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  1. #1
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    Jun 2005
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    Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    How is Mach 4?

    Can it do everything Mach 3 could?

    Is Mach 4 complete?

    Is Mach 4 stable?

    Thanks,
    BrendaEM

  2. #2
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaEM View Post
    How is Mach 4?
    Probably OK, but at a much higher price.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaEM View Post
    Can it do everything Mach 3 could?
    Most probably not. I would guess that some useful features are removed, or perhaps solved a different way so that users of Mach3 must modify their work flow or configurations.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaEM View Post
    Is Mach 4 complete?

    Is Mach 4 stable?
    What is the definition of "complete" and "stable"? Even Mach3 has it's weaker moments and every software needs an update now and then.

    The way I see the biggest disadvantage of Mach4 vs. Mach3 is the price. It is in my opinion too expensive, so for me there is no interest in it. If I have to buy a new license I might as well try something else, like UCCNC.

  3. #3
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    1267

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    The way I see the biggest disadvantage of Mach4 vs. Mach3 is the price. It is in my opinion too expensive, so for me there is no interest in it. If I have to buy a new license I might as well try something else, like UCCNC.
    I agree. Just don't see myself paying another $200 for a different flavor of a program I have already bought. (Not to mention the extra $25 for parallel port support). Might as well go for "something completely different".

  4. #4
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams View Post
    I agree. Just don't see myself paying another $200 for a different flavor of a program I have already bought. (Not to mention the extra $25 for parallel port support). Might as well go for "something completely different".
    $200 is one thing, that is a fully acceptable price, but the license conditions are totally unacceptable according to me. It is one license per computer it is installed on, so even though I only have one CNC, I can not just plug it in to any of my computers, depending on what I want to do, developing something new to test the G-code air milling, or drawing the work, or milling for real, I would need to buy a license for each of my computers. Also, if I am not wrong, the license is connected to the serial number of the computer so one can no longer just change computer hardware, buy a new computer and carry on using Mach after installation. I think their new license conditions are just crazy. There is no way I buy that software under such license conditions.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Probably OK, but at a much higher price.
    $25 is much higher?
    Can it do everything Mach 3 could?

    Is Mach 4 complete?
    No, it's not complete.

    Eventually, it will do more than Mach3, but right now, probably not.


    $200 is one thing, that is a fully acceptable price, but the license conditions are totally unacceptable according to me. It is one license per computer it is installed on, so even though I only have one CNC, I can not just plug it in to any of my computers, depending on what I want to do, developing something new to test the G-code air milling, or drawing the work, or milling for real, I would need to buy a license for each of my computers.
    You can generate your own license codes, and I believe you can have 5-7 licenses active at any one time, so you can put it on multiple computers.
    If you change PC's, you just generate a new license.
    The licensing is really no different than Mach3 for hobbyist. You just generate a different license code for each PC, rather than use the same license file.
    While I haven't used Mach4 on a machine, I've had a license for two years, and have installed it on multiple PC's.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    1195

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Gerry,
    Do you recommend to purchase mach4 now or wait?

  7. #7
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    $25 is much higher?


    No, it's not complete.

    Eventually, it will do more than Mach3, but right now, probably not.




    You can generate your own license codes, and I believe you can have 5-7 licenses active at any one time, so you can put it on multiple computers.
    If you change PC's, you just generate a new license.
    The licensing is really no different than Mach3 for hobbyist. You just generate a different license code for each PC, rather than use the same license file.
    While I haven't used Mach4 on a machine, I've had a license for two years, and have installed it on multiple PC's.
    Perhaps I misunderstood the license key information when I looked at it, or I read the following also, which made me arrive to the conclusion that it is indeed considerably more expensive than Mach3.

    From Mach4 - Newfangled Solutions

    marketed toward those interested in using CNC machinery for their own personal /non-business use
    My understanding is that it would not allow you to sell anything at all if you have a Hobby license, so even if you don't run a big commercial shop, just financing your hobby and some extras, you are not allowed to use the the Hobby version. So it is actually $825 extra for a version which I can't see any benefits from.

  8. #8
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    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    I haven't really looked at Mach4 at all in the last year, so I don't really know the current state.

    I purchased a license 2 years ago, but have no plans to ever use Mach4 as of right now.

    My understanding is that it would not allow you to sell anything at all if you have a Hobby license, so even if you don't run a big commercial shop, just financing your hobby and some extras, you are not allowed to use the the Hobby version. So it is actually $825 extra for a version which I can't see any benefits from.
    Artsoft has stated multiple times on that the Mach4 hobby license is basically the same as the Mach3 license. You don't have to buy the Industrial version if you're making money.
    I've brought up the issue of the wording on the website, and in their opinion there was no need to change it, even though imo it's completely different than their explanation.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #9
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    Sep 2009
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Ger it's still not there enough yet, there are still a couple of things missing what is stopping me using it
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #10
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    Nov 2012
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    1267

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Those of you who have used both Mach3 and Mach4, can you tell us In a few words what has improved (or going to be improved) in Mach4? What exactly my machine will be doing better if I upgrade to Mach4?

  11. #11

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    I'm going to try Mach4 once they finish it, at the moment it's in Beta in all but name, they're charging for a license so you can report bugs and help them finish it, but that's been going nowhere fairly fast for years now!

  12. #12
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    1723

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    I have been using MACH3 for probably 15 years, shortly after it came out and it has been an amazing piece of software. Art really revolutionized the industry especially on the hobby front with his software. Are there issues with MACH3 absolutely, they stopped providing updates and there are some bugs and anyone who has used it very long has all encountered those unexpected crashes along the way. Still for the price I have been able to make some pretty cool presents and in my case it really has just been a hobby. I waited a very long time for MACH4 to come out it was promised for years and finally appeared a couple years ago in a limited form. I have been playing with it for the last year trying to get one of my machines to do all the stuff that it did under Mach3, since I really do like the screen set on MACH4 much more than Mach3. They claim to have rewritten about 95% of all the code in MACH4, so many bugs have been incorporated in the new version. The people over at newfangled solutions are working to get everything working but releases take more than than back in the days when Art was the primary developer. Probably the biggest issue on MACH4 is the plugin support. There are a hand full of plugins for motion controllers. I have the ESS, which has a plugin that works it has been updated three times since the first version was released for MACH4. The ESS is pretty stable under MACH4. They also have Art's parallel port plugin which costs $25. They also have plugins for expensive motion controllers from Vital Systems, PMDX, Polab Pokeys device, and another one from CNC4PC. Just in the last couple weeks they released the Galil motion controller plugin for another $100. So as you can see they are starting to add more support for motion controllers.

    The new Newfangled Solutions developers have been focused on the commercial side, not a surprise as there is more money on that side. Several users do have basic machines running with MACH4 and some are using them daily. I have all the motion stuff working with the ESS, homing, limits, spindle and they all work great. My biggest hurdle was getting my pendant to work, which is based on a Pokeys56U device, which works perfect under MACH3. Under Mach4 the latest plugins from POLABS are very buggy and their plugin corrupts the code you put inside your pokey device. They have their own pokeys motion controller called 57PokeysCNC which has a plugin for MACH4. Many people have reported lots of bugs, several videos up on youtube.

    The people on the forum who have been using machines with no issues tend to be the ones with the higher end motion controllers like Vital Systems, they apparently are rock solid with MACH4, but the cost to play with that hardware is pretty high. I also understand the parallel port plugin from Art works just fine. I have not purchased my MACH4 licenses but will once the last few hurdles get solved. They guys over at Newfangled Solutions are doing their best to make the new platform solid and with many bells and whistles. Well not no many are available right now. You also will have some new challenges, since they new structure requires you to write code in a new language called LUA. This happens to be a deal breaker for many people, but it is really close to "C" so it is not that difficult to learn and there are many examples provided with the software.

    Probably my biggest complaint about MACH4 is the lack of documentation. If you look at the manuals for MACH3 they are huge and very detailed with many examples on how to hook up things write custom code, etc. Just a very well done set of documentation. The documentation for MACH4 looks like a very early draft. Example go to the section on modbus, it is all blank. You will not find an example of how to hook up a Hitachi VFD to a spindle using modbus anywhere, yet some people have it working. Hooking up a pendant, again if you search you will find some examples that users have provided on the forum but nothing in the manuals. If you want to have a machine with MACH4 is is not an easy exercise, you have to work at it to get things to work. I would stay there are many a dozen or so what I would call extremely knowledgeable users. There could be many more who do not participate on the forums.

    The only advise I could give you is to download the software and play with it on your own hardware and then decide. The learning curve on anything new is always a challenge, but I think you might like much of what you find in the MACH4 software. This is just my two cents others mileage might vary.

    Russ

  13. #13

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Newfangled Solutions are dancing right on the edge with their delays in getting out a good, stable, fully functional release.
    There are already mid to high end fully integrated machine controllers which look better than a professional Mach4 license and a suitable controller, the low end stuff isn't yet in a position to replace a Mach3 installation but given a year or two it probably will be and the market will be transformed and will move on,

    - Nick

  14. #14
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    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Probably my biggest complaint about MACH4 is the lack of documentation. If you look at the manuals for MACH3 they are huge and very detailed with many examples on how to hook up things write custom code, etc. Just a very well done set of documentation.
    The Mach3 manuals were written by a 3rd party.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  15. #15
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    119
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    $200 is one thing, that is a fully acceptable price, but the license conditions are totally unacceptable according to me. It is one license per computer it is installed on, so even though I only have one CNC, I can not just plug it in to any of my computers, depending on what I want to do, developing something new to test the G-code air milling, or drawing the work, or milling for real, I would need to buy a license for each of my computers. Also, if I am not wrong, the license is connected to the serial number of the computer so one can no longer just change computer hardware, buy a new computer and carry on using Mach after installation. I think their new license conditions are just crazy. There is no way I buy that software under such license conditions.
    At a cabinfever seminar i remember the mach guys talking about how piracy was a big issue with mach3. My guess is thats why the license is linked and limited to a certain number of computers.

  16. #16
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Thank you all for the replies. Nice write-up, @Russ.

    The licensing is puzzling: all or nothing. From a traditional marketing standpoint, it seems like a good business decision, but perhaps it's a naive marketing scheme given that many of Mach 3/4s users are likely small-business and cottage business owners.

  17. #17
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaEM View Post
    The licensing is puzzling: all or nothing. From a traditional marketing standpoint, it seems like a good business decision, but perhaps it's a naive marketing scheme given that many of Mach 3/4s users are likely small-business and cottage business owners.
    I agree, "one size fits all" pricing is puzzling. I suspect Art leaves money on the table by undercharging bigger businesses (who would pay more for a full-featured program and premium tech support) and scaring away hobbyists. Having to pay extra for a parallel port plugin probably became the last straw for some of them.

    On the other hand, I am not a businessman, so it's quite possible that I don't see the whole picture.

  18. #18
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Art no longer owns or works for Artsoft. He wrote the parallel port plugin, which is why it's a separate item.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  19. #19
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Art no longer owns or works for Artsoft. He wrote the parallel port plugin, which is why it's a separate item.
    I see. Well, that makes sense then, although I'm sure the DIYers (who are the most likely to use the parallel port interface) are not particularly happy to pay extra.

  20. #20
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    Re: Mach 3 VS Mach 4

    nothing is free
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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