[dgage]

I have a business building large home theater subwoofers. I currently use Sketchup to design and then import into VCarve Pro to do toolpaths (own latest versions of both). I've seen the recent videos and info regarding Fusion 360 and figured I should investigate it. It looks like Fusion 360 would give me some advantages against Sketchup in terms of designing a true 3D model with the ability to do interference fits (it is hard to see overlaps in Sketchup). And using 1-tool would likely give me an advantage vs importing Sketchup files into VCarve Pro. So on the top it seems like Fusion 360 is the best tool for me but the details always reveal themselves. I understand there will be a learning curve and transition period but I'm wondering if there are any gotchas with Fusion 360 or any functionality that I might miss? Thanks.

EDIT - This will be used on a CNCRP 5x10 Pro (Linear bearings upgrade arrives this Friday)

David

[CRP]

Hi David,

Yes, It is difficult to gauge the "workflow transition costs" versus the promise of new features, user experience, pricing models, and capabilities. I think sometimes CAD tools are kinda like cameras, the best one is the one you have/know how to use.

That said, one potential workflow you might consider is Fusion360 as your 3D CAD tool and VCarve PRO as your CAM tool. I think that would give you a nice balance of 3D modeling/interference check capabilities and great ease of use/"it just works" on the CAM side.

We clearly believe Fusion 360 is a great 3D mechanical CAD/CAM tool, however one thing you may or may not know is that it is not particularly well suited (in my opinion) for artistic / lots of vector art type work.. complex V-carved signs, reliefs, etc. are better left to purpose built software like Vectric's suite.

Beyond having a CAM tool (Vectric) that was built for this kind of work and is very good at it, like I said if you ever need to do reliefs, artistic 2.5D, things with lots of vectors - keeping VCarve PRO in your toolchain helps ensure you can always make cool/well-fitting parts but can also easily add artistic elements (if needed).

That is my typical workflow when creating boxes/3D assemblies of 2D sheets.. as we did in our Bird House project video. This starts with me importing the panel vectors from Fusion.
https://youtu.be/oOQxSQ_zUZ8

Looking forward to hearing other perspectives on this.

Enjoy your upgraded machine!


-Nathan

[daniellyall]

CRP you are very correct I do just that with fusion use it for everything other than V carving that is what Vcarve pro is very good at and fusion is not.

fusion's cam is way faster than vectrics but vector art that's Vcarve again.

David it is worth your time to learn fusion and keep Vcarve pro, there are somethings that Vcarve can not do and fusion kicks arse.
cabinet making is very easy in fusion you can make one cabinet and that's all you need to do and you can make it into any size cabinet you wont it's parametric.

[TwoWheelMikee]

I agree with both previous replies... Fusion 360 is a great solution to the CAD/CAM question.

I recently made the switch from Sketchup (7+ year user) to Fusion due to the lack of CAM support. After several frustrating evenings and lots of swear words, I have begun to pick up Fusion. The modeling environment is way different! But I am starting to like it. I am now turning to it first. Plus it seems to be more compatible with other modeling formats. There is something to be said about being able to tweak your model while building your tool path recipes.

Couple of caveats though: Fusion is very mill centric, not orginally designed for the router crowd. Cutting components from sheet goods is not something Fusion does naturally. There are several work arounds but I still haven't nailed down my work flow. (I'd be curious to hear other's inputs on that)

The engraving/vcarve function needs a lot of work before it can be compared to Vectric software. So for sign making and what not, go with Vetric.

With tons of support, hours and hours of tutorials, and the ease of the parametric modeling enviroment, Fusion 360 is quickly becoming the sole software I use... after they fix the terrible engraving function and develop a native nesting feature.

Ps, not to mention the tons of other functions/workspaces Fusion brings to the table.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[dgage]

Thanks all. I will definitely learn Fusion360 for my modeling and keep VCarve around for the CAM portion.

But that brings up an interesting point since TwoWheelMike is using Fusion360 for CAM as well. What makes VCarve so much more effective at CAM for sheet goods?

Thanks - David

[TwoWheelMikee]

I wouldn't say that Vcarve is better for sheet goods. In fact, I prefer Fusion, even with the extra steps required. I use Fusion CAM for everything, except for engraving/vcarving. The CAM function in Fusion 360 is really very good. There is alot going with it, and at first was a bit overwhelming for me. Once I figured how to setup my cuts and what works best on my machine, it quickly became my go to.



Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[dgage]

Great. Thanks for the feedback Mike!

[CRP]

Hi David,

I agree with TwoWheelMike - though I'll make a few additional points;

1) VCarve CAM auto-nesting of parts and sheet setup is very good (for example - Fusion doesn't have auto-nesting built-in, though one could write one using their API).
2) Generally speaking, many find VCarve less intimidating and easier to use (as much b/c it doesn't have all the options that Fusion CAM does than for any other reason).
3) Fusion CAM is runs on a very extensive industrial grade multi-axis CAM kernel - very little it can't do if you are willing to put a more time into it to learn.


I'll shamelessly post some of our Fusion CAM videos if you want to check those out to see E2E how things flow. These are the second parts to the respective sample project video (Solid Body Guitar and Wine Glass Holders).
https://youtu.be/-t9ByUkrreI

https://youtu.be/JRlSPn5SFTg

Our Fusion 360 Playlist

-Nathan

[daniellyall]

like Mike says fusion is a mill lathe program but it can do what is needed on a router I use it on 2 router and a 3D printer. I still use Vcarve for V carving and sign making if the letter's go along the Y axis fusion is setup for X, Y it's all over the show.

now if you are cabinet making the only thing better is a cabinet making program. what is in the 000 + range.

fusion can do it very well you just have to make the library of cabinet types yourself, once it's done it's easy as to change any cabinet type from your library the only thing is you have to do the nesting it is coming to fusion maybe 2018. there is a work around for it. have a look at this vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0hmB_KKJZs

and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wfC4UTkEJs and there are other cabint makeing one's on the same channell.


also with fusion cam it is faster than vectrics, you can do 100% width and 100% depth of cuts with a 1/2 inch cutter with fusion (found out by mistake and left it going) do that with vectric you will destroy the cutter very fast.
I will never drop V carve pro it is my back up program and does what fusion does not have.

[daniellyall]

Nathan there is a problem with a lot of your vids they are missing one very important rule RULE 1 Fusion 360 R.U.L.E #1 and #2 - Autodesk Community

[SteveWill]

I am now learning / checking out F360. There is a lot to like. This is a hobble for me so it is free now but what will they do a year from now. What will I do if they raise the price to $12K a year ( that would be a lost of drawing), I wish there was a little more known about what will happen a year from now or 5 years. The lack of Documentation is making it harder to learn It would be nice to have a manual that you could look stuff up. They are big into video, that nice but when you have a problem a book would be nice.

[daniellyall]

there is a book out there you have to pay for it there is also some online courses available and the forum. ask this on the fusion forum the staff know where most off this info is. and there is the lean section on the forum as well. I can't find my list at the moment

[CRP]

Nathan there is a problem with a lot of your vids they are missing one very important rule RULE 1 Fusion 360 R.U.L.E #1 and #2 - Autodesk Community

Hi Daniellyall,

Thanks for the feedback. Rule 1, as you call it, is a good tip, however is intended as a suggestion for parametric designs - less relevant to direct-model designs as most our projects are.

The video (of ours) that demonstrates the parametric Fusion 360 design workflow (the guitar video) which we have a thread on the Autodesk forum if you have any questions regarding the modeling --> Guitar design and manufacture using Fusion 360 and CNC - Autodesk Community. Jeff and I are both active there.

https://youtu.be/TrLUaoIe48A?list=PL...KsZg0wEsVbOgkj

Thanks!

-Nathan

[CRP]

In terms of learning content. I'd recommend checking out;

1) the official Fusion 360 Learning Page Learn Fusion 360 in 60 Minutes | 3D CAD/CAM Modeling Tutorials There has been a significant effort to centralize and link quality learning content there.
2) Online help pages are accessible in-product have good write-ups on many settings and errors
3) The user Fusion 360 design forum is a excellent / very active community (also one for CAM) https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360/ct-p/1234
4) The in-product sample tutorials are also good





-Nathan

[daniellyall]

I know I read that post. and it's not what I called it trippy did that

[Kosh]

By way of another recommendation, I don't have much experience outside of F360 other than playing with TurboCad years ago, and a little sketchup. But I went down the F360 path to aid in acoustic guitar building, and it's def been able to do everything I needed.

Just don't forget the "RULE 0.5" with F360.... "Save early, Save often". I have a propensity to crash that thing several times a night sometimes.

Here are some pictures of the build I'm finishing up , the first one to use CNC in a major way. In the pictures below, F360 and the CNCRP Pro were used to:

- carve the bridge
- Carve the neck (including heel and headstock)
- inlay the Carbon Fiber "D-Tube" truss rod
- Cut and inlay the entire fretboard, including fret slots that stop short of the sides for a "faux bound" look
- provide locator pins for the fretboard on the neck
- drill and thread tap the holes for the threaded inserts in the neck
- cut the head block and tail block
- all bending forms and body molds for the body were CNC'd
- Rosette inlay
- inlay on the shoulder of the guitar

- and the one I'm most proud of... the CNCRP even profiled the sides for me... the beveled armrest cutaway (including the internal blocking for that). and even profiled the sides on the back
(to a 15' radius all around) so that the back in on perfect when it came off the machine.

Attachment 337094
Attachment 337096
Attachment 337098
Attachment 337100
Attachment 337102

[CRP]

By way of another recommendation, I don't have much experience outside of F360 other than playing with TurboCad years ago, and a little sketchup. But I went down the F360 path to aid in acoustic guitar building, and it's def been able to do everything I needed.

Wow, that is awesome! The beveled armrest cutaway is great. If you don't mind I'm going to send our local luthier club a link to these pictures.

Great point - and reminds me of a PSA regarding crashing: If you are (or anyone) experiencing consistent crashes - odds are others are too. The Fusion team has demonstrated a industry-leading interest in actively triaging user crash reports and acting on them but they need you to hit "Send Report" in order to see them. While you are sending your report you can also help by putting in a few quick words to help guide the triage, such as "I was doing x when it crashed".
Attachment 337108


+1 On saving your design - especially after doing something clever! You might add some comments too because each time you hit save you are creating a new version-instance of your design, your comments might make it easier if you ever need to go back / fork or return to a earlier version.

You can also configure your auto-recovery save time - in user preferences, by default every 5 minutes. So every 5 minutes it will save your active documents to your local hard-drive and if the application crashes you'll be able to re-open the auto-recovered version and save it to the cloud as a new version.

-Nathan

[Kosh]

Wow, that is awesome! The beveled armrest cutaway is great. If you don't mind I'm going to send our local luthier club a link to these pictures.

here is the link to my actual blog: AHS Band Boosters Guitar Raffle

BTW Nathan, that is Curly Myrtle from your neck of the woods. (http://www.oregonwildwoods.com)

(Forgot to add the the CNCRP also inlayed that back strip for me!).

Attachment 337122

[dgage]

Beautiful and intricate work! Thank you for sharing what you've done and what the CNCRP system is capable of.

Can anyone speak to the pros and cons of using Fusion 360 to create toolpaths for sheet goods vs exporting to VCarve Pro and creating the toolpaths there? I've already started playing with Fusion 360 but I'm having a hard time understanding the differences in toolpathing with the two products besides nesting, which currently requires convoluted workarounds in F360. Asked a different way, besides nesting and picture carving, it looks like Fusion 360 handles normal CNC operations in plywood just fine so I can retire VCarve from my normal CNC workflow and use it primarily for picture carving.

Really excited by Fusion 360, especially the parametric functionality to easily modify an enclosures size. Thanks all.

David

[bonesbr549]

I agree with both previous replies... Fusion 360 is a great solution to the CAD/CAM question.

I recently made the switch from Sketchup (7+ year user) to Fusion due to the lack of CAM support. After several frustrating evenings and lots of swear words, I have begun to pick up Fusion. The modeling environment is way different! But I am starting to like it. I am now turning to it first. Plus it seems to be more compatible with other modeling formats. There is something to be said about being able to tweak your model while building your tool path recipes.

Couple of caveats though: Fusion is very mill centric, not orginally designed for the router crowd. Cutting components from sheet goods is not something Fusion does naturally. There are several work arounds but I still haven't nailed down my work flow. (I'd be curious to hear other's inputs on that)

The engraving/vcarve function needs a lot of work before it can be compared to Vectric software. So for sign making and what not, go with Vetric.

With tons of support, hours and hours of tutorials, and the ease of the parametric modeling enviroment, Fusion 360 is quickly becoming the sole software I use... after they fix the terrible engraving function and develop a native nesting feature.

Ps, not to mention the tons of other functions/workspaces Fusion brings to the table.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

U did not like sketchucam for sketchup?