[jimsuhr]

I need to retrofit my shizoka knee mill. The old bandit control is shot. the mill is the size of a series 2 bridgeport. I would like to run this from a pc. I am clueless on how to go about this and need info on what componets i can reuse from my old control and what componets i need to buy. The machine and ballscrews are in great shape. I can use this mill manually now but i really want to have my cnc back. Any help greatly appreciated.

[HuFlungDung]

Hi Jim,

Check out the Camsoft banner ad on this site. There are other packages, too. I like the Camsoft interface because it is customisable. However, you should like writing a bit of simple logic and stuff, and doing some wire tracing, etc. It is not a bolt on package.

I doubt there is much you can use from the old Bandit. It likely used resolver based logic for motor positioning and that is out of style now. The modern way is encoder based servo positioning and servo feed back.

There might be some power supplies in the back of the Bandit that you could save and reuse to provide some isolated power to run various circuits without pulling too hard on the PC's power supply.

Anyways, have a look at Camsoft's stuff for starters and get a feel for what is involved. You will want to buy their CNC Professional controller interface software to have full control over all aspects of the interface.

You will need:
3 PWM servo amplifiers (Check Advanced Motion Controls)
3 servo motors with encoders (Glentek, perhaps?)
Galil motion control card for your PC (check Ebay, 17xx or 18xx series Galil)
A computer (500mhz or better)
I/O card for your PC (from Camsoft)
Relay rack for M function stuff (from Camsoft)
Consider the Camsoft handheld pendant for an operator control panel, that plus your keyboard. If you want to make your own operator panel up, that is an alternative, too.

There are other controller packages available, too, but I do not have experience with them to advise you.

You can also check at www.galilmc.com for more info about motion control in general, but they do not specialize in Gcode ready systems.

[Scott_bob]

Jim,

Is this your business or hobby CNC machine?

Another interesting finance option for you to consider is to contact a reputable retrofitter who would be willing to do the work for you. Then for the finances, they set up a lease of the value of the retrofitted machine (current value plus the retrofit cost) with a 1 dollar buy out at the end of the lease.

This is an extremely beneficial tax arrangement especially for the cash strapped small business. Plus you get a retrofitted CNC on monthly installments, along with the tax credits...

One very highly recommended source for you would be DOC machine Tool Services; they are out on the east coast where you are...

http://www.docmachine.com

We are using their new Rubicon control (Numeryx)
http://www.numeryx.com/cnc/index.htm

Rubicon: "A small stream between Gaul and ancient Italy. Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon in defiance of the senate. He thus committed himself to conquer or to perish. To cross the Rubicon now means to take the irrevocable step to leave your paradigm and enter a new dimension of PRODUCTIVITY!

[jimsuhr]

This is more a hobby than a business. I have a small machine shop in my garage. I have looked into centroid, camsoft and a bunch of others. my friend bought a camsoft package for his lathe and was not able to get it running. so he ended up selling the package on ebay and taking a soaking. so i am kind of gun shy
about some of the package deals and would like to buy the componets.

[HuFlungDung]

Jim,

Too bad your friend didn't know about these forums

The components are almost secondary in importance. The software that creates the interface is where it all has to work. That is where you should start your research.

Nothing that Camsoft uses (as an example) is really proprietory, except their software. Admittedly, there is some close association between what hardware their software can work with, but they have offered to look at integrating drivers for other types of hardware than what I listed.

There are other package deals out there that include motors, I/O cards and relays, software and PC. It may be that this would suit you better. At least you could presume that the package deal supposedly worked somewhere else before you got it.

[turmite]

Jim another option is Mach2! Support is unparalleled! Are your drive motors still good. If so, about all you would need would be the Mach2 software and a Bob Campbell breakout board to make wiring a little more simple.

I just retrofitted my cnc router and really like the Mach2 system.

Oh yes, Mach2 cost $150 US, the breakout board is $125- $135. I am not sure on it.

www.artofcnc.ca

Mike
ps If you decide to take a soaking let me know!~!

[HillBilly]

I am glad to here that I am not the only one who is CamSoft retarded.

It seems like any step and direction software combined with a Rutex +/-10V output board with encoder input would substitute for this type of system.

HillBilly

[HuFlungDung]

Hillbilly,

I am surprised at your comments! Did you even get started on your retrofit?

There is no way that some $200 software solution is going to provide any kind of a cnc controller for fast, productive and accurate work!

The Camsoft controller installation is for the adventurous person, nobody claimed that anyone could install it. If your machine is not a standard configuration, or you have special ideas of your own that you would like to implement, Camsoft is the easiest solution that I know of. That does not mean the retrofitting is easy!. The easiest solution out of several difficult solutions, is still difficult

I've browsed through the Centroid site a bit, and I think that this might be a more cut and dried installation for the guy who just wants to get it done and is willing to put up with what someone else has designed for a cnc interface. It appears to be quite complete. I don't recall ever hearing any feedback from anyone about them. The only question I would have would be the conversational interface, and whether that would cause any problems running normal gcode nc programs.

Jim, if you want, you can also upgrade the Bandit with a Shadow controller. This uses the same format of programming language as the Bandit, so you can use your old programs with very little modification. Control Solutions in Bozeman, MT is the source for info on this. They can supply a package retrofit. But, it is not a PC based cnc.

[HillBilly]

Hu,

You may start a CamSoft retrofit but it will never trully be finished in my opinion!(Not only do you have to enter the parameters you also have to write a great deal of what would be considered the executive program on other CNC controllers.)

CamSoft is offering the same kind of system I am referring to in my previous post, if you want to use their software.(Cost alot more but is user definable.)

I am impressed at what these systems (step/dir servo drives) can do for the price.

HillBilly

[HuFlungDung]

Hillbilly,

What you say it quite true: it may never be finished, but this is because of one's own new ideas creating "feature creep"

I also have factory controllers that have features lacking or broken, but my hands are totally tied so far as implementing the changes that I want to see. I don't like that, either.

[turmite]

Hey Hu, you may need to rethink this statement.

"There is no way that some $200 software solution is going to provide any kind of a cnc controller for fast, productive and accurate work!"

Are you saying that a $200 software solution is not accurate enough, fast enough, productive enough or expensive enough?

I would think that a man of your talents and knowledge would at least check out something that orginates in you own country!

Mach2 is a software solution that was written and supported by a gentleman from Canada. This software is about to be linked to the Gecko 2003/2003 pulse generator that will do the following:

"Finally, the G2002 was made to take over 1 billion steps on pseudo-
random generated CW and CCW distances that summed to zero. The motor
returned exactly to its original starting point after the 40+ hours
it took for this test."

The Gecko has over 300 i/o's, full 6 axis and can drive steppers or servos. The 2002 does not have encoder feedback but the 2003 does. Can you imagine the resolution you can get from 1,000,000,000 pps?

You might want to check these new software solutions out!
They will be the new future in cnc.

Mike

[HuFlungDung]

Turmite, I am a reasonable fellow. I have been deceived, I guess, because some manufacturers claim to need $25000 for a pc based cnc solution, and some need only $200. So I chose middle of the road because I assumed it was likely a sufficiently capable solution for my needs.

If MACH2 meets your expectations, congrats, you saved a ton of money I don't see enough information on that site to convince me one way or the other. Best of luck to him, though.

BTW, Jim, if you are reading, there is a good deal going on Ebay right now for a 4 axis Galil card, interconnect module, cable, Camsoft cnc lite, and Camsoft operator pendant, and Bobcad18. All in one package.

[turmite]

Hu I think you are one of the most reasonable people I have never met. I would also like to add that I think you have always been one to post your ideas to help anyone who might need help. I have utmost respect for you and that is one of the reasons I have a hard time understanding why you would have the opinion you do about the $200 controllers.

BTW you never did tell me what you though it would cost to build one of the spindles for a 30 taper tool holder?

Mike

[HuFlungDung]

Turmite,

Send me your blueprint and I'll quote Making a firm plan (preferably to scale on a computer, to check that everything really does fit!) is at least half the work.

[Thermwood]

A bit of support for camsoft .....

I've no doubts that some $ 300.00 packages can get it done and since my first and only retrofit was a camsoft I can't compare.
However, I can say that camsoft delivered pretty much everythin g they promised. During a six months retrofit I got frustrated with them more than once but in all honesty, that was mainly due to my own ignorance in the domain, and sometimes refusal to accept that camsoft sells a customizable kit... not a turn key solution. I ended up hiring one of their techs for a day on site and about a day worth of phone support.
while installing their hand held controller, I experienced slow response while using the hand held. After 2 or 3 days of trying different solutions, and back and forth with Camsoft, I ended up having to stand my ground and maintain that there had to be a problem with the software .... there was ... they fixed it
(Had to do with the ethernet connection with the Galil card).
They were a bit hard to convince but really why should they have taken the word of a debutant against their application ....
Over all, our camsoft retrofit is a success, and my only wish would be that their cam package had been better .....

As far as the retrofit never been finished there is a simple answer to that ;


You keep on tweaking it because you can ......

[turmite]

Hey guys let me say that i think Camsoft is a fine rpoduct and company. I spoke with the owner several times when I started to think about my retrofit. He was very helpful and quite knowledgable.

My problem was the cash outlay I was going to have to come up with to do the retrofit using Camsoft products. Their stepper system would only do 3 axis at the time and I needed a min. of 4 so I was going to have to change to servos and the cost of the controller, servos, amps, etc. was in the $10-12,000. That was quite a step when my machine was not worth putting that kind of money in. About the same time I found the Mach2 website and downloaded the free version. After tinkering with it a few days I made my decision to stay with steppers and use the Mach2 with Gecko drivers. Total cost was less that $800.

I can control my spindle on/off, speed and direction. Well I could if my spindle would do that! I can turn on a coolant pump or in my case a vacuum system, activate clamps etc. If I could afford or find a 12 ft. and a nine ft. linear glass scale I could have a cloosed loop feedback system which for me would be good. I can design my own screens the way I want them. The system has a diagnostics screen as well as a Rutex tuning mode to tune servos using Rutex drivers. When finally linked with the Gecko G2003 it will have all this as well as being a plc.

Personally I think the day of the high priced controllers are about over.

Mike

[HillBilly]

You keep on tweaking it because you have to!

You should not have to tweak anything that is working correctly!

HillBilly

[Thermwood]

Actually no, I keep on tweaking it because I keep on coming with new stuff I'd like to add, or different procedures .....
Making it run is one thing, making it run so its fool proof and any of my employees can set up and run a cycle is another ....

I see it more like more like setting your carb for different altitudes.....

And again maybe I just can't help it .... After all I'm still tweaking my 1971 Bultaco .....

[HillBilly]

If I had a 1971 Cutlass and I went to Florida I
Would not expect to have to adjust the carburater when I got there!

HillBilly

[Thermwood]

no but if you took a 2 stroke from florida to colorado you'd better .....