[NorCal Mfg]

I bought our 3rd Hass this year and its become an absolute nightmare. The next gen software has a lot of cool new things. But unfortunately the beta testers didn't let Haas know it has bugs up the ass.
Most of the problems are intermittent. So its hard to get them on video unless I strap a go-pro to my forehead.

Also, the machine shakes like crazy. (yes it was leveled). New update was installed this week. It didn't fix any of the problems, and I think it added some new problems.

Intermittent issues:
- jog handle in opposite direction doesn't register for the 1st click.
- feeds when its supposed to rapid (in video below)
- 9100.018 non resettable software alarm (more alarms before I started recording them)
- stopped machine mid program, went into x handle jog. Spun the wheel and the z moved appx -1" and then x moved.

Has anyone else experienced these issues with the new 2016 Haas?

Intermittent feed when its supposed to rapid. It also does the intermittent feed when it approaches the part.

[NorCal Mfg]

Machine shakes. Hard to video the vibration. Red Bull can was the best I could come up with.

[carbidecraters]

The engraving looks par for the course. When you using tiny movements the VF2 doesn't have the mass to control the vibration. The acceleration alone causes it to vibrate quite a bit. That will eventually damage the machine. How fast were you engraving? You would think in this day and age they could have FEA'ed that base better. My guess is that they are just trying to make due with the current design and get it as fast and possible. The software side of things...I thought there was a major control update lately.

[mactec54]

I bought our 3rd Hass this year and its become an absolute nightmare. The next gen software has a lot of cool new things. But unfortunately the beta testers didn't let Haas know it has bugs up the ass.
Most of the problems are intermittent. So its hard to get them on video unless I strap a go-pro to my forehead.

Also, the machine shakes like crazy. (yes it was leveled). New update was installed this week. It didn't fix any of the problems, and I think it added some new problems.

Intermittent issues:
- jog handle in opposite direction doesn't register for the 1st click.
- feeds when its supposed to rapid (in video below)
- 9100.018 non resettable software alarm (more alarms before I started recording them)
- stopped machine mid program, went into x handle jog. Spun the wheel and the z moved appx -1" and then x moved.

Has anyone else experienced these issues with the new 2016 Haas?

Intermittent feed when its supposed to rapid. It also does the intermittent feed when it approaches the part.

Post your program and I will run them, if they look safe

[extanker59]

Would have been better to have the new machine run the same program to demonstrate the extra vibration. Can you do that?

When I'm engraving, the small rapids make my older VM2 vibrate too.

Not discounting your experience. Just need more information.
The software bugs look to be very annoying at best and dangerous at worst.
Tell us what you find that fixes the issues please.

[DruMor]

I bought our 3rd Hass this year and its become an absolute nightmare. The next gen software has a lot of cool new things. But unfortunately the beta testers didn't let Haas know it has bugs up the ass.
Most of the problems are intermittent. So its hard to get them on video unless I strap a go-pro to my forehead.

Also, the machine shakes like crazy. (yes it was leveled). New update was installed this week. It didn't fix any of the problems, and I think it added some new problems.

Intermittent issues:
- jog handle in opposite direction doesn't register for the 1st click.
- feeds when its supposed to rapid (in video below)
- 9100.018 non resettable software alarm (more alarms before I started recording them)
- stopped machine mid program, went into x handle jog. Spun the wheel and the z moved appx -1" and then x moved.

Has anyone else experienced these issues with the new 2016 Haas?

Intermittent feed when its supposed to rapid. It also does the intermittent feed when it approaches the part.

Nightmare, bugs up the ass.....yep, that's about par for the course. We got a new EC-1600 at the end of November last year. The control has had problems from the start. Salesman was blowing and going when it was delivered that Haas had been working on the control for 2 years and it was oh so great. If you think your machine is bad, you should have experienced real early versions of NGC

On your vibration, I just ran a part on our 2014 VF-2SS and put a can on it like you showed in the video and ran a part with engraving and it shakes about like yours. I engrave at 64IPM.

While my list of things this machine does is long, the only one that is similar to yours is the non resettable software error. I have gotten several different 9xxx alarms, some resettable, some not. Before our last software update about a month ago, applications told me the next software I was getting was supposed to "greatly reduce 9xxx alarms" So I get my software update, I boot the machine the next morning and get TWO 9xxx alarms, and plus a low air (air was on) and a low AC voltage alarm. I rebooted it and then it worked.

What software are you currently running? From April to August, I was running 100.16.000.1010 and it screwed up several things that previously worked. Last month, I was updated to 100.16.000.1021 and it fixed some things that 100.16.000.1010 created, but then created new problems that previously worked fine. With 100.16.000.1021 if you watch a program in graphics that has probing in it, the program goes off into a loop in never never land trying to turn on the probe, and if you try to restart a program in the middle that has probing at the beginning, it alarms. Both those problems started with 100.16.000.1021. The "time remaining" counter all of a sudden quit working with "1021" also. 1010 had a problem where if you were using G68, it would move the spindle to the rotation point in your G68 line, and THEN it would go to the commanded position, this was fixed in 1021. 1010 also screwed up probing a corner of a block where instead of having corner 1, 2, 3 or 4, you had to use corner 0, 1, 2 or 3, 1021 fixed this also.

I have also have issues with the transmission shifting for the hell of it and ignoring M41/M42 over rides, but with yours being a SS you don't have a transmission to shift funny.

If you haven't already, see the thread I started last winter on NGC problems where I spell out some of the stuff our EC-1600 has done. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas-m...-software.html

[NorCal Mfg]

UPDATE:

-Selway thought the shaking may be happening because it might not be level (even though they leveled it on delivery). Upon their inspection, it was not level and 2 feet were loose. So they re-leveled the machine.

-Yesterday another tech came out and noticed that 2 feet were loose again!! So apparently the machine is shaking its feet loose.

Now my brand new machine needs to be leveled AGAIN. I'm done with all these problems, and its currently OFF... A quality Selway tech thinks it may be the casting. And he said that we may need to anchor the machine. Not only am I working around all the sh!tty next gen control issues... But something may be wrong with the casting.

[NorCal Mfg]

mactec54, I appreciate the help. But to make your life easier, I copied a program directly from page 269 of the Haas manual and used that one for the video below. (obviously I modified it a bit)

O55555
T20M6
G0G90G40G49G59
G0G59X0Y0
S500M3
G43H20 Z0.02
G81G98 Z-0.02 R0.02 F100. L0
G70I5.J15.L12
G80
G0Z.1
G53G49Z0M5
G53Y0
M99


Here is the video running this program. DIFFERENT VIDEO THAN ABOVE

https://youtu.be/MibnX4050ic

[D.D.Machine]

I was in the same boat .
got a new vf4ss in 2014 , got a new vf2ss end of 2015 and ordered a new vf2ss this april and the two older machines run GREAT ,,,, after 7 months of fighting with selway and haas about there new next gen junk control there coming in next week and removing it from my shop ... 35 years in the trade and this new next gen control is the worst control I have EVER worked with ...

Jog does not work right ( jurky )
well not rewind sometimes to start of program ( does not see M30 )
USB works sometimes and not other times
if you jog Z down to set tool offset then push Program select and try jogging thrue the programs the Z axis moves.
Turn on jog lock to face fixtures and it turns its self off when I wants to
turn on jog lock and push coolant and it turns off jog lock
Machine will stop right in the middle of running a parts it has done lots of times before
Spindle will only go to 750 RPM when told to do 12K on a part its ran lots of times .

Bottom line is I think this machine is not safe to run and haas needs to stop selling them before someone gets hurt or killed by the buggy control..

FYI all states have lemon laws

[D.D.Machine]

NorCal
I don`t think the shaking is do to haas trying to make there new control faster ,,, I run the same program in last years vf2ss and its about 5% faster than the new next gen machine ..

One thing I did learn is every time they did a new upgrade it seemed to make even more bugs. 7 months of screwing around with them trying to fix the POS the only thing that got fixed was the jog after 7 months ..... Spend close to 90K on a new machine and it takes them 7 months of screwing with it so you can use the jog wheel with out it jumping.

[DruMor]

I was in the same boat .
got a new vf4ss in 2014 , got a new vf2ss end of 2015 and ordered a new vf2ss this april and the two older machines run GREAT ,,,, after 7 months of fighting with selway and haas about there new next gen junk control there coming in next week and removing it from my shop ... 35 years in the trade and this new next gen control is the worst control I have EVER worked with ...

Jog does not work right ( jurky )
well not rewind sometimes to start of program ( does not see M30 )
USB works sometimes and not other times
if you jog Z down to set tool offset then push Program select and try jogging thrue the programs the Z axis moves.
Turn on jog lock to face fixtures and it turns its self off when I wants to
turn on jog lock and push coolant and it turns off jog lock
Machine will stop right in the middle of running a parts it has done lots of times before
Spindle will only go to 750 RPM when told to do 12K on a part its ran lots of times .

Bottom line is I think this machine is not safe to run and haas needs to stop selling them before someone gets hurt or killed by the buggy control..

FYI all states have lemon laws

I have experienced jerky hand jog movements as well. I think it has even jerked around while running a program. I was drilling holes last week and the Z axis position would be moving as it should, then it would pause for a second or so, then take off again. Start and stop movements are oh so good for carbide drills . And I still have it go to 750RPM instead of commanded speed like yours about once a week or so.

Like you, we also have a 2014 VF-2SS and it runs great. It did require service once when there was a problem with the coupling between the Z servo and the screw.

UPDATE:

-Selway thought the shaking may be happening because it might not be level (even though they leveled it on delivery). Upon their inspection, it was not level and 2 feet were loose. So they re-leveled the machine.

-Yesterday another tech came out and noticed that 2 feet were loose again!! So apparently the machine is shaking its feet loose.

Now my brand new machine needs to be leveled AGAIN. I'm done with all these problems, and its currently OFF... A quality Selway tech thinks it may be the casting. And he said that we may need to anchor the machine. Not only am I working around all the sh!tty next gen control issues... But something may be wrong with the casting.

Oh, so you have leveling problems too. Nice.....:devious: We have had Haas come out and re-level this thing once, and it needs it again. Haas speced the foundation at 12" thick, we poured this one 15" for good measure. The machine is anchored to the floor with Haas' anchor kit. When Haas leveled it last spring, the problem "had to be the concrete settling". I might buy that for the 1st out of level/square, but after hearing about your problems it makes me wonder.

[NorCal Mfg]

I was in the same boat .
got a new vf4ss in 2014 , got a new vf2ss end of 2015 and ordered a new vf2ss this april and the two older machines run GREAT ,,,, after 7 months of fighting with selway and haas about there new next gen junk control there coming in next week and removing it from my shop ... 35 years in the trade and this new next gen control is the worst control I have EVER worked with ...

Jog does not work right ( jurky )
well not rewind sometimes to start of program ( does not see M30 )
USB works sometimes and not other times
if you jog Z down to set tool offset then push Program select and try jogging thrue the programs the Z axis moves.
Turn on jog lock to face fixtures and it turns its self off when I wants to
turn on jog lock and push coolant and it turns off jog lock
Machine will stop right in the middle of running a parts it has done lots of times before
Spindle will only go to 750 RPM when told to do 12K on a part its ran lots of times .

Bottom line is I think this machine is not safe to run and haas needs to stop selling them before someone gets hurt or killed by the buggy control..

FYI all states have lemon laws

Jog does not work right ( jurky ) <---- We had this issue also.

well not rewind sometimes to start of program ( does not see M30 ) <---- We had this issue also. I think the update fixed that for us

USB works sometimes and not other times <---- We had this issue also. Only 1 of our USB's work on this machine

if you jog Z down to set tool offset then push Program select and try jogging thrue the programs the Z axis moves. Havnt seen this one yet.

Turn on jog lock to face fixtures and it turns its self off when I wants to Havnt seen this one yet.

turn on jog lock and push coolant and it turns off jog lock Havnt seen this one yet.

Machine will stop right in the middle of running a parts it has done lots of times before <---- We had this issue also.

Spindle will only go to 750 RPM when told to do 12K on a part its ran lots of times . Havnt seen this one yet.

Definitely not a safe machine.

[NorCal Mfg]

Oh, so you have leveling problems too. Nice.....:devious: We have had Haas come out and re-level this thing once, and it needs it again. Haas speced the foundation at 12" thick, we poured this one 15" for good measure. The machine is anchored to the floor with Haas' anchor kit. When Haas leveled it last spring, the problem "had to be the concrete settling". I might buy that for the 1st out of level/square, but after hearing about your problems it makes me wonder.

Our next machine was going to be the EC-400. Currently looking into other options. I was a big fan of Haas machines and trusted the brand. But I'm done with them. Ive been dicking with this machine for 5 months. Im amazed you have dealt with it for much longer.

[D.D.Machine]

after getting the HFO to take back there POS next -gen machine I looked at a lot of new machines and hands down doosan stood out ... DNM5700 42x22 with 12k spindle, spindle chiller, TSC and TSA and a real chip conveyor for $79,900
I spend the extra 6K to get the LNS micro fine conveyor

[trickeng]

after getting the HFO to take back there POS next -gen machine I looked at a lot of new machines and hands down doosan stood out ... DNM5700 42x22 with 12k spindle, spindle chiller, TSC and TSA and a real chip conveyor for $79,900
I spend the extra 6K to get the LNS micro fine conveyor

Its sad!! I have two BrandNew vf4ss's which can't rigid tap and have finish/tram issues still after 2months. So much for buying new to go faster and higher end work than I can do on 23-26yr old Matsuura's. The next step if they don't fix the rigid tapping issue is they have to go.

[D.D.Machine]

I made them take my POS next-gen machine back ,,,,If one pays close to 90K for a new machine the damm thing had better work right ,,,, all states have consumer laws

[OnePerfectTool]

My issues with Haas started eight months ago when our company bought two Haas machines to expand upon existing lucrative contracts. We have bought many Haas legacy controls in the past and have been reasonably happy with them, accepting the fact the machines are never going to be Jap iron. Haas, historically are reasonable for what you pay for them.

Haas had to go and screw things up with the Next Generation Control--Oh my God, what a piece of garbage. (Let me preface that NGC has some kewl features--but not KEWL enough to keep a machine from making chips. After all, is that not why we buy machines to make parts? Right? Parts pay the bills, not bells and whistles. Face it, a Fadal cuts every bit as good as a Haas for a tenth the price & Jap Iron blows away Haas for about four times the price. Making myself laugh, at least when the Japanese are calling us stupid behind our backs, we do not understand them.)

We are a mid sized production shop, running twenty four hours a day, seven days a week... Our spindles get used a lot making chips from every kind of material you can conceive--except super alloys. Haas just will not cut that stuff with any accuracy. Sorry, getting back on point, the new Haas NGC machines are so fickle/flaky (call it what you want) we have less than a hundred hours on a VF6 in eight months. Just cannot keep the machine working.

Sitting? I call for service... Holy Cow Pie...

Machine Time Savers out of Anaheim (Sorry, cannot help myself--what a bunch of clowns)are telling me that I am stupid because their machines work. Having bought their legacy products for years, maybe they are right--I should have gone with the Mori-Seiki. What gets me going the most, they try to convince you that you are the only one experiencing these problems. That is a bunch of bull. I have two machines that are equally psychotic, neurotic---no,no,no,no.... NGC.... Now Gonna Crash...

Over eight months ownership, had pretty good luck with technicians from MTS--they are legitimely nice people. It is the management at the Anaheim Office that is just ludicrous... (They actually believe the bull they tell you. You know, drank the Kool Aid?) Nine days to get a technician out on a down machine. Prior to that, fifteen days. It would not be half as frustrating if indeed, the damn machines were getting fixed.

I feel bad for the tech guys, they keep patching the new machines--knowing I am getting more frustrated and angrier by day that I spent a third of a million dollars on junk hardware. Another week goes by, then another week goes by, closer and closer to the end of warranty, then we notice some other new weird feature installed.

My favorite is the kiss of death... The entire processor locked up. Had a guy from the factory today, telling me not possible. Wondering if the guy ever used a computer before in his life.

If not one thing, it is the next... I have doors falling off a new machine. Must be we love our six year old VF5 so much more. The VF5, which is perfect in every way, that machine just does not seem to get the level abuse a new eight month old VF6 does... I personally have always hated VF6's...

Seriously, poor quality of the new Haas machine is obvious in the small things. Literally had the Remote Pulse Code Generator fall to the floor with no one near the machine. The plastic holder just broke off, disintegrated. Too, the Emergency Switch is wired into the logic board--God help you if your really need the machine to stop.

Dependent on the software patch loaded, our VF6 computer has gone nutz. Per Haas the computer is no longer talking to the motion controller. I have lots of junk billets and castings that tell another story. Like recently, I had a program running flawlessly for three days--out of nowhere the machine throws a Crazy Ivan. I call for warranty service, because the machine pushed the long billet through the wall--not part of its program. Anaheim Haas MTS Management tells me it was an operator error. Tell me it is not so. What is a good manager to do? I got the guys time card, because of MTS management in Anaheim. I pushed my operator farther, getting his restaurant receipt, because of MTS management in Anaheim. My operator was definitely at lunch, with cameras showing an empty building.

My operator is now in my good graces and I fired Donnie Martin of Haas Anaheim for making up stuff that is just so unbelievable I could not take another second of the guys arrogance. Oh, I forgot, they think I am stupid... Lest I lose my place in life--I will always know where I sit with Haas.

Want a bad experience, buy from Haas MTS in Anaheim. They are your best friends, until you need them.

Cannot wait to hear the derision from the Haas Kool Aid drinkers... I get it, some machinist, Haas is all they know and can afford... To them, I say bring it on... If I can handle the Haas Sales bull year after year--Haas Kool Aid drinkers are going to be light work. Only Mazak owners, Mori owners, Kiwa owners know the joy of cutting at 2500 Surface feet a minute at full cutter depth on a mill... If you only owned Haas, you cannot possibly understand .2 deep cuts on a lathe at .01 thickness.

Do not get me wrong, Haas is trying to stay relevant with technology. Haas just made a huge mistake with the NGC control not being ready. I swear that control will destroy their former good name, I am most sure of it. Gene would roll over in his grave if he knew what the idiots were doing with his good name...