[jwilcott]

I just received a machine from fastcnc.com, but I'm not totally sure how to wire it up. I'm in the USA. Any suggestions would be very helpful, thanks!

Here is a link to larger photos: https://goo.gl/photos/TiX4wq69A5nMaUaV8

[CNCMAN172]

From the photo it appears the machine was designed for a three phase service based on the four pole breaker. Most VFDs that come from China can run a 3KW spindle on 220V single phase. Clearly the vacuum pump will need three phase service. Check the VFD manual before wiring up the system and the machine manual to see if you have to make wiring changes if running on 380 VAC.

If you have little or no documentation follow the wires from the breaker to see how they wired it up. They must have a transformer to get the low voltage the controller requires. Make sure you check things very carefully prior to powering the system up.

Nice looking machine

Russ

[mactec54]

From the photo it appears the machine was designed for a three phase service based on the four pole breaker. Most VFDs that come from China can run a 3KW spindle on 220V single phase. Clearly the vacuum pump will need three phase service. Check the VFD manual before wiring up the system and the machine manual to see if you have to make wiring changes if running on 380 VAC.

The 4 pole breaker would not be the for the 3Ph power, that is for each of the drives, the Grey/black starter in the center is for the single phase or 3 phase supply

[mactec54]

jwilcott

The main thing to check is how the Transformer is wired the input power should be marked for 220v or 380v

For the input power supply you will have a L1 and a L2 Plus a Ground wire to connect, L1 and L2 being both Hot wires for 240v USA supply

It clearly shows that it can run on single phase

The vacuum pump can also run on a another VFD if you needed to run it on single phase

[CNCMAN172]

Mac,
Look closely at the started solenoid in the center and you will notice it is already wired on both sides. Looking at the bottom of the solenoid you see red wires going down probably over to the 4-pole breaker.

Using a VFD for the vacuum pump would require a very large VFD. Most of those large vacuum pumps run at one speed and consume 60A.

Just my guess based on the photos

Russ

[mactec54]

Mac,
Look closely at the started solenoid in the center and you will notice it is already wired on both sides. Looking at the bottom of the solenoid you see red wires going down probably over to the 4-pole breaker.

Using a VFD for the vacuum pump would require a very large VFD. Most of those large vacuum pumps run at one speed and consume 60A.

Just my guess based on the photos

Russ

The point was there would not be a 4 pole breaker for a 3 Phase supply circuit, it would only be a 3 Pole, what you see is the 4 Pole breaker being supplied from the input supply which is part of the single phase/ 3 phase supply

Some on here are running a VFD with there vacuum pump up to 15 Hp is fine, but by the look of his shop he most likely has 3 phase power anyway, so that part should not be a problem

[CNCMAN172]

The point was there would not be a 4 pole breaker for a 3 Phase supply circuit, it would only be a 3 Pole, what you see is the 4 Pole breaker being supplied from the input supply which is part of the single phase/ 3 phase supply

Some on here are running a VFD with there vacuum pump up to 15 Hp is fine, but by the look of his shop he most likely has 3 phase power anyway, so that part should not be a problem

Yeah, I agree his shop does look to be a commercial building so three phase power should be available. I never seen a VFD that can use single phase input to output three phase for 15HP. Everything I have seen requires three phase input if the output is over 4HP.

The good thing about using 380V three phase is the breakers sizes will be smaller. He did not say if he has a manual but many times you have to wire the transformer differently when using 380V or 220V, usually just connecting different groups of wires. But on a Chinese machine I am not certain.

Russ

[mactec54]

Yeah, I agree his shop does look to be a commercial building so three phase power should be available. I never seen a VFD that can use single phase input to output three phase for 15HP. Everything I have seen requires three phase input if the output is over 4HP.

The good thing about using 380V three phase is the breakers sizes will be smaller. He did not say if he has a manual but many times you have to wire the transformer differently when using 380V or 220V, usually just connecting different groups of wires. But on a Chinese machine I am not certain.

Russ

I think there might be a typo with the 380V 3 Phase, that would mean the VFD would have to be 380v rated and that would not perform very good on 220v single phase

Any 3 Phase VFD can run on Single Phase up to the max amperage that you have available for the input, some have Phase sensing, but there are ways around this, just by adding a wire in the right place

[CNCMAN172]

I think there might be a typo with the 380V 3 Phase, that would mean the VFD would have to be 380v rated and that would not perform very good on 220v single phase

Any 3 Phase VFD can run on Single Phase up to the max amperage that you have available for the input, some have Phase sensing, but there are ways around this, just by adding a wire in the right place

"The vacuum pump can also run on a another VFD if you needed to run it on single phase - Mactec54"

My response on the VFD was in response to your comment above. Hard to find a single phase input VFD that could support a vacuum pump of that size.

Agree on the voltage typo on 380V, which seems non-standard at least around the USA. I did check their website and they list that same voltage on many of their other machines.

I figured it was someone dyslexia and it was possible supposed to say 308V, which is much more common in the USA.

Russ

[jwilcott]

I got an update from the seller with a wiring diagram. They also confirmed the machine is wired to accept AC380V,3 phases, not AC220V,1 phase. Could someone share a diagram on how to setup AC380v 3p for L1, L2, L3 and N in the US.

Attachment 337052
Attachment 337054

[mactec54]

I got an update from the seller with a wiring diagram. They also confirmed the machine is wired to accept AC380V,3 phases, not AC220V,1 phase. Could someone share a diagram on how to setup AC380v 3p for L1, L2, L3 and N in the US.

Attachment 337052
Attachment 337054

What is your supply in your shop, you most likely will need a Transformer to get the 380v, looking at what you have in the wiring diagram, you will need a 5 wire supply 3 Hot a Neutral and Ground, that is if you are needing to use 380v,I see where the supply splits to the machine transformer which is a lower voltage supply

You will also have to check that it can run on 60Hz, 380v from China will be for 50Hz

[jwilcott]

The seller says 60Hz is ok. I'm looking into transformers and I'm thinking I'll need 45KVA to run the machine, vacuum pump, and dust collection. The vaccum pump and dust collection both require 380v 3 phase, but I'm wondering if they would run at 240v 3 phase. Then I can get a smaller transformer. What are your thoughts on running the dust collection and vacuum pump at lower voltages. Would they just run slower or would it cause damage.

[mactec54]

The seller says 60Hz is ok. I'm looking into transformers and I'm thinking I'll need 45KVA to run the machine, vacuum pump, and dust collection. The vaccum pump and dust collection both require 380v 3 phase, but I'm wondering if they would run at 240v 3 phase. Then I can get a smaller transformer. What are your thoughts on running the dust collection and vacuum pump at lower voltages. Would they just run slower or would it cause damage.

If they are designed to run at 380v only then they would perform poorly if run on 240v, and may over heat ( lower air flow ) because of the slower speed they would run at

Don't get the Transformer to small, the minimum of 20% above what you need, the Vacuum Pumps that size can be power hungry

[jwilcott]

Thanks Mactec54.

I was talking with an electrician and he suggested a 380v 3 phase 45KVA transformer to run the spindle, vacuum pump, dust collection, and water chiller. We called around and found one company that can build me the transformer for $2500 USD + labor to hook everything up to a dedicated 100 amp panel. It might be cheaper for me to just replace all the components with 220v equivalents and hook it up myself.

So I'd like to run a test before I decide what to do. I'm wondering if I can run a 220v line into the small black transformer. That may power up the motor controllers, VFD, but not the spindle. If I can get the machine to move with NC studio, I can replace the spindle, vacuum pump, and dust collection with 220v equivalents and avoid purchasing a 380v 45KVA transformer.

Thoughts? Also here is a picture showing how I might run the 220v wire:



Also the small black transformer's label reads "220v - 70v" The two lines going into the small transformer are directly from the 4 pole breaker. 1 hot (red), 1 neutral (black). I'm guessing 220v based on the label, but it's really just one of the hot lines coming off of the 4 pole breaker. So if I did have a 380v 3 phase transformer, what would be the voltage for one of the hot lines? Is it just 380 / 3 = 126.666? Or is each line 380v? Then wouldn't that be too much for the small black transformer with the label "220v" ?

[CNCMAN172]

Everything in your machine can run from single phase power except the VFD and Spindle. If you have a close up of the black transformer we can determine if it can run on 220V. The machine your purchased was clearly setup to run in China where 380V three phase power is more common. I notice they list their machine for 220V and 380V on many suppliers. Probably other parts of the world also use 380V.

Anyway the servo drivers or stepper drives whatever is installed in bottom of the cabinet as well as all the electronics should all be able to run on single phase power.

Russ

[gfacer]

My Machine in fact has 2 transformers, one for 220v 3ph at the panel to 380v on the machine, but then another for 380v down to 220 (maybe 200) in the cabinet for the servos and other components......its weird, but 220v 3ph and a new VFD might be the best bet for you, maybe new contactors and breakers too I guess, you'd have to look. Close up the the transformer labeling is key.

I think only the spindle and a toolchange motor actually use 380 on mine...maybe dust collector too if I had one set up. You actually might be able to keep the VFD and spindle wiring as-is if you then turn the transformer around, 220v in and 380 out??? beyond my actual knowledge, but worth asking about, this is assuming spindle is actually using the 380

[jwilcott]

I got a close up picture of the small black transformer. It reads 220v. So then why would one of the lines from the 380v input be running into this small 220v transformer? Wouldn't that be too much for it to handle?

Attachment 339794

[mactec54]

I got a close up picture of the small black transformer. It reads 220v. So then why would one of the lines from the 380v input be running into this small 220v transformer? Wouldn't that be too much for it to handle?

Attachment 339794

Because that would of been a single phase connection, NA uses 2 Hot wires and Ground for 240v Single Phase connection, most other countries have 1 Hot neutral Ground is there 220/230v Single Phase connection

So what you would do is connect 2 Hot wires and a Ground, and you will have the same as what they have wired

[jwilcott]

I'm still confused why a 380v line (L3) would go into this small 220v transformer?

[gfacer]

In North America, 220V single phase is/can be? 2x110v connections. therefore, you can take one of those and have a 110v power line.

Likewise, 380 (single) is 2 x 220V (ish?, I don't quite get why 2x220 is 380) lines and one can be taken off for the 220v (1ph) power line if needed, which is what you are seeing.
AC 3phase is the same plus a third that is out of "phase" with the others and hence gives a higher voltage difference in the end (think -120 and +120 = 240 voltage difference). What you are saying would apply to DC power, but the alternating is important here.

I just did something similar to what they did, my dust collector was wired in the cabinet 380v, 3ph (3 hot wires). take a line off one of those and you have 220v 1ph, which I then used for the needed coil voltage in a contactor (relay). I have a transformer that probably does the same inside my cabinet, but has shielding in front so I haven't really looked close.

Mactec54 can correct what I is almost certainly wrong in my explanation!

edit: I should add that using that transformer in reverse wont work. Unless you can find a VFD that can take in 220v and output 380v, which may not exist, you will need a transformer at least, then either a 1) phase converter or 2) a larger VFD that can provide the needed power at its "de-rated" power.....lots on here doing that with 220v, I imagine it works for 380v too, although not too much single phase 380v around!

If you haven't called in the electrician, you probably should......