[trickeng]

Bought 2x vf4ss and they are KILLING my business.

1) Both can not rigid tap properly. I have to run test holes to confirm an rpm which doesn't blow out the thread. RPM that doesn't blow out hole is typically around 700rpm which is insanely slow.

2) Both had terrible surface finish issues. "Coining". So it would leave chatter rings when making XY moves. (They first tuned the parameters and fixed the coining, but at the sacrifice of speed. After two month they just came in a updated sofware which seems to have fixed the coining and speed is back.)

3) Xaxis surface finish still is better than Yaxis surface finish. (20x20 Alum plate. 2" shearhog, 10k rpm, 60ipm, .0005depth. And when running the indicator along the y I get .0004 total movement with .0002-.0003 jumps where tool overlap is. Xaxis movement total is .0002 and smooth from left to right.) I can catch my nail on the steps in the Y.
BUT THEY SAY TRAM IS MINT!!!

I bought these machines as a stepping stone to bigger, faster, more efficient machining and they have only sent me further backwards. My 23 and 26yr old matsuura's with 200+k hours face flatter and tap faster than these new machines.

Is this what you get with Haas?? Totally discouraged and loosing huge PO's because they can perform.

[JFettig]

#1 - not sure Haas will rigid tap much faster. I've always kept it around 500rpm for small taps.

#2 - check your max corner rounding, or use G187 P and E, not sure I totally understand the issue or how to fix it.

#3 - your concrete is probably settling, check its level, you will see tram issues when the casting twists due to improper leveling.

[trickeng]

#1 - not sure Haas will rigid tap much faster. I've always kept it around 500rpm for small taps.

#2 - check your max corner rounding, or use G187 P and E, not sure I totally understand the issue or how to fix it.

#3 - your concrete is probably settling, check its level, you will see tram issues when the casting twists due to improper leveling.

#1 That would be insane if they couldn't rigid tap faster than 700rpm. When your running production 500rpm is completely unacceptable. Plus they have have an advertised tapping speed of 2000rpm, so they have to at least do that.

#2 Techs have been here for over 30hours working on parameters and such. But I think they have "coining" issue fixed when making xy movements.

#3 I've been in the same location for 7yrs. Have a Fadal 4020 and a Mat RAIII in the same location. Concrete is fine. Also, they got rid of the coining. Just need to address the .0002-.0003 steps over 2" when facing.

[JFettig]

#1 - lube? same stuff your other machines are using?

#3 wasn't to tell you your concrete sucks, check the level, check it on each end, check it all over, sweep it, etc. I just moved mine(03 VF-4SS) and leveled it again and learned how incorrectly I leveled it the first time. Leveled on 4 pads, dropped the center pads and checked everything and tram was way off, sweeping at 6" radius I was seeing .0015", adjusted the center and outside pads and it dialed in quite nicely.

[trickeng]

#1 - lube? same stuff your other machines are using?

#3 wasn't to tell you your concrete sucks, check the level, check it on each end, check it all over, sweep it, etc. I just moved mine(03 VF-4SS) and leveled it again and learned how incorrectly I leveled it the first time. Leveled on 4 pads, dropped the center pads and checked everything and tram was way off, sweeping at 6" radius I was seeing .0015", adjusted the center and outside pads and it dialed in quite nicely.

#1 Machines are only two months old with barely any hours on them since I can't run 90% of the jobs on them yet because they had aweful surface finish and now still cant rigid tap properly.

#3 Your question about concrete was totally valid. Haas Techs came in and have checked adjusted level 3 times so far and its never been off or changed the outcome. But they were checking because of coining, not because of steps. Ill have to see what they say today about that.

[JFettig]

throw an indicator in your spindle and sweep the table in a 10" circle, you'll see if its off.

[D.D.Machine]

I spent 7 months fighting there POS Next-gen control ,, they came and picked there damm machine up and I just got a new Doosan... I have a 2014 vf4ss and a 2015 vf2ss and they have been OK machines the only real downside to them is they rate there HP like a shop vac and I can EASILY run out of power with a 1/2" mill in alum and there chip system is junk ..... after they came and got the machine I went shopping and the Doosan is WAY more machine for less $$ ...... I`m all for buying american but when the american machine has crappy customer support and there new NEXT-GEN control is buggy as hell I will buy what makes business sense.

[D.D.Machine]

your table can be level but your spindle tram can still be out ,, there is bolts at the bottom of your spindle and if you back them all off 1/2 a turn you can shim your spindle square to your table ,,, if your HFO is anything like mine there is service guys that are good an some that suck at there jobs ... I had one guy come out that could not even do a simple install right.

[mtlhe]

That is right about the techs. Prob is they charge $145.00 REGARDLESS IF HE'S GOOD OR "ON THE JOB TRAINING". Many of the techs Selway California has sent us have never even been to the Haas factory for training. Rip off.. Several shops I know try to fix everything themselves, which sucks but I can pay a $25.00 an hour employee for 6 hours to 1 hour of tech time. Not to mention we have to pay travel to and from the bay area to Northern California, plus their hotel and meals.
Sorry about the rant, just pisses me off. Happy Thanksgiving

[eaglemike]

I often rigid tap on my Haas machines up to about 1600 rpm without issue. IF you can only run 700, something is wrong. My machines are older, though. 1998 through 2012.

[D.D.Machine]

the rigid tapping sounds like a bug in the new control ,,, I had a long list of bugs with that control and I was so happy when selway came and picked there POS up and got it out of my shop ..... I learned Fanuc 35 years ago and well there not the most user friendly control they are rock solid and make good parts and just about never go down ,, but when they do you can get parts for them ....

BUY FANUC

[trickeng]

the rigid tapping sounds like a bug in the new control ,,, I had a long list of bugs with that control and I was so happy when selway came and picked there POS up and got it out of my shop ..... I learned Fanuc 35 years ago and well there not the most user friendly control they are rock solid and make good parts and just about never go down ,, but when they do you can get parts for them ....

BUY FANUC

Well. I just got dk e throwing a Bulova out of my shop and bought these two vf4ss's telling them surface finish and speed were my biggest issues with the bulova. So after spending an entire day at the HFO running a vf4ss they dropped two hunks of crap on my floor.

[Machineit]

#1 - not sure Haas will rigid tap much faster. I've always kept it around 500rpm for small taps.

#2 - check your max corner rounding, or use G187 P and E, not sure I totally understand the issue or how to fix it.

#3 - your concrete is probably settling, check its level, you will see tram issues when the casting twists due to improper leveling.

I tap everything at 1000 rpm.

[The Wolf!]

im sure the tech checked. but you have a setting, that tells the machine how fast to retract. 1,2 3 etc faster retract. on my older haas's we tap around 1500 all day. i know we did some 1/2-13 in alum with no problem on one of the new ones. not sure what the rpm was.

we just got 2x vf2 also. the new controls suck camel d**k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just want to thank the desk jockey that came up with the new sofeware, for making my job take 3x as long. still trying to learn how to probe my parts, its like 15 steps now, but i got it. ok rant over.

o if you get the air blast option. be AWARE that the small allen shaped nozel come out of the housing about 6.00" lol, almost took out a tool setter, lol

[D.D.Machine]

I have a new Doosan dnm5700 in the shop after shipping the POS next -gen machine back and all I can say is I wish I had all Doosan VMC`s in the shop.... The Doosan is twice the machine haas is and is less money.

Haas needs to quit spending all there $$ on advertising and start building better machines that will sell there self ...

[trickeng]

Still no solution to the inability to rigid tap as well as a 20+yr old yasnac i80 or a new stripped down Fanuc 0i.

I feel bad for anyone who buys one of these expecting to do high volume low dollar work. So disappointed in Haas!!!

[The Wolf!]

ours are tapping fine. we are on version 1030 with the probe patch. everything is working, still getting used to all the new stuff. the next gen will NOT do a g13 with I-. so we have to change our programs to I+ to run....

[trickeng]

But what is fine to you??

Can you tap 2-56, 4-40, 6-32, 0-80, 1/4-20, M3, M2.5, M2 ect @ 1500-2000rpm without the NoGo going more than 1turn? I can not with the 2x new vf4ss's. If only one had the problem it would be different. There is a major problem with the new gen software/controls in all the SS machines. They have replicated it at the factory on vf3ss's so anyone who claims to be getting good threads in an SS tapping fast should use a Go-NoGo gage.

If your not running an SS I think the drives and motors are different and that is where the problem lies in my opinion. Not to mention I bought an SS package with highspeed machining to go faster in all situations over a non-SS or 20+ yr old machine. Is that not a reasonable request since that is how they are marketed?

[The Wolf!]

4-40, M3, M4, M6, 1/4-20, All good. i have a vf3 ss, and a vf3 ss yt, no problems on either one so far.... what version software are you on?

[trickeng]

4-40, M3, M4, M6, 1/4-20, All good. i have a vf3 ss, and a vf3 ss yt, no problems on either one so far.... what version software are you on?

Version 1030 is what I'm running and they are "suppose" to be installing new software Monday 1/9/2017. Oh wait?? Yet another date they failed to hit without any contact or update what so ever to let me know when they will be out.

If you have no need to tap fast and can accept up to 2 full turn on your 2B nogo, then I'm sure your doing fine.