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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Dmm Technology > So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HELP!!
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  1. #41
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    Jan 2005
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    15362

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by lcvette View Post
    I'm not confused at all.. I think you should do some additional research. a second line reactor can go between the VFD and motor and will reduce motor heating and smooth out the wave form, but the primary line reactor needs to go between the supply power source and the Emi filter (pre VFD). The Emi filter isn't going to do anything for harmonics in the lines being back fed due to the VFD and motor. Harmonics are low frequency under 3khz attenuations and are damaging. Rf is your higher frequency 3khz and higher and is more interference problematic. Low frequency harmonics can blow transformers and other supply buffers in components and equipment connected on the same supply line. This includes power company transformers which can be your responsibility to pay for to fix it you are improperly connecting your equipment to their grid. Hence power companies require supply side line reactors in order to be compliant.

    The benefit is this also protects your components connected to the same supply lines as your VFD.
    We manufacture VFD Power Modules, so no what is needed in terms of noise control

    You should start your own thread on the subject, this thread is not about VFD Drives, and you are completely confused on this subject, if you want to be Technical, you will have to do a lot better than your last post, what you are saying in the above post is not correct, you need to know what order of Harmonics you are trying to Filter before you could even say what is needed, he is running a simple 60Hz motor with a max of may be 120Hz out of the VFD the worst Harmonics that he will ever have and anyone else is the 5th and 7th and any good 3% filters will take care of this that is what they are made to do, a Line Reactor serves a different purpose, and in this case it is not needed
    Mactec54

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    1186

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    He isn't complaining about noise, he has blown components.. as per the title of the thread, he is looking for possible conditions that could cause this. This is one of those conditions so I think it's relative to the topic at hand. Now I don't "build vfd's" but I have read more than any one probably needs to in order to learn and understand this area. You are confusing what creates the need for the line reactor and that is the pwm switching frequency and not the motor voltage frequency. If nothing operated above the frequency of a traditional 3 phase motor at twice the frequency output there wouldn't be noise problems. You don't have to dig far too find that power companies require line reactors to be compliant. If they have concerns of damaging their transformers, don't you think there is a risk of damaging a servo drive connected to the same line set? Again I don't build them, but about every recommendation for power wiring a VFD that I have seen (by a company)shows a line reactor. Most technical documents also show the use of a line side line reactor from numerous articles available with a quick Google search.. I'm not making this up but you seem to think I am. Not sure why, especially if you engineer and build them. It's just good safe smart sense to run a line side line reactor.

    To the OP, obviously it's your machine, but I would recommend you take 5 minutes and Google line reactor for VFD. Perhaps you will find some information that explains why you should be running one especially on a computer controlled or PLC operated system running off the same supply lines as your VFD, It goes beyond simple annoying noise.

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  3. #43
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    Jan 2005
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    15362

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by lcvette View Post
    He isn't complaining about noise, he has blown components.. as per the title of the thread, he is looking for possible conditions that could cause this. This is one of those conditions so I think it's relative to the topic at hand. Now I don't "build vfd's" but I have read more than any one probably needs to in order to learn and understand this area. You are confusing what creates the need for the line reactor and that is the pwm switching frequency and not the motor voltage frequency. If nothing operated above the frequency of a traditional 3 phase motor at twice the frequency output there wouldn't be noise problems. You don't have to dig far too find that power companies require line reactors to be compliant. If they have concerns of damaging their transformers, don't you think there is a risk of damaging a servo drive connected to the same line set? Again I don't build them, but about every recommendation for power wiring a VFD that I have seen (by a company)shows a line reactor. Most technical documents also show the use of a line side line reactor from numerous articles available with a quick Google search.. I'm not making this up but you seem to think I am. Not sure why, especially if you engineer and build them. It's just good safe smart sense to run a line side line reactor.

    To the OP, obviously it's your machine, but I would recommend you take 5 minutes and Google line reactor for VFD. Perhaps you will find some information that explains why you should be running one especially on a computer controlled or PLC operated system running off the same supply lines as your VFD, It goes beyond simple annoying noise.

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk
    I posted a photo of how most VFD manufactures recommend there VFD Drives to be wired

    You need to go back to the first Post, he was not running his machine no VFD was involved, so he had no problems with electrical noise, so what you are posting has nothing to do with what this thread was about
    Mactec54

  4. #44
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    Aug 2008
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    1186

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I posted a photo of how most VFD manufactures recommend there VFD Drives to be wired

    You need to go back to the first Post, he was not running his machine no VFD was involved, so he had no problems with electrical noise, so what you are posting has nothing to do with what this thread was about
    As advised I went back and read, I see he has the test board setup but also a full cabinet with VFD. I stand by the use of a line reactor pre VFD. But age this isn't his problem if he had not run the VFD.

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    63

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Sorry to hear about your problems - hope you get them sorted out soon.
    I blew over 30 MCU's before I gave up on my previous attempt - some of them "grew" a nice square hole in them....

  6. #46
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    Dec 2009
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    521

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    SO, its been over a month. I would like to know where you ended up with this issue and what DMM had to say about the drives you returned.
    Please finish the thread with the solution or is it still unsolved? Even if it was Pilot error, its better for you to let the folks that watched or helped how you made out and what resolved it IF it is resolved?

  7. #47
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    May 2010
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    48

    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty_Escarcega View Post
    SO, its been over a month. I would like to know where you ended up with this issue and what DMM had to say about the drives you returned.
    Please finish the thread with the solution or is it still unsolved? Even if it was Pilot error, its better for you to let the folks that watched or helped how you made out and what resolved it IF it is resolved?
    hi sorry for the delay

    funds werent right so had to wait to ship them back
    DMM didnt have much to say other than they were over voltaged or over currented lol
    they are sending me two new drives at their cost - ~80 bucks a pop
    which to me isnt bad as it was probably my fault

    im not done with this thread im just in a holding pattern lol
    i will update when i get the drives and get going again

  8. #48
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    Dec 2009
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by GM1G View Post
    hi sorry for the delay

    funds werent right so had to wait to ship them back
    DMM didnt have much to say other than they were over voltaged or over currented lol
    they are sending me two new drives at their cost - ~80 bucks a pop
    which to me isnt bad as it was probably my fault

    im not done with this thread im just in a holding pattern lol
    i will update when i get the drives and get going again
    Great service on their part, I doubt they will do that again so I trust you will double check everything before you reconnect? Thanks for the update. I'd like to know how it goes.
    Marty

  9. #49
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    Jul 2010
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    43
    Hello all
    I wouldnt mix the 110 with the 220 on the drives you could inadvertently create a ground loop with the neutral of the 110 to the 220. Use 220 for both control power and rectifier power to drives. Anything using 110 in your setup should have a neutral that is isolated all the way to the source(main breaker panel) where to code it is bonded to ground.

  10. #50
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by LtDan View Post
    Hello all
    I wouldnt mix the 110 with the 220 on the drives you could inadvertently create a ground loop with the neutral of the 110 to the 220. Use 220 for both control power and rectifier power to drives. Anything using 110 in your setup should have a neutral that is isolated all the way to the source(main breaker panel) where to code it is bonded to ground.
    A great example of how it should be done, nice job of wiring your cabinet

    You should do a list of what component's you used, this would help those that are unsure of what to use for Breakers Etc
    Mactec54

  11. #51
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    Jul 2010
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    I know what dmm recommends is for 120v application and is still a little overkill. I acually tested current draw on there drives before purchasing breakers contactors fuses etc. I will post components in my thread. Thank you Mactec54
    My machine thread will be in shoptask although its not much of a shoptask anymore gotta love .0001 repeatabilty!!! Anyway I posted to this thread to help this guy. I would crap a cracker if I was in his shoes lol sorry. BTW I work with rexroth drives and linear motors everyday at work and the price comparison well there is none. I love these components.

  12. #52
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    To GM1G lets keep everything in the post so the info can help others. Lets start from the main panel your main power cable. (Question) It should have 3 wires plus a ground if your wanting to use 240v and 120v to your control cabinet. as far as wiring schematic for logic and main rectifier power on the drives DMM's schematic is correct so follow it. Anything in your control that has a nuetral for 120v should not loop to a ground anywhere. example disconnect your main incoming power cable. now using a multimeter put it on impedance/ohms put a probe on the main ground wire or cabinet as this should be. Now put the other probe on a nuetral that is used for 120v and test all the neutrals if any of them show a connection bad things can happen!


    I did do a test last night as far as mixing the 2 voltages. This is bad it did create a loop to ground from the neutral to the rectifier(main power to drive) so do not mix. use 240v on both. benefit optimum performance from drive n motor
    FYI my 240v measures 248volt some Drive internals have a max rating that I see of 300v
    I'll wait for a reply.

  13. #53
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    May 2010
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by LtDan View Post
    To GM1G lets keep everything in the post so the info can help others. Lets start from the main panel your main power cable. (Question) It should have 3 wires plus a ground if your wanting to use 240v and 120v to your control cabinet. as far as wiring schematic for logic and main rectifier power on the drives DMM's schematic is correct so follow it. Anything in your control that has a nuetral for 120v should not loop to a ground anywhere. example disconnect your main incoming power cable. now using a multimeter put it on impedance/ohms put a probe on the main ground wire or cabinet as this should be. Now put the other probe on a nuetral that is used for 120v and test all the neutrals if any of them show a connection bad things can happen!


    I did do a test last night as far as mixing the 2 voltages. This is bad it did create a loop to ground from the neutral to the rectifier(main power to drive) so do not mix. use 240v on both. benefit optimum performance from drive n motor
    FYI my 240v measures 248volt some Drive internals have a max rating that I see of 300v
    I'll wait for a reply.

    what size wires are you supplying the rectifier side of the drives with?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM1G View Post
    what size wires are you supplying the rectifier side of the drives with?
    How far is the run of wire from the main source?
    Mine is 60ft so from main panel to control box outlet is 8awg in the box is 12awg all depends on amp draw and voltage drop.
    There are plenty of calculators online to calculate this.

  15. #55
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by LtDan View Post
    How far is the run of wire from the main source?
    Mine is 60ft so from main panel to control box outlet is 8awg in the box is 12awg all depends on amp draw and voltage drop.
    There are plenty of calculators online to calculate this.
    i was gona run #10/4 about 30 feet then #12's split to the drives

  16. #56
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Add all your amperage and then use a calculator. if your using 3 750w drives and a 2hp minimum motor i would run the 8awg

  17. #57
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by LtDan View Post
    Add all your amperage and then use a calculator. if your using 3 750w drives and a 2hp minimum motor i would run the 8awg
    this run will be just for the 3 drives and 3 750w servos

    the vfd is on a separate circuit

  18. #58
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Well its been awhile, so hows your project going?

  19. #59
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by LtDan View Post
    Well its been awhile, so hows your project going?

    after a lot of procrastination as far as buying conduit and wire

    i finally did and was running and hanging it today

    ive had my replacement drives and motors back from dmm for a few months now

    so im working on it

  20. #60
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    Nov 2007
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    Re: So Far I've managed to Blow up 3 DYN4 drives - Please Critique my wiring..... HE

    Quote Originally Posted by GM1G View Post
    after a lot of procrastination as far as buying conduit and wire

    i finally did and was running and hanging it today

    ive had my replacement drives and motors back from dmm for a few months now

    so im working on it
    @ GM1G what ever happen ? There hasnt been a update in a while ..?????????

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