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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction
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  1. #21
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Thanks Kevin, it will be much appreciated.

  2. #22
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    G59,

    *1 These signals are output for approximately
    two seconds when the power is turned ON.
    Take this into consideration when designing a
    power ON sequence. Relay 1Ry is used to
    stop main circuit power supply to Servopack.
    *2 Change the Cn-02 setting as follows:
    Bit No. 3 = 1
    Bit No. 4 = 0
    Bit No. 5 = 0
    *2
    *3 Pull up the CLR signal with 1 k

    resistance.
    Change the Cn-02 setting as following
    Bit No. A =1


    Also check to make sure the motor you have is compatible with the SGDA-02AP. Do you have a operator you are plugging in when you are doing this test or are you connected using software and a PC?

    I have a couple of these drives and they do work but I needed the digital operator to program them, and it is often difficult to get them to respond to single ended inputs so I converted the single ended outputs to differential outputs from MACH3 using a MC3487 chips, just made a tiny PCB, but you can actually buy them at CNC4PC.

    Since your motor is partially moving this almost seems like the encoder is wired incorrectly or you have the wrong encoder on the motor you are attaching to the driver.

    Russ
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC_0748.jpg  

  3. #23
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Not to hi-jack this suprisingly clean thread, but yes i'm using SigmaWin+ software via RS232 port. The 2 motors i have to work with are both SGMP-02U314M. I'm not even at the stage of wiring up to Mach or LinuxCNC software yet.
    Just trying to get it to autotune using the SVMON software from Yaskawa.
    Thanks for the sugestion. I'll double check my setup.

  4. #24
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    G59,

    Just FYI i went down stairs and hooked up my SGDA-02AP to a 100W motor SGMP-01U31xx and had a terrible time getting auto tune to work with the digital operator plugged into the amp.

    Interesting if I checked the motor type in the AMP is came back with CN-00, 00-04, then 4102 as motor type which is (1) 100V series,(02) 200W, not sure what the leading 4 indicated.

    I finally tried auto-tune again, and you follow these steps when done manually.

    CN-00 switch to 00-05, press DSPL/SET, set machine rigidity, set it to C-002
    displays switches to "tun"
    then you either press the up arrow or down arrow and hold it down, the motor sudden starts to move and stops about 3/4 of a turn and the display says "END"

    I rechecked the motor type and it is still wrong.

    I could go into JOG mode as follows:
    CN-00 > 00-00, press DSPL/SET it switches to JOG
    then pressing the up or down arrow and the motor spins CW/CCW depending on the arrow.

    This is very different then other amps, I also downloaded the software but need to make an RS232 cable to test that method.

    Russ

  5. #25
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Hi,

    This Sigma-1 series does not have status window so it is not possible to catch the details without having RS-232 cable.
    I made mine but still I can't do autotuning because I don't have the digital operator necessary for this job and the price for used ones are ridiculously high in ebay.
    I just gave up and manually changed some settings. As long as it doesn't make any jerky moves and there is no resonance, I am satisfied with my current situation.
    From SGDS series, Sigma-3 generation, on the other hand, has status window + jog buttons at the front panel and they do accept autotuning command from PC through RS-232 port.
    I haven't used SGDH series so I don't have information about it.

    You can test attached parameter set which I extracted from a live SGDA-02AP just ago.
    It has everything in itself.
    But before you go for this, please check if your motor is in the list. It can be found in the manual.

    You indicated that they are not wired to Mach3 yet.
    Then once power/encoder/RS-232 lines are set, you should be able to jog the motor via PC software no matter what the commanding method would be.
    I assume red alarm LED would be blinking when motor stopped, and error message can be identified in the software window.
    I suspect encoder type/wire error.

    regards,
    Kevin

  6. #26
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Thanks for taking the time to do this. I will look at the parameters you sent and compare to the ones I currently have in the drive.
    I'm sure I'm overlooking something.
    Also if the encoder was wired wrong, the SVMON and SigmaWin+ software warn's you that the encoder phases are out or no power and a fault will show on the drive when youtry to jog .
    I have no faults/warnings other then when it is in a 'overload' condition because I let it sit vibrating madly for 10-15 seconds.

    Again thanks.

  7. #27
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    And this is my setup for encoder reading-Mach3

    Two SN75175N, quad line receiver chips with termination resistors
    Each chip can handle 2 axis so all 4 axis encoder can be read, enough for me, which are connected to port#3 in ESS that was simply idle.
    Encoder divider set to 0.001um/pulse, also Mach3 step pulse set to 0.001um/pulse.
    Attachment 334536

    Modified Mach3 screen to catch the readout.
    I use this DRO windows to see if there is any gap between command-execution.
    At first I started acc speed like 0.5G, it moved like a beast, and was pleasant to see that.
    Soon, I discovered error between command-execution was accumulated.
    Thought about that, tried to reduce accel/deccel and it decreased too.
    Finally, depending on the load, successfully settled between 800mm/sec2 ~ 1250mm/sec2 without any accumulated error.
    They coincide to 1/1000mm after several hours of test running complex arc/line moves.
    Attachment 334538

    That's it!

    Kevin

  8. #28
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Quote Originally Posted by G59 View Post
    I have no faults/warnings other then when it is in a 'overload' condition because I let it sit vibrating madly for 10-15 seconds.
    Ahhh I see.

    I had a faulty motor for Z axis, SGMAS-01 series, encoder part was bad and that showed exactly same symptom. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and error... and the message was overload.
    I replaced that motor with another one on the shelf and that just worked fine without any issue.
    You may try to swap the motors.... These motors have experienced more than a decade of abuse so no one can guarantee its current condition.


    kevin

  9. #29
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    I agree, the motors are older, but I would see if you can jog the motor using the software. I used the Digital Operator and the turning was executed but unlike AMPS like Panasonic or new Yaskawa the motor only turned maybe 2/3 of a revolution and END. Meaning the auto-tune function was completed. But, when I go to JOG the motor it moves smooth with no issues in both directions. Did you try the jog function in the software tool?

    Russ

  10. #30
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Did a quick test(being at work/limited time) with the parameter file you sent and motors seem much happier. No more vibration. But still only ~80 to 90 degrees of rotation then stop. No alarms and no vibration. I tried 3 different motors, 2 of them brand new and 4 different drives, all with same result.
    So tonight I will make a CN1 cable and see if maybe(fingers crossed), the drive is waiting for pulses from a host computer. At this point, I have nothing to lose.
    Autotune is not working for me either and I can't justify the overly huge price of the factory Yaskawa jog pendant, for this one time job.
    This machine is being rebuilt for a friend (so no money being exchanged) and it's taking much longer than I anticipated.
    I'll let you know how it works out.

    Kevin, Pretty cool that little encoder board being looped back to Mach3 and displayed on it's own DRO. Nice touch.

  11. #31
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    /G59

    One thing just hit me.
    Your location seems to be somewhere in Canada.
    What is your mains voltage there? I guess it would be 110V like US??
    The servo amplifier SGDA-02AP is for 220V environment, -02BP is for 110V.
    Likewise, your servo motor is also for 220V. SGM(P)-xxBxxx is for 110V.
    I am not sure if you are using properly matching ones under your environment.

    Kevin

  12. #32
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    I just tested the mains and it reads 240.9 VAC. Tested the mains individually, each split phase measures 120 Vac to Neutral and 240 Vac when measured together.
    The drives I have are SGDA-02AP and the motors are SGMP-02U314M. The drives and motors match the required 220 VAC input +/- 10%.
    I'm not using any line filters on the input as the power line here is very stable and quiet,ie: no noise from large industry or large inductive motors.
    I also tried a different encoder cable with a smaller 100 watt motor and drive and the exact same thing happens.
    So.....hmmm I have to see if feeding it pulses will do anything.
    It's getting late so I'll keep you posted.
    It's good to know you had success. Something to look forward to.

  13. #33
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Good to know you got the right mains for the servos.
    And I think this is pretty positive situation that every different motor/amp shows same symptom,
    which in my thinking servos are not terribly wrong.
    Your trouble is very consistent. Good sign I believe
    .
    I assume you motor's UVW connections are all good, right? But I suggest you to recheck wire colors in the manual.
    Power lines and encoder lines seems good and all swapped hardwares show same thing then it would be somewhere above the servo packs.
    I would probe terminals with an oscilloscope if there is pulse train going into the CN1.

    Then again, you can try software jog within SigmaWin+ to confirm connections between motor and amp is right.
    It doesn't send pulse train. That software simply gives commands to firmware inside amp and it turns.
    By doing this software jog, you will see if all connections of CN2 are good, and you may try digging CN1 only.

    Wish you a good luck.
    Kevin


    ps. I assume your wiring is all good but to make sure, there is a specific instruction on how to solder encoder wires in page323 of SGDA PDF file as belows;

    1-2-3 = signal gnd, 4-5-6 = 24V. You should solder these groups. I happened to solder only 1 & 4 and I remember it didn't work correctly but can't recall how exactly it behaved at that time.
    Attachment 334644

  14. #34
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    G59,
    Attachment 334670

    You can drive these units with 4 wires if you use the differential inputs, Pins 1,2,3,4 and nothing else. If you use singled ended mode you will need three wires, Step/Dir/Gnd.

    You really might want to check the BITS, which are also configuration elements.

    CN01-Bit 0 - this determines if you will need the Servo ON signal from 1CN-14, make is simple and set this to a "1" so you don't need that signal
    CN01-Bits 2,3 this enables the limits for CCW, CW, factory default is to turn these to "1" and disable the inputs from 1CN-16,17
    CN01-Bit 7, this should be set to "1" factory default

    Summary CN01, should only have BITS 0,2,3,7 set to "1" everything else should be "0"

    CN02, controls several other functions you need to check

    CN02-Bit 3,4,5 control the type of position input you will be providing, the factory Default is 0,0,0 which is Sign + Pulse train which is what MACH3 or LINUX will need to work
    CN02-Bit 8 is the motor type, if you have SGM type set to "0", if you have SGMP set to "1"
    CN02-Bit E is the encoder type for most motors this will be set to encoder with 2048 pulse, so this should be set to "0" unless you have an absolute encoder

    There are also things like CN24/25 for electronic gearing but those should normally both be set to "1" so there is no gearing, but should not matter on initial testing.

    I can tell you from experience it is sometimes difficult to get these amplifiers to accept single ended inputs for Step/Direction, if you have a MC3487 differential driver it would be easier. CNC4PC sells little boards that make this easy
    Differential Line Driver

    Hope this helps

    Russ

  15. #35
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    I just saw that I wrote something wrong.
    4/5/6=encoder V+, not 24V. I guess it is 5V.

    Kevin

  16. #36
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Yeah make sure you do NOT put 24V on the encoder or you will be needing a new motor no question.

    In my case I did not connect any power supply to the amplifier just the four differential signals for PULS, PULS-, STEP, STEP- and 120VAC for the SGD-02BP. The power for the encoder comes directly from the Amplifier.

    I could buzz out my factory cable if that would be helpful.

    Russ

  17. #37
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Yesterday I got it jogging via SigmaWin+......well sort of. Can't jog below 500 rpm. Anything above that is OK but not always. It depends where it stops and sometimes hand rotating the motor with the drive off will get it going again once you try to jog again. Or, sometimes just going forward and then reverse will also get it rotating again. The motors at <500 rpm's have no torque. They can barely rotate with no load, and sometimes they stall out, sitting quietly. I tried 4 motors and including the new ones and same crap. Tried it on 3 different SGDA-02AP drives with same settings and same results. Just really odd. Connected the ballscrew and jogged at 1000rpm and it seems rough with chattering noise. More like hammering.
    I've gotta play some more with the tuning.

  18. #38
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    There is clearly something wrong. I can run mine extremely slow like one turn in 5 minutes and it is smooth as silk. It can also go very fast 1000 rpm and in both directions smooth as silk. I will write down my setting, since i did auto tune using the operator and you can try those and see how it works.

    Russ

  19. #39
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    Regardless of servo settings, it should spin through SigmaWin+ with no problem.
    PC jogging does not need pulse/sign so CN1 connector is irrelevant.
    Though you believe cables between motor and amp is set up correctly,
    I have a very strong feeling there might be something wrong.
    If you have tested with same cable between motor-amp so far, it is time to look inside CN2 connectors.

    regards,
    Kevin

  20. #40
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    Re: Mach3/ESS/Yaskawa servo - under construction

    If you have tested with same cable between motor-amp so far, it is time to look inside CN2 connectors.
    I have a feeling you maybe right. Although I'm reusing the original encoder cables that were on the router I noticed it is not of the individual shielded twisted pair. The cable is twisted pair but it is overall shielding. Meaning all conductors are shielded inside the cable, but not in individual pairs. Does that make any sense? On the otherhand why would it work perfectly sometimes and not the other? Also does the cable configuration really affect the torque output?

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