[Gallchobhair]

I just installed the new version. I type a name in the text box. When I attempt to click on
the create profile button the text disappears and I get a message that the text field is empty
no profile created. ??? I am lost.

Thank You
Don

[robertspark]

Yes it got me too....

Type something in the box and press the "enter" key.... then press the create profile button...

No idea why but thats the way it works

Rob

[vmax549]

YES (;-) You do have to press {ENTER} before it will work . That function of "press enter" is not consistant throughout UCcnc (;-). Sometimes you do have to do it and sometimes you cannot do it.

(;-) TP

[Gallchobhair]

I found that out. I see that you need to press enter in most dialog boxes. So to be safe after any change I press enter and then apply and then save.
I feel like a robot. LOL. Now I am trying to calibrate.It will cut a 3 and 4 and 5 inch square but the 3,4,and 5 circle are about 1/2 inch to big.

Don

[CT63]

It got meet too. I contacted Balazs at CNCDrives about this and he said customers wanted to have a "enter" key command instead of just a mouse click. Personally, it's counter intuitive and adds confusion as some command don't required it and some do.

[n1tr0]

The need to hit enter before being able to click on the buttons is definitely NOT intuitive, sort of like needing to double-tap on the jog buttons when using a touch-screen. Thank-you all for the insight.

[vmax549]

Well Actually that is the way MOST cnc controller work on keyboard input. You select the field to input then input teh values THEN you hit ENTER before anything will work. Todays programmers are all over the place as to HOW they do it. A couple of programs I use SOME of the fileds are hit enter to process and SOME are NOT. SOME IF you hit enter it dumps you OUT of teh field. Talk about crazy to use sometimes (;-).

(;-) TP

[n1tr0]

I was showing UCCNC to a senior engineer from Microsoft last weekend and when we couldn't create a new profile, we both just wrote it off as a bug moved on; it's easy to cut new/developing software some slack when it's got so many other great features going for it. Some old CNC controllers might have that odd behavior, but that's not how windows applications work in the modern era. If you enter text in a box and hit the "save changes" button, you expect it to save and not revert to the previous values... even more so when using a touchscreen.

On the screen front, I'd love to see some high-res/wide-screen screenset option (eg. an option to have the jog section always open on wide-screens). The 4:3 ratio hasn't really been used/sold for almost a decade with the 16:9 being the standard for the last 6-8 years. I'm really looking forward to using UCCNC as it continues to mature and as new screensets are added to take advantage of modern computers.

[vmax549]

Teh main resoning behind teh enter/accept process is safety. CNC's can be very dangerous pieces of equipment and can easy maim or kill. The 2 step procees ws developed about 40 years ago as a safety net between man and machne. The idea is you do an input BUT you must accept that inout before teh process can continiue. EVEN today I still have that 1 sec"THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST DID" before the machine moves. It have worked well for at least the last 40 years or so.

Just because something is NEW does not always make it a better idea.

You can always rebuild your screenset to be anyway you want it to be . Wide screen tall screen fat screen skinny screen . One other thing is a crowded work screen is not always a good idea. SOme of teh best control screens I have seen/used were very simple , nothing there but exactly what you need to do the job screens. All teh rarely used options were hidden away from USER view.

In the early days of Mach1/2/3 screensets end up being HOLY WARS to discuss so ART build a screen designer to work with Mach and built a crowded do all screenset and SAID here you go if you don't like it take it off teh screen set and IF you want it add it on the screen set. (;-)

And that has been the standard ever sense.

(;-) TP

[OlfCNC]

I was showing UCCNC to a senior engineer from Microsoft last weekend and when we couldn't create a new profile, we both just wrote it off as a bug moved on; it's easy to cut new/developing software some slack when it's got so many other great features going for it. Some old CNC controllers might have that odd behavior, but that's not how windows applications work in the modern era. If you enter text in a box and hit the "save changes" button, you expect it to save and not revert to the previous values... even more so when using a touchscreen.

Remember that this is not the usual Windows application, but a CNC controller.
The difference is that a usual Windows applications can't hurt you, a CNC machine can.

[dontpanic]

For many years CNCs rely on Windows Embedded technology for example, FIDIA, FANUK, OSAI,
etc only to mention some well known brands that rely on Windows technology for the user interface and
file + Ethernet support. (Siemens is also using Linux or Windows, depending on models of CNC)

And I must tell you that Linux systems will expect the same aproach as n1tro correclty explains :

" but that's not how windows applications work in the modern era. If you enter text in a box and hit the "save changes" button, you expect it to save and not revert to the previous values... even more so when using a touchscreen. "


I did a demo of UCcnc in a company and all the people testing it, had problems to understand this for us "strange" behaviour
that you consider normal.

But If UCcnc wants to have the input fields user-counter-intuitive, what can we do ? My brain only works like most users and
we prefer to go intuitive (and feel confortable) when we test a new product that responds as we expect.

Remember that this is not the usual Windows application, but a CNC controller.
The difference is that a usual Windows applications can't hurt you, a CNC machine can.

[A_Camera]

It got meet too. I contacted Balazs at CNCDrives about this and he said customers wanted to have a "enter" key command instead of just a mouse click. Personally, it's counter intuitive and adds confusion as some command don't required it and some do.

Couldn't agree more. It is VERY frustrating that some time you must hit "Enter", click "Save" and also click "Apply"... That is totally Waco, and extremely annoying. They really need to think through the HMI because that is really not that great in terms of functionality and established standards. I don't know which user really wanted that kind of illogical key and mouse combinations, especially since you some times must, other times must not hit "Enter".

[OlfCNC]

For many years CNCs rely on Windows Embedded technology for example, FIDIA, FANUK, OSAI,
etc only to mention some well known brands that rely on Windows technology for the user interface and
file + Ethernet support. (Siemens is also using Linux or Windows, depending on models of CNC)

And I must tell you that Linux systems will expect the same aproach as n1tro correclty explains :

" but that's not how windows applications work in the modern era. If you enter text in a box and hit the "save changes" button, you expect it to save and not revert to the previous values... even more so when using a touchscreen. "


I did a demo of UCcnc in a company and all the people testing it, had problems to understand this for us "strange" behaviour
that you consider normal.

But If UCcnc wants to have the input fields user-counter-intuitive, what can we do ? My brain only works like most users and
we prefer to go intuitive (and feel confortable) when we test a new product that responds as we expect.

There is already an option in the UCCNC to enable/disable this behaviour, you have to option to make it to work you like.

[A_Camera]

For many years CNCs rely on Windows Embedded technology for example, FIDIA, FANUK, OSAI,
etc only to mention some well known brands that rely on Windows technology for the user interface and
file + Ethernet support. (Siemens is also using Linux or Windows, depending on models of CNC)

And I must tell you that Linux systems will expect the same aproach as n1tro correclty explains :

" but that's not how windows applications work in the modern era. If you enter text in a box and hit the "save changes" button, you expect it to save and not revert to the previous values... even more so when using a touchscreen. "


I did a demo of UCcnc in a company and all the people testing it, had problems to understand this for us "strange" behaviour
that you consider normal.

But If UCcnc wants to have the input fields user-counter-intuitive, what can we do ? My brain only works like most users and
we prefer to go intuitive (and feel confortable) when we test a new product that responds as we expect.

Exactly. In terms of HMI and user interaction, UCCNC has a lot of areas where it should improve. I don't know why and which CNC users they refer to when they say that "Users requested it" but it is not very logical and certainly not safer than doing it according to a logically more correct approach. What is the point of having the "Save changes" button if it does not save changes? THAT is the dangerous thing because you would expect the changes to be saved when they are not.

[A_Camera]

There is already an option in the UCCNC to enable/disable this behaviour, you have to option to make it to work you like.

Is there? Where exactly?

I asked Balazs to make all these extra "Are you sure you are not dumb" questions to be select able so that one should be able to click on "Don't ask this stupid question again" and then it would not pop up again, but he said no to that, based on users forgetting where to disable/enable the messages. So is it now implemented or is it only partially implemented?

[OlfCNC]

I think we not talking about the same things.
The discussion was originally about the need to press enter key to set a DRO.
The solution for that is the "Validate textfield with enter key" check box in the appearance menu.

[ger21]

Is there? Where exactly?

Configuration > Appearance
It's the last checkbox in the most current release.

I don't know why and which CNC users they refer to when they say that "Users requested it"

The big problem here is that you get a lot of users with no cnc experience making suggestions, and a company trying to make as many customers happy as possible.
And then throw in that it's a general purpose control used by a wide variety of machine types, and you end up with cluttered screens.

I created and sold a very popular Mach3 screenset. During the development of it, I had a lot of requests for features which I (and probably most others) didn't have any use for.
I'm currently working on a layout for a UCCNC screenset and I have a hard time deciding what to leave in and what to take out, as I know if I leave things out, people will request them.
So, I'm leaving most items on the Run page, but with a different layout.
I'll probably create another screen for my personal use, with a much more limited feature set.

On the screen front, I'd love to see some high-res/wide-screen screenset option

Working on it, but it'll be a while....

[A_Camera]

I think we not talking about the same things.
The discussion was originally about the need to press enter key to set a DRO.
The solution for that is the "Validate textfield with enter key" check box in the appearance menu.

It would also be useful to be able to tab forward, especially when configuring the software, but I know the usual gang will disagree, so I don't care... but it sure demands a lot of mouse clicking and applying. Not a very intuitive in the HMI.

[A_Camera]

Configuration > Appearance
It's the last checkbox in the most current release.

Yes, I found it, thank you.

The big problem here is that you get a lot of users with no cnc experience making suggestions, and a company trying to make as many customers happy as possible.
And then throw in that it's a general purpose control used by a wide variety of machine types, and you end up with cluttered screens.

Yes, it is not always a good idea to listen to Internet "experts"...

People with no programming knowledge or any experience worth naming give advice on programming and pretend to be experts in real time programming.
People with no electrical engineering knowledge or any real experience give advice on electrical installations and design.
People with no Modbus or any other data com experience give advice about how to control with Modbus and what it can be used for.
People with no Modbus capable VFDs (and no VFD at all) give advice about how to control a VFD with Modbus.
People with no machining knowledge and without even having a machine worth calling a "machine" give advice how things should work and how things worked "the last 40 years"...

I created and sold a very popular Mach3 screenset. During the development of it, I had a lot of requests for features which I (and probably most others) didn't have any use for.
I'm currently working on a layout for a UCCNC screenset and I have a hard time deciding what to leave in and what to take out, as I know if I leave things out, people will request them.
So, I'm leaving most items on the Run page, but with a different layout.
I'll probably create another screen for my personal use, with a much more limited feature set.



Working on it, but it'll be a while....

HMI design is not an easy task. It is pretty easy to design one you like but to make it general and a commercial product is not easy. I know you managed to do it with Mach3 and wish you good luck even with UCCNC but I also understand that these things take time. Listening to people with opinions and satisfy everyone may not be easy, so be careful about that.

Regarding leaving all the items, just changing the layout... In my opinion there are too many items on the Run page. Perhaps I am wrong, but do you think there are so many people using 6 axes and is necessary to have the B and C axis on the Run screen? I doubt that there are that many advanced users and that there are more than a handful using more than 4 axes. Personally I will remove B and C and replace them with something more useful, like auto probing and setting zero buttons for example. Of course, this may take time since all my macros must be translated and rewritten, and before that there is no need to do any changes.

Another argument against leaving everything, just changing the layout is that if you want to sell it then you have to look at it from the buyers perspective and ask yourself: "Why should someone buy my product?" and the buyer will ask "Why should I buy this if all what's changed is the layout?" I mean, the layout change must be very revolutionary and provide so huge improvements that it makes it worth for a buyer to pay for and he feels that he got something for the money. I think it would be a good idea to try to sell both the refurnished version and your own cleaner one, with limited features. That would show you where the real demand is. After all, you will make your own cleaned version, so that is no extra effort needed to sell that one... Just an idea, you don't have to listen to me, I am not a HMI design expert, nor am I claiming to be one.

[ger21]

HMI design is not an easy task. It is pretty easy to design one you like but to make it general and a commercial product is not easy. I know you managed to do it with Mach3 and wish you good luck even with UCCNC but I also understand that these things take time. Listening to people with opinions and satisfy everyone may not be easy, so be careful about that.

Regarding leaving all the items, just changing the layout... In my opinion there are too many items on the Run page. Perhaps I am wrong, but do you think there are so many people using 6 axes and is necessary to have the B and C axis on the Run screen? I doubt that there are that many advanced users and that there are more than a handful using more than 4 axes. Personally I will remove B and C and replace them with something more useful, like auto probing and setting zero buttons for example. Of course, this may take time since all my macros must be translated and rewritten, and before that there is no need to do any changes.

Actually, I've already done almost exactly what you are suggesting.
B and C axis are eliminated.
Auto Zero functions have been added. Macros will be included.
Also, it's designed for 1920x1080 monitors, so all the buttons are fairly large.

Another argument against leaving everything, just changing the layout is that if you want to sell it then you have to look at it from the buyers perspective and ask yourself: "Why should someone buy my product?"....

As I said above, the main reason that people buy my mach3 screenset is the macros that automate too zeroing after tool changes.

.... and the buyer will ask "Why should I buy this if all what's changed is the layout?" I mean, the layout change must be very revolutionary and provide so huge improvements that it makes it worth for a buyer to pay for and he feels that he got something for the money. I think it would be a good idea to try to sell both the refurnished version and your own cleaner one, with limited features. That would show you where the real demand is. After all, you will make your own cleaned version, so that is no extra effort needed to sell that one... Just an idea, you don't have to listen to me, I am not a HMI design expert, nor am I claiming to be one.

I've come to the conclusion that to satisfy the largest audience, I'll be creating a pair of screens. One with everything, and a stripped down version.
It's a tremendous amount of work, very time consuming.
I spent all day Sunday finalizing my layout and creating buttons, and then realized I had forgotten the Status Window.
And unlike Mach3, where a lot of the setup is done in standard Windows forms, UCCNC uses separate screen pages for everything. So it's probably at least 10x more work then a Mach3 screen.
And if I ever get my new router finished, I'll be doing a completely custom screen for that, to support the two spindles I'll be using.