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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > First Impressions of the Rapidturn
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    130

    First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    I have mostly good information to report on my Rapidturn so far. The Certificate of Inspection results look really good. The results were dated February 2016. I haven't checked all of the measurements out, but the spindle run out looks very good on mine. I barely get any movement (less than .0001-.0002" estimated with .001" indicator) on the indicator on the spindle ID, and also on a 1/2" test bar in a cheap collet hardly any more at the collet, and about 2" out. I will get the actual numbers when I have more time.

    My spindle motor ran backwards out of the box. I followed the QC spindle instructions to the letter so I was surprised that it didn't work properly. The 1100 main spindle was correct. As a result I had to switch the U and V wires at the Rapidturn motor and it is now running correctly. I didn't expect that there would be anything causing a difference from the normal Tormach setup. It seems to run really smoothly up to full RPM.

    The belt change and tension adjustment is much easier using a ratchet, extension, and a socket than an open-end wrench. Maybe they will add that to the manual.

    The VFD programming stick worked like it should. I have not yet tried a series of going back and forth between mill and Rapidturn to see how long it actually takes, but other than having to shutdown the machine as stated in the manual and having to re-reference, it is simple. I do still wish I could use the mill spindle without the changeover, but with enough other positives on the overall Rapidturn, I will likely not worry too much about that for what I need. I still have a Duality with the 4th axis kit as well as the 8" rotary table for use when needed.

    I followed the alignment process in the Rapidturn manual. It involves running an indicator over the face of the Rapidturn in the Y direction to align the spindle with the mille x axis (lathe z axis). However, the front face of the Rapidturn looks rough and like it was wire brushed to remove paint. In addition, I was getting about .002" of indicator movement at various locations due to that less than ideal surface finish. I have notified Tormach of my initial experience. They suggested trying to indicate it in using an area below the spindle that is smoother. I have a Duality lathe and dial it in with a test bar in the chuck. I used that method with the Rapidturn and got it aligned but didn't have time to do test cuts.

    Does anyone else with a Rapidturn have one with a rough looking, brushed face. Any issues with dialing it in?

    I have a Series 2 1100 so I don't have that slick extended table like the newer models have. I had to remove the table guards to install the Rapidturn, and even then, my initial setup put the entire Rapidturn on the table surface. I did not move it back to the left and hanging out over the end of the table. However, that does mean the motor is further to the right, so it would limit the Y travel in that direction if you are using it for mill spindle cuts using the manual indexing and spindle lock.

    As soon as I get my gang tooling tested I will post more about how well that works.

    I have a lot more to test out, but it is still looking like a great product and a good step up from the Duality Lathe.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1788

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    My RapidTurn arrived at a bad time -- extended visit from grandkids plus in the midst of a project that is behind schedule -- so I haven't had any time to try it.

    My inspection certificate (attached) shows everything to be much better than minimum standards. The face of the spindle appears to be ground unlike the other report of poor finish. Hopefully I will be able to do some real work with it early next month.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    24

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Thanks for the review, how does one go about switching the PathPilot to lathe mode? I tried to look for documentation on the Tormach site with no luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    740

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mueller View Post
    Thanks for the review, how does one go about switching the PathPilot to lathe mode? I tried to look for documentation on the Tormach site with no luck.
    Press the Lathe mode button

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Step

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1788

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Switching only takes 5-10 seconds on my machine. Unfortunately, when you switch back to mill you have to rehome.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    24

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboStep View Post
    Press the Lathe mode button

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RapidTurn.png 
Views:	0 
Size:	6.3 KB 
ID:	328152
    Step
    I have not seen that button before, but being that I've only had my mill up and running for about 10 minutes I have yet to fully absorb the features on the screen (got the mill last week and I am still installing all the options I bought for it, ATC goes on this weekend!)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    740

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mueller View Post
    I have not seen that button before, but being that I've only had my mill up and running for about 10 minutes I have yet to fully absorb the features on the screen (got the mill last week and I am still installing all the options I bought for it, ATC goes on this weekend!)
    Sorry, but I just couldn't resist!
    This button has been renamed for v1.9.6/v1.9.6b. It was previously labeled "Switch to Duality".
    Step

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1424

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbkahuna View Post
    Does anyone else with a Rapidturn have one with a rough looking, brushed face.
    Post a picture.

    Based on KStrauss' comment above, maybe you got one that sneaked through QC. Give Tormach a call.

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    The face of the spindle appears to be ground unlike the other report of poor finish.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    130

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    I was in contact with Tormach right after seeing it. Here is what it looks like.

    Attachment 328206

    Attachment 328208

    Attachment 328210

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1788

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    I believe that I misunderstood the question. The front of my spindle housing looks much like the pictures from Tbkahuna. I was referring to the area around hole into which a 5c collet fits and it is ground. The spindle is steel while the housing appears to be aluminum.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1424

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    ahh. I too thought you were talking about the spindle face, which should be ground and is a precision surface.

    The housing doesn't need to be a precision surface, so the scratches shouldn't affect your tramming of the rapid turn onto the table (you should indicate off the spindle face, not the housing).

    That definitely isn't a pleasing "brushed aluminum" look, however!
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    130

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    The Tormach procedure is to indicate across the headstock surface (that seems rough for that purpose). That is in the Rapidturn manual which is why I asked Tormach about it. I thought Tormach would identify the best means for aligning so I followed their procedure. As for using the spindle nose, it doesn't seem like that would work the best, but I don't know exactly what you meant (it doesn't seem very wide for that purpose). I have a Duality lathe and did the alignment of it with a bar held in the chuck. I used that method last night with the Rapidturn. It seems like that would be a better way. I suggested that to Tormach but there may be other reasons to use the method in the manual. I just figured that if they said to use that surface that it would be a better surface than it is on mine.

    I still need to do some more checking on the setup. I ran a few cuts on a 1/2" diameter rod and was getting about .001" difference in diameter when measuring about an inch apart along the Z axis. This weekend I will be able to do the same with a 1" bar and will check the runout as well as the alignment of the headstock and overall accuracy. I plan to run some programs I previously ran on the Duality to compare them.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1424

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Looks like the aluminum pieces to make up rapid turn were packed in a box and shipped overseas and rattled against each other, making all those scratches.

    I would indicate across the flat on the spindle nose (the flats are are a few inches apart, so you should get a decent measurement), and then indicate across the headstock face and see how close to parallel they are. Usually you use precision surfaces for alignment, and the headstock face obviously isn't. Tormach occasionally has some strange ideas.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    I would mount it on the machine, align as precisely as possible to a ground bar clamped in the RapidTurn spindle, then mill a reference face across the top front of the housing... I'd also "key" the bottom mounting plate, so I could drop it into a T-slot, and be certain it was aligned very nearly perfectly without having to align it, leaving the precise alignment to the reference face only on parts that require maximum precision. My vises are all keyed so I can just align them to the T-slot, and KNOW they are within ~+/-0.0005 across their jaws. If I need better (virtually never...), then I indicate to the fixed jaw to remove that last half thou.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    670

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    Ok folks, got to watch the Rapid Turn in operation at the Tormach open house. Pretty unique little machine. I was surprised that when ask to show threading, they just cut air. Other cuts, they machined them.....

    So, Tormach had 45 units and are now sold out. Am waiting to see how things go with the first 45. I'd really like to buy in after the third or fourth batch of machines and see if the little bugs are worked out.

    Post up videos if you own one of these new guys.

    Awall
    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    130

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    The Rapidturn base has a fixed pin under the spindle housing and an adjustable/fixable eccentric pin at the front of the base. Once it is setup it , the front pin will be locked and the Rapidturn should drop back on the table really close to being aligned. I will always check it and adjust it if it isn't quite close enough.

    Switching it back and forth between the lathe and mill isn't too bad unless you are doing it a lot. Right now, I am making the gang tool holders for the Rapidturn using the mill, but have to switch back to the lathe to see how it works, then back to the mill to make adjustments in the holder. I tried to stick to the Tormach suggested positioning on the mill table, but like I mentioned before, I have a Series 2 without the table extension to the left. So, that means I have to take off the left side and front horizontal splash guard pieces when the Rapidturn goes on, then put it back together to contain chips and coolant to mill some more. I may just make a bracket for the front piece, so it can stay in place all the time. That would be a help anyway. Then it would just be the end piece that has to come on and off. For shorter pieces, I just put the Rapidturn further to the right on the table. In doing that, it limits the clearance between the motor and the column. However, for short parts, which will be common for me for now, that will be perfect and the changeover won't be too bad.

    After doing it a few times, I think it is best to remove the motor to place and remove the Rapidturn. In any case, the main hold down bolts under the housing are not the easiest to get a wrench on due to limited clearance. I plan to make a special wrench for that, or will see if a ratchet wrench will go on the nuts.

    I have not done any threading, but will test that in the next few days. I expect it to be similar, but a bit better than the Duality and that worked fine for me. I did see somewhere that the spindle synch is still once per revolution like the Duality, not the multiple times as it appeared a few months ago when the Rapidturn was announced. I haven't looked inside to see what the encoder disc looks like. It does seem odd that Tormach wouldn't demo threading. I will post some info when I do some threading.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    130

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    I cut some threads tonight. I cut a .465 diameter by 28 pitch thread in 6061 aluminum. The size was intentional as that was the diameter of the rod in the collet. I used a little slower RPM than I would have with the Duality. I cut these threads at 600 rpm, but had done 900 rpm or higher on the Duality. I picked a shallow starting depth of cut of .01" so the conversational screen showed a calculated 17 passes to get down to my guestimated minor diameter of .425". It cut the thread just fine with the code posted from the conversational screen. This thread was a little less than 1/2" long and took around 30 seconds. It was effortless.

    I looked at it under the magnifier and it looked good. I'll cut some more common threads and some NPT over the weekend and see how the conversational programming works with them and how consistent the pitch is.

    So, that confirms the current version of PP and the Rapidturn will cut threads as is.

    Also, just using the alignment pins in the Rapidturn base as set previously provide very consistent alignment when remounted. I will continue to verify the alignment each time. I make sure to clean the T slot prior to mounting the Rapidturn.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2151

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    More pictures please!
    Eye candy!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    140

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    @tbkahuna - Thank you for posting your findings. Looking forward to reading more.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1788

    Re: First Impressions of the Rapidturn

    I found some time today to add a switch so that I can run the mill spindle or the RapidTurn without moving cables. The switch is a KRAUS & NAIMER 32 AMP 2 POSITION 3 POLE SWITCH C26 A222-600E bought on eBay and the box is a 4x4x4 PVC box from Home Depot. The PVC box mounts to a rectangle of 0.25 aluminum that in turn mounts on the Tormach supplied bracket. In order to get clearance over the PDB cylinder I had to add spacers between the bracket and the support for the PVC box.

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