (For North American outlet standards).

I have also attached some simple images to show my CNC. It's boards, power supply and the soldered connection area. I used electrical tape to cover it.

Thanks to all who read this lengthy post. I look forward to any suggestions and help. Truly, reached rock bottom as that company provides very little help after purchase. Their forum is dead.

- Steven

[Miller6386]

Do you have a meter to check output power of the PSU? (Power supply unit) Take a picture of the output of the power supply. Let's verify that is hooked up properly.

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[arcadiax]

Hi Miller

Thanks a bunch for getting back to me again so quickly. Gratitude for your
help.

I have attached an image of my hook up with the power supply.
Right side, 2 black cable for power plug - live and neutral - and
left side is the spindle hook up of 1 red and 1 black.

Currently, it is hovering between 28-30 in the top row light number area.

When I turn the plastic white dial on the PSU clockwise about 360 degrees,
the numbers go down to 20 - towards the right the numbers get smaller on the
top.

I am unsure what I need to be looking at...

Attachment 327304

Attachment 327306

[mactec54]

Hi Miller

Thanks a bunch for getting back to me again so quickly. Gratitude for your
help.

I have attached an image of my hook up with the power supply.
Right side, 2 black cable for power plug - live and neutral - and
left side is the spindle hook up of 1 red and 1 black.

Currently, it is hovering between 28-30 in the top row light number area.

When I turn the plastic white dial on the PSU clockwise about 360 degrees,
the numbers go down to 20 - towards the right the numbers get smaller on the
top.

I am unsure what I need to be looking at...


Attachment 327306

Your input power to the power supply should have a Ground wire, it is not safe the way you have it wired, so you need to wire the input Power to the Power Supply with a 3 wire Cable and Plug, the fan does not run, that is normal, it is controlled by a thermostat, also make sure you have the Hot wire on the L terminal

[Miller6386]

We need to verify you are getting 36 volts DC out and you have 110v AC in. Put the meter on DCV and put the leads where marked on this photo. The DC line should read around 36V. The top green line of numbers are not what you are looking at. It's the ones below that and which line depends on which setting you have the meter.

If you aren't familiar with your meter I would start with some research on that to understand it. Once you get that verified check back and let us know. We can get you straightened out from there. Looks like you are on the right track though.


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[arcadiax]

Hi Miller and Mactec, thanks for your kind replies and help. I truly appreciate it.

@Mactec: The power plug came as a 2 wire thingy. I actually had to strip it as it was one of those regular power plugs. I had to cut one of its ends off, than strip it. Unsure exactly what kind of power plug it was but it's like one of those you can plug into a CD Player or the Playstation 2. It was a CNC kit I purchased.

Can I buy a regular 3 wire plug from any electronics store or is there a specific type to buy? I'm a total noob sorry...

---

@Miller: Hmmm, I have the meter set at 250 DCV as that was what the electronic store guy told me to set it at after we emailed back and forth and took a look at my PSU. He did mention, as a last resort - it could be a faulty PSU.

currently, the readings are at 40 V-mA.

---

Guys, I know I am jumping ahead here but to be able to get help is like a godsend for me right now to cool my anxiety so I am wanting to ask you both another question. This was just posted in another thread regarding an old problem I had with this CNC.

I will try to summarise and keep it as short as I can here as the other thread is quite long in its description but i will include its link in the end if you need more information.

This CNC was bought 3 months ago as mentioned. Took me a month to assemble on and off.

The 3 relay axis LED connected to the Arduino board, under normal circumstances, would flash for between 15-30 seconds before going solid.

Randomly, the 3 LED's would start flashing on its own. I keep my CNC plugged into my desktop computer for a long time because I never shut down my computer.

When the CNC LED started flashing, of course i could still jot the axises around with num pad but it is a jerky action because, I suspect, it's only getting intermittent power. I did the following:

1. disconnect the power.
2. disconnect the usb.
3. reboot my computer.
4. reconnect usb.
5. reconnect power.

It did not solve the problem. So I shut down my computer for a couple days while attending other chores. When I came back, i had installed a new cpu (Because my old computer was slow anyway). Rebooted everything and plugged everything back and the LED problem went away. Unexpected but I was happy.

I, out of this world luck, got a reply back from the owner (But have never heard from him since a month ago) and he mentioned it being a Gcode cycling issue between hardware and software. He said he would forward me some Gcode commands but have not yet. Having left my computer off for so long made the hardware refresh itself he mentioned.

I guess I wanted to ask if any of you know how to solve this problem? Gcode is something I do not know where to even begin solving...

This is a picture of the power relays.



Thanks again so much for both your time and energy.

- Steven

[arcadiax]

this is the link to the other thread...

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...ml#post1912684

[Miller6386]

We are a long ways from worrying about G Code. Can you get a picture of where the meter is reading?

The power cord can be made easily or perhaps purchased and already set up...

Is that the only meter you have? A digital meter is much easier for new guys to see and understand.....

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[arcadiax]

Hi Miller,

Wow, thx so much for the quick reply.

Yes, I took a couple pictures and they are attached.

Please have a look and let me know what you think.

Ok, if you say Gcode comes later, I can wait.

Attachment 327438
Attachment 327440

Thanks Miller, I really appreciate all this .

[Miller6386]

Hi Miller,

Wow, thx so much for the quick reply.

Yes, I took a couple pictures and they are attached.

Please have a look and let me know what you think.

Ok, if you say Gcode comes later, I can wait.

Attachment 327438
Attachment 327440

Thanks Miller, I really appreciate all this .

Looks like 30VDC to me. Next thing I would check is the solder connections you made. If those are good I'm going to lean towards a bad spindle motor...

We're the wires attached to the spindle? Is there a way to pull them or check power right at the motor?

Can we get some better overall pictures of this thing?

I repair CNC'S and machines for a living but have very little experience with these DIY units. They function just like the big ones but I need a better overall feel for what all we are dealing with so I can give better options of what we can and can't do to troubleshoot or repair this unit.

Also is the green LED on the PSU on when the spindle is hooked up?
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[arcadiax]

Looks like 30VDC to me. Next thing I would check is the solder connections you made. If those are good I'm going to lean towards a bad spindle motor...

We're the wires attached to the spindle? Is there a way to pull them or check power right at the motor?

Can we get some better overall pictures of this thing?

I repair CNC'S and machines for a living but have very little experience with these DIY units. They function just like the big ones but I need a better overall feel for what all we are dealing with so I can give better options of what we can and can't do to troubleshoot or repair this unit.

Also is the green LED on the PSU on when the spindle is hooked up?
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Miller, I'm very honoured and feel very special you are helping me. Feel very lucky to have met you on here.

I will do my best to provide you as much info and photos as I can. If you feel something is unclear or inadequate, let me know any time.

I just took many photos of the spindle and even took it apart to show you the inside.

Actually when I first received the spindle, i took it apart to see the inside, out of curiosity. I've taken apart dremels before to clean them and refurbish their bearings so I imaged it would be similar in nature. I do not think I physically damaged it by hand because I was very careful with taking it apart.

Examining the magnetic areas, there does not seem to be any damages but I am really not sure on what to look for in the first place.

The LED, I think there is only 1 LED on the PSU and yes it did lit up (The one in the photo) when the spindle is also connected to the PSU.

Please take a look at the photos and let me know your thoughts Miller. If, like you said, worse comes to worst I need a new spindle, please advice on what kind of model this spindle is. I need it to fit into my brackets...and i really do not want to spend anymore money on the original company because they're only around during purchase and than disappear afterwards...I can live with lost money as I do not think they would offer me a refund anyways for faulty parts to begin with and i do not want to irk or annoy them anymore than I have to just in case I really require their emergency assistance later on...

I can also drill new holes to the back plate of the Z-axis for new brackets if you really do not know this kind of spindle. however, I am not sure what sort of replacement spindles to buy - that's if we reach worst case scenario.

I've uploaded the .RAR to my Google Drive with a link because I do not think I can attach past 3 photos directly on this forum.

The link is below, please take a look at the photos at your convenience. Thanks again Miller for all your time and support.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...3FaV3JTZkdGRHM

If you have issues viewing, please let me know.

- Steven

[Miller6386]

Can you safely attach the motor directly to the PSU? I would like to cut the leads on the motor side of your solder and hook that directly to the PSU....That will give us insight if it's in the motor or the wiring. Just be very careful. Make sure that collet is on good and that the motor is secured some how because I have to imagine it will want to take off if it starts spinning.

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[arcadiax]

Oh, I want to add. I did buy a used Dremel 4000 online. The company said that router fits into the current brackets so I will see how well it fits later when I pick it up from the post office.

i also have a cheap WEN rotary model I purchased off of Amazon a few years back. It currently sits quite nicely in the bracket. I did add a couple rounds of Kapton tape to its body to enlarge it slightly by around 1 mm so it is a snug fit inside the spindle bracket and currently it's quite tight.

I understand many people mentioning a rotary tool won't work as well as a spindle due to runout, but in my situation, I just want this to work lol...

i am not picky as I am not making mechanically accurate parts. deviation can be off by 1mm, does not have to be fractions of a mm.

i guess i am just wondering the trade off in the end. your time is valuable too of course.

[arcadiax]

sure I can Miller. before I do that though, I have a minor question.

If you take a look at the spindle case image, it seems the magnets inside deviate lower on one end and higher on the other. The entire thing is a cylinder and when I first took it apart, I had forgotten which end is up or down.

Putting it back together, I just tried to fit it together and if it did not feel right, I would reverse the cylinder.

This time around, since you're here, can I ask you which side of the cylinder should be facing down and which side should be facing up?

I am imagining the shorter side (Where the magnets inside the cylinder are closer to the lip) would face up towards where the connectors are and the side where the magnets are further from the lip would be facing down towards where the collet is.

If this part is confusing, please let me know and I will draw it out.

- Steven

[Miller6386]

sure I can Miller. before I do that though, I have a minor question.

If you take a look at the spindle case image, it seems the magnets inside deviate lower on one end and higher on the other. The entire thing is a cylinder and when I first took it apart, I had forgotten which end is up or down.

Putting it back together, I just tried to fit it together and if it did not feel right, I would reverse the cylinder.

This time around, since you're here, can I ask you which side of the cylinder should be facing down and which side should be facing up?

I am imagining the shorter side (Where the magnets inside the cylinder are closer to the lip) would face up towards where the connectors are and the side where the magnets are further from the lip would be facing down towards where the collet is.

If this part is confusing, please let me know and I will draw it out.

- Steven

The highlighted section needs to "mate" equally with the magnets inside of the cylinder. So the top and bottom edges of the highlighted section need to match or coincide with the magnets inside the cylinder

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[arcadiax]

The highlighted section needs to "mate" equally with the magnets inside of the cylinder. So the top and bottom edges of the highlighted section need to match or coincide with the magnets inside the cylinder

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Miller, another question before I attempt to reconstruct the spindle.

first and foremost, forgive me if I do not use correct terminology.

The bottom of the spindle, ignoring the cylinder, but just focusing on the spindle body inside itself, near the collet, there is a round plate. The actual bottom of the spindle. I've circled it in yellow to show.

i just noticed it now that when I put it in the other orientation, the spindle does not move up or down. Before, in the previous orientation (to be honest, I do not remember the original orientation or if the spindle could move slightly up or down in its casing), it could move up or down slightly during reconstruction. Both orientations, the spindle can be screwed close though and does not move up or down after the screwing.

Also before, the bottom plate, I could rotate it as well (Before I put the screws it). Now this new orientation, It seems the plate is nudged into something even before the screws are put back in so it does not rotate around anymore (Just the bottom plate, the spindle still rotates) - it feels right this time, but i am not sure.

I understand you want the magnets on the spindle to match up perfectly with the entire body of the magnets inside the cylinder right? What can cause a faulty spindle?

I've attached 2 images of the spindle. One is inserted near the short end, the other near the long end. I also left some comments with the photo.

---

photo 1: This one has the magnet closer to the lip - but it seems the inner magnet isn’t as aligned as well. collet is at the bottom, outside of image.

Also, bottom plate does not lock unless i finalize it with screws.

this orientation feels a little weird as well because when i try to close up the top, the spindle bottom would get pushed down a little. The bottom plate does move up and down by itself though when disassembled.

photo 2: the bottom plate fits nicely in, and gets caught by something so it does not move at all. top also closes in nicely and the spindle does not move up or down upon top closure. also, it seems more magnet is matched up on both cylinder and inside spindle. the cylinder magnet is further away from the lip though.

Attachment 327464
Attachment 327466

Sorry for writing so much, but it just feels not knowing anything, i have to try to give as much detail as i can so i do not miss anything.

- Steven

[Miller6386]

Technically all this is is a motor not really a spindle. I am no motor expert but have had plenty apart and feel that photo 2 is the one that makes the most sense and seems to be correct.

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[arcadiax]

Technically all this is is a motor not really a spindle. I am no motor expert but have had plenty apart and feel that photo 2 is the one that makes the most sense and seems to be correct.

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Hi Miller,

so I reassembled the spindle like the 2nd photo. It is still not spinning after connecting it directly to the PSU. I have pretty much cut the spindle away from its extension and did a raw connect like you instructed.

What if I directly, just roughly, braided the spindle's ends to the other 2 black wires and directly connected the spindle to the power outlet? would that let me at least momentarily see if the motor spins?

I can not imagine this motor being broken as it does not look like it suffered any traumas...at least from what my eyes can see.

Any thoughts maybe it could be a busted PSU?

- Steven

[arcadiax]

Hi Miller,

so I reassembled the spindle like the 2nd photo. It is still not spinning after connecting it directly to the PSU. I have pretty much cut the spindle away from its extension and did a raw connect like you instructed.

What if I directly, just roughly, braided the spindle's ends to the other 2 black wires and directly connected the spindle to the power outlet? would that let me at least momentarily see if the motor spins?

I can not imagine this motor being broken as it does not look like it suffered any traumas...at least from what my eyes can see.

Any thoughts maybe it could be a busted PSU?

- Steven

Does the white plastic +V ADJ dial on the PSU have anything to do with this maybe?

[arcadiax]

Miller, I wanted to add, could it be the brushings inside the motor?

Should they be touching something? Could the springs be bad?

I was reading online and someone said if the brushings are not touching, there is no power going through the spindle?

Could it be the first time when I disassembled it, the brushings came loose? I have attached 2 images.

The first image shows a little plastic tab that I thought maybe was designed so the wires could hook behind them and make mounting easier. Or else (Photo 2 later) it would be very hard to mount the cover back on because the springs would keep pushing the brushings in the way. However, with the first photo, it seems having the wires hook around the plastic little black tabs make it look like the brushings are barely touching the copper looking blocks?



The second photo, when the wires are not hooked behind the tabs, the brushings touch the brass blocks.



I do not remember originally if the wires were hooked behind the blocks or not during my first disassembly though but if I do not hook them, it's almost impossible to put back the top it seems...

Oh Miller, I wanted to add something else. Weird thing just happened. The flashing LED on the power relays, they are no longer flashing again. There is a little white button that says RESET on the arduino microboard. I pressed that (While unplugged) and than right afterwards I plugged the power back and the LED did not flash anymore.

i am sort of confused because if there was no power going into the microboard how was the reset able to function - of course that's if it was the reset button solving the issue in the first place.

Just wanted to add this little part in but i understand the spindle is the bigger problem right now.

- Steven