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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    670

    Aluminum Chip Welding

    Normally..... what is the root cause of chip welding?

    Cutting pocket in some aluminum and keep getting chip weld on a 5/16" HSS end mill. 5000 rpm - 26 ipm - .18" doc - .3125" woc.

    I even got chip weld on my finishing pass.

    Thoughts?
    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    The root cause of most chip welding is massively wrong feeds and speeds - either RPM is too high, or feed is too low. Under light chipload, a lot of heat goes into the tool, which eventually gets hot enough to melt the aluminum, resulting in welding. At higher chiploads, the heat goes instead into the chips, and gets carried away. A very common "newbie" mistake when welding is encountered is to reduce feed, or increase RPM, or both, thinking that will make the tools job easier. In fact, it does exactly the opposite. You always want to keep the chipload as heavy as possible. In your case, I would guess your RPM is too high, but also if you're not running coolant, you really need to be. Otherwise, back off on DOC and/or WOC. If you're not using HSMAdvisor for your feeds and speeds, I STRONGLY suggest you pay the very reasonable price and get it right away. It will save you FAR more in tooling costs and time than you will pay for the program. I would not be without it.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    402

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    1. Are you using a 4-flute endmill?
    Those are perfect for chip welding, as not enough room for chip evacuation in Aluminum.
    You should always use a 2-flute endmill in Aluminum, unless you're doing a side-milling finishing pass.
    2. Are you using flood coolant to flush the chips away?
    If not, try using WD-40 as cutting oil, and spray it well.
    3. You're using a 5/16" endmill, with a full 100% WOC?
    You aren't leaving much room for the chips to get out.
    Change your WOC to .156", and climb-cut.
    Hope this helps

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    670

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    The root cause of most chip welding is massively wrong feeds and speeds - either RPM is too high, or feed is too low. Under light chipload, a lot of heat goes into the tool, which eventually gets hot enough to melt the aluminum, resulting in welding. At higher chiploads, the heat goes instead into the chips, and gets carried away. A very common "newbie" mistake when welding is encountered is to reduce feed, or increase RPM, or both, thinking that will make the tools job easier. In fact, it does exactly the opposite. You always want to keep the chipload as heavy as possible. In your case, I would guess your RPM is too high, but also if you're not running coolant, you really need to be. Otherwise, back off on DOC and/or WOC. If you're not using HSMAdvisor for your feeds and speeds, I STRONGLY suggest you pay the very reasonable price and get it right away. It will save you FAR more in tooling costs and time than you will pay for the program. I would not be without it.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    The recipe came from HSM Advisor. Been using it for the past year. Updated this morning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RussMachine View Post
    1. Are you using a 4-flute endmill?
    Those are perfect for chip welding, as not enough room for chip evacuation in Aluminum.
    You should always use a 2-flute endmill in Aluminum, unless you're doing a side-milling finishing pass.
    2. Are you using flood coolant to flush the chips away?
    If not, try using WD-40 as cutting oil, and spray it well.
    3. You're using a 5/16" endmill, with a full 100% WOC?
    You aren't leaving much room for the chips to get out.
    Change your WOC to .156", and climb-cut.
    Hope this helps
    Sorry... 2 Flute - 5/16" HSS EM - no flood but was shooting air right at the slot.
    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Sorry... 2 Flute - 5/16" HSS EM - no flood but was shooting air right at the slot.
    That's probably just too aggressive for no coolant. HSMAdvisor assumes you're using proper coolant, and trying to get the most out of the tool. With no coolant on a deep slotting cut like that, you MUST reduced RPM and feed enough to keep the tool cool. I'd reduce both by half, and see how it does. Always reduce RPM and feed proportionally. Or, as I said, reduce DOC and/or WOC, to make life easier for the tool. That will allow you to keep feedrate higher.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    480

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    With no coolant, reduce your doc and increase feed rate. Slotting with no coolant never comes out well IME. What type of aluminum? . Surprised your getting welding on finish cut though. I use 3% of end mill diameter for finishing stepover. I can finish cut dry without issue.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    670

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    That's probably just too aggressive for no coolant. HSMAdvisor assumes you're using proper coolant, and trying to get the most out of the tool. With no coolant on a deep slotting cut like that, you MUST reduced RPM and feed enough to keep the tool cool. I'd reduce both by half, and see how it does. Always reduce RPM and feed proportionally. Or, as I said, reduce DOC and/or WOC, to make life easier for the tool. That will allow you to keep feedrate higher.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    I'll try this on my next pass.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AUSTINMACHINING View Post
    With no coolant, reduce your doc and increase feed rate. Slotting with no coolant never comes out well IME. What type of aluminum? . Surprised your getting welding on finish cut though. I use 3% of end mill diameter for finishing stepover. I can finish cut dry without issue.
    Finishing was full doc (1/2") with .02" step over. 6061 T6
    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6028

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    A real help is to get a larger pneumatic drip oiler, like for air tools, and plumb that in your air stream. Fill with low grade olive oil and set the oil drip to something like once every 15 seconds or so. You may have to play with nozzle diameters. Think we ended up at about a .100 diameter hole in the nozzle. Built one for my father, and my buddy took my idea and did it on his tormach. Works just as good as the 600 micro drop systems for less than $50. We played with veggie oil, but it has a rancid smell when misted. And a bonus, no rust and a super easy to clean machine.

    Sent from my A3-A20FHD using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    1863
    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    A real help is to get a larger pneumatic drip oiler, like for air tools, and plumb that in your air stream. Fill with low grade olive oil and set the oil drip to something like once every 15 seconds or so. You may have to play with nozzle diameters. Think we ended up at about a .100 diameter hole in the nozzle. Built one for my father, and my buddy took my idea and did it on his tormach. Works just as good as the 600 micro drop systems for less than $50. We played with veggie oil, but it has a rancid smell when misted. And a bonus, no rust and a super easy to clean machine.

    Sent from my A3-A20FHD using Tapatalk
    I would venture a guess that you're getting chip welding because you're feeding in the wrong direction.
    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    540

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    A real help is to get a larger pneumatic drip oiler, like for air tools, and plumb that in your air stream. Fill with low grade olive oil and set the oil drip to something like once every 15 seconds or so. You may have to play with nozzle diameters. Think we ended up at about a .100 diameter hole in the nozzle. Built one for my father, and my buddy took my idea and did it on his tormach. Works just as good as the 600 micro drop systems for less than $50. We played with veggie oil, but it has a rancid smell when misted. And a bonus, no rust and a super easy to clean machine.

    Sent from my A3-A20FHD using Tapatalk
    This is a fantastic idea!!!! I have been messing with several DIY microdrop coolant concepts with marginal success (currently working on a step motor pump concept). This one is so simple that I never gave it a thought until now. I have a new drip oiler in the drawer so going to dig it out now. I love simple solutions.....

    A photo would be great.

    Thank you!
    Robert

  11. #11
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    Oct 2010
    Posts
    670

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Seebold View Post
    I would venture a guess that you're getting chip welding because you're feeding in the wrong direction.
    Both the roughing pass and the finishing pass was done with climb milling (left). Which direction do you suggest?
    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew

  12. #12
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    Mar 2009
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    1863
    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Both the roughing pass and the finishing pass was done with climb milling (left). Which direction do you suggest?
    If you're climb cutting any still getting chip welding, then it's got to be a coolant issue.

    I don't use anything but SwissLube Blazocut 2000 Universal in my machine and I don't have any issues with it.

    I pay about $160.00 for a 5 gallon pail and I run it at about a 8% concentration.

    If you're using a spray coolant, you might try turning up the air pressure to blow ships away or add more lubricant.
    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    255
    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Normally..... what is the root cause of chip welding?

    Cutting pocket in some aluminum and keep getting chip weld on a 5/16" HSS end mill. 5000 rpm - 26 ipm - .18" doc - .3125" woc.

    I even got chip weld on my finishing pass.

    Thoughts?
    As the developer of HSMAdvisor I totally agree with what Ray said.

    My calc assumes you are using coolant when should.
    And when milking aluminum you certainly use coolant.

    Another thing with aluminum is once you get is sticking on your cutting edge, it will want to stick again and it WILL continue marring your surface finish even at lower speeds/engagements. Sometimes even coolant does not help at this point.

    The reason I never bothered to add a no-coolant comp is because there is no way to accurately predict at which parameters this particular aluminum will want to stick to this particular tool.

    Old timers tend to limit cutting speed to 300sfm for dry machining alu. But it is not a 100% solution and can be both underestimating and overestimating depending on various conditions.

    Just use coolant (or a good mister) and never bother about chip welding again.!
    http://zero-divide.net
    FSWizard:Advanced Feeds and Speeds Calculator

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2151

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Was going to say, I recently tried out HSM and found it to provide some great info. Some it I could not believe, but if you have everything setup right with good fixture,coolant,and quality cutters along with the machine in good working order with all critical parts adjusted it cuts most any material I have yet to put in the fixture. Need to get my subscription to this going asap, Just been busy this summer with other projects.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    166

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Use wd40, it has helped a lot for when I get chip weld. It lubricates the tools and stops the aluminum from sticking to the tool.

  16. #16

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by mrquacker View Post
    Use wd40, it has helped a lot for when I get chip weld. It lubricates the tools and stops the aluminum from sticking to the tool.

    I must say. I had this issue today and this was exactly what I was looking for. I was slotting aluminum basically as a poor mans laser cutter on a manual mill. I got the chip welding, 3 and 4 flutes but didn't think 2 flutes would be better. Thank you so much.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    629

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Cutting "Aluminum" doesn't really say what you are cutting. There are many alloys of "Aluminum" and they all cut VERY differently. The alloys that are good for bending and forming are horrible for cutting, 6061 is great for machining but sucks for forming. Knowing which alloy you are machining is important to knowing how to machine it.

    A squirt of WD40 will go a long way to help, however, some alloys just won't cut at all.

    Chris D

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    1788

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    A mist of lubricant/coolant + air blast to clear chips is helpful as is a ZrN coating on the tools.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    1422

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    There's an argument that any coating rounds off the cutting edge slightly and that (for aluminium) the sharpest edge outweighs the benefits of the coating. Just putting it out there

  20. #20
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    Apr 2013
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    1788

    Re: Aluminum Chip Welding

    Yes, I've heard that argument. I think that the counter argument is that extremely sharp edges are delicate and dull fairly quickly. So after a little usage a cutter that was initially extremely sharp will soon be as dull as a coated edge. Flood vs mist vs nothing probably also greatly influences results.

    I use mist only and I've had fewer chip welding problems with ZrN coatings with heavy cuts than with plain carbide that is not the sharpest. The very sharp but uncoated cutters from YG-1 also work well for finish cuts.

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