[arcadiax]

Hi everyone,

I have an question and need help in setting up my CNC so it can communicate with my CAM software.

I currently have 2 CAM softwares installed and would like to try them both out in the following order.

1. Autodesk Fusion 360
2. Aspire 8.5

I am still very new to everything in CNC and would be tramming and getting my spoil board ready after calibration and basic learning of CAM software.

I currently own a ZENCNC 12" x 12" machine that I purchased as a kit and have put it together finally after 6 months of on and off workload.

The ZENCNC came with an Universal Gcode Sender Software that I was able to use for simple movement tests but that's about as far as I have gone with their instructions. I also have limit and home switches installed via ZENCNC instructions but I do not know how to activate these.

This ZENCNC uses an Arduino board with USB connect.

I have tried looking around but I do not think I found any threads that actually walk people through on how to set up a CNC to communicate with full suite CAM softwares and within the 2 softwares I have installed, I could not see it in there either (Help files) - or maybe it is labelled and termed differently.

I hope someone here can spend a minute and maybe walk me through on some of the basics in CAM set up so I can at least somewhat get the ball rolling on my own as well. sort of just staring at a blank wall now not knowing where to go next.

I have some experience in Repetier and 3D printing but I still feel CNc is a bit different and more of a steeper learning curve.

Thank you for taking the time to visit and read my thread. I look forward to all replies and helpful tips.

- Steven

[awerby]

The CAM software will import your 3D models or 2D drawings, let you tell it what tool to use in cutting them out, how fast you want to go, how close together toolpaths will be, etc, and then export a text file written in a language called "G-code". I'm not familiar with the "Universal Gcode Sender", but it sounds like it should import that file and send it to your machine. I'd try a simple shape like a square as a test; see if you can get your CAM software to generate a toolpath and export it as G-code, then send it to the "Sender" and see what happens. Try a dry run first; set the zero points in the middle of the table somewhere with the Z zero well above the workpiece (the X and Y zeros should correspond to their location on your drawing). When you press the button to make it start, it should send the tool down a little, then around the square (or whatever you've drawn). If that all works, you can start thinking about installing the home and limit switches, but they aren't necessary for basic operations.

Zen Toolworks (ZenCNC) is still in business, and they're located in the USA. so they should be able to help you get going with their machine. Of course, they say it should have only taken 2 or 3 hours to put the machine together, so maybe they go too fast for regular people to understand...

[arcadiax]

The CAM software will import your 3D models or 2D drawings, let you tell it what tool to use in cutting them out, how fast you want to go, how close together toolpaths will be, etc, and then export a text file written in a language called "G-code". I'm not familiar with the "Universal Gcode Sender", but it sounds like it should import that file and send it to your machine. I'd try a simple shape like a square as a test; see if you can get your CAM software to generate a toolpath and export it as G-code, then send it to the "Sender" and see what happens. Try a dry run first; set the zero points in the middle of the table somewhere with the Z zero well above the workpiece (the X and Y zeros should correspond to their location on your drawing). When you press the button to make it start, it should send the tool down a little, then around the square (or whatever you've drawn). If that all works, you can start thinking about installing the home and limit switches, but they aren't necessary for basic operations.

Zen Toolworks (ZenCNC) is still in business, and they're located in the USA. so they should be able to help you get going with their machine. Of course, they say it should have only taken 2 or 3 hours to put the machine together, so maybe they go too fast for regular people to understand...

Hi Awerby, thanks so much for checking out my thread.

Most of what you said do make plenty of sense and I have more or less came across such topics which I will be diving more in-depth with later on.

I guess I am actually stuck on a very "Simple" thing that looks confusing to me.

For this question, and I understand each CNC and CAM work somewhat differently, but the general question I want to ask you is, let's say I open up my CAM, usually CAM's should have an area that we will be able to tweak in setting up and detecting our CNC right? I'm approaching this problem in a very lay-man'ish way...like I am just expecting to see maybe a panel in the CAM that says "CNC Setup" or "CNC connect" and than maybe some manual arrows that I can use my hand to jot the X, Y, Z to test my CNC movements before importing any actual files and working on them. I could be totally wrong here but I am just missing that little bridge between actual CAM and CNC connection.

Awerby, I do have a question though about home switches and limit switches. In a general summary explanation, how do we set these up? Do CAMS usually have the ability to automatically help us set this up or do we have to jot the coordinates and manually set the perimeter?

And yes, ZENCNC is still around but it is very hard to get in touch with them as their support is somewhat absent most of the time and their forum is dead although they are extremely helpful when you can get in touch with them - that's usually every once in a couple weeks.

Thanks for your time Awerby and I appreciate your help greatly.

- Steven

[Superman]

For this question, and I understand each CNC and CAM work somewhat differently, but the general question I want to ask you is, let's say I open up my CAM, usually CAM's should have an area that we will be able to tweak in setting up and detecting our CNC right? I'm approaching this problem in a very lay-man'ish way...like I am just expecting to see maybe a panel in the CAM that says "CNC Setup" or "CNC connect" and than maybe some manual arrows that I can use my hand to jot the X, Y, Z to test my CNC movements before importing any actual files and working on them. I could be totally wrong here but I am just missing that little bridge between actual CAM and CNC connection.

I think you need a little bit of re-direction, so I'll break it into sections
Part 1
CAD..... software used to create drawings, models, assemblies etc
CAM.... software used to nominate tools, place toolpaths around items that were previously created in a CAD system ..... ( you may possess a system that is combined ie CADCAM ....you can draw & create toolpaths with the same software )
Post processor.... a converter to turn the graphic toolpaths into specific CNC code to suit YOUR machine's controller .. ( this sometimes requires customising to your personal preferences )
Part 2
Transfer Software..... ability to send that CNC file between the PC and the machine's controller ( this would be your "Universal Gcode Sender Software" & cables)

& finally
Part 3
your CNC control


You do need to be able to create toolpaths on both the CADCAM & CNC systems with a little confidence, to know that the NC code you create will work
- you then customise the post processor to output the NC code, into the same structure that would be run in the control WITHOUT any errors
( ie create a CAM program to drill a hole, output the code, put that code into the controller & run it....any modification to that code means you need to adjust the post processor )

Your transfer software seems it may work without issue, as it connects via USB ( so it may be similar to transferring using a windows type of environment )..... you may need a long USB cable.... or a WIFI setup
( this can be bypassed at this stage by using a USB stick )


There are owners that use a PC to drive their CNC, and they have installed there CADCAM system on the PC....this eliminates the transfer part....
..... but I'll raise the issue that having a decent PC with a CADCAM system in a shop environment is asking for trouble......If it stops working , everything stops, I do hope you would keep backups & drive images elsewhere )

[ger21]

et's say I open up my CAM, usually CAM's should have an area that we will be able to tweak in setting up and detecting our CNC right? I'm approaching this problem in a very lay-man'ish way...like I am just expecting to see maybe a panel in the CAM that says "CNC Setup" or "CNC connect" and than maybe some manual arrows that I can use my hand to jot the X, Y, Z to test my CNC movements before importing any actual files and working on them.

No, the CAM does not control your machine. CAM creates g-code, which your machine controller reads.
Most of us here use control software like Mach3 or LinuxCNC to run our machines. These are the programs that actually control the machine, and read the g-code that the CAM software outputs.

It looks like Universal G-Code Sender uses GRBL? If so, then GRBL would be your machine control, that would let you setup and jog your machine.

I do have a question though about home switches and limit switches. In a general summary explanation, how do we set these up? Do CAMS usually have the ability to automatically help us set this up or do we have to jot the coordinates and manually set the perimeter?

These should be configured in GRBL.

[awerby]

let's say I open up my CAM, usually CAM's should have an area that we will be able to tweak in setting up and detecting our CNC right?

[That would more likely be in the CNC control software you're using. ]

I'm approaching this problem in a very lay-man'ish way...like I am just expecting to see maybe a panel in the CAM that says "CNC Setup" or "CNC connect" and than maybe some manual arrows that I can use my hand to jot the X, Y, Z to test my CNC movements before importing any actual files and working on them. I could be totally wrong here but I am just missing that little bridge between actual CAM and CNC connection.

[CAM software, as was mentioned above, doesn't operate the CNC machine; its entire function is to analyze your models and write that G-code file that tells the CNC control software what to do. Every CNC control program I've ever used has a way to jog the machine around by hand. Most of them also have a Manual Data Input (MDI) function that lets you give it individual directional commands, that move it to a spot you designate.]

Awerby, I do have a question though about home switches and limit switches. In a general summary explanation, how do we set these up? Do CAMS usually have the ability to automatically help us set this up or do we have to jot the coordinates and manually set the perimeter?

[Most machines will come with a setup file of some sort, that includes all the machine-specific information the software needs to use to communicate with it. But I'm not sure about yours. If it's not provided, you'll have to find out the information and enter it by hand.]

And yes, ZENCNC is still around but it is very hard to get in touch with them as their support is somewhat absent most of the time and their forum is dead although they are extremely helpful when you can get in touch with them - that's usually every once in a couple weeks.

Thanks for your time Awerby and I appreciate your help greatly.

- Steven

[It sounds like you'll need to keep trying to get in touch with those elusive vendors, but at least now you've got more specific questions for them.]

[arcadiax]

No, the CAM does not control your machine. CAM creates g-code, which your machine controller reads.
Most of us here use control software like Mach3 or LinuxCNC to run our machines. These are the programs that actually control the machine, and read the g-code that the CAM software outputs.

It looks like Universal G-Code Sender uses GRBL? If so, then GRBL would be your machine control, that would let you setup and jog your machine.



These should be configured in GRBL.

Yes, Ger21, it sort of all makes sense now to me. Superman at the bottom explained it perfectly lol...

Thank you for taking the time to check out this thread.

- Steven

[arcadiax]

[It sounds like you'll need to keep trying to get in touch with those elusive vendors, but at least now you've got more specific questions for them.]

Hi again Awerby,

Yes, it's been kind of hard to reach these guys. They are nice though when trying to help but I guess it is a small company.

It is just a little frustrating when you have companies advertising their products to total beginners and yet have nearly no support on hand.

Buyer diligence I suppose but I also know CNC and DIY stuff isn't a smooth road.

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond and read this thread.

- Steven

[arcadiax]

I think you need a little bit of re-direction, so I'll break it into sections
Part 1
CAD..... software used to create drawings, models, assemblies etc
CAM.... software used to nominate tools, place toolpaths around items that were previously created in a CAD system ..... ( you may possess a system that is combined ie CADCAM ....you can draw & create toolpaths with the same software )
Post processor.... a converter to turn the graphic toolpaths into specific CNC code to suit YOUR machine's controller .. ( this sometimes requires customising to your personal preferences )
Part 2
Transfer Software..... ability to send that CNC file between the PC and the machine's controller ( this would be your "Universal Gcode Sender Software" & cables)

& finally
Part 3
your CNC control


You do need to be able to create toolpaths on both the CADCAM & CNC systems with a little confidence, to know that the NC code you create will work
- you then customise the post processor to output the NC code, into the same structure that would be run in the control WITHOUT any errors
( ie create a CAM program to drill a hole, output the code, put that code into the controller & run it....any modification to that code means you need to adjust the post processor )

Your transfer software seems it may work without issue, as it connects via USB ( so it may be similar to transferring using a windows type of environment )..... you may need a long USB cable.... or a WIFI setup
( this can be bypassed at this stage by using a USB stick )


There are owners that use a PC to drive their CNC, and they have installed there CADCAM system on the PC....this eliminates the transfer part....
..... but I'll raise the issue that having a decent PC with a CADCAM system in a shop environment is asking for trouble......If it stops working , everything stops, I do hope you would keep backups & drive images elsewhere )

Hi Superman,

Thank you for spending the time to write up such a clear explanation. It was exactly what I was missing. I guess I have them all ready to go and experiment with.

CAD - Autodesk 3D Studio Max - Check

CAM - Autodesk Fusion 360 - Check

Transfer Software - GRBL (Universal Gcode Sender Software - Check

CNC Control- Question: For this area, do you mean an actual physical control panel? The only thing I have is an emergency stop button and a spindle speed knob. I haven't wired up the emergency stop button yet and I plan to control the spindle speed with the speed knob.

I will be carving into semi-dry plaster (To minimise dust particles as I do not have a vacuum installed yet) for making ceramic molds. I think I will be taking all the jobs on a slower speed at the beginning to feel things out. I do not mind buying bits as I think for my application, I can spare a bit of money on the bits part as long as my milling success rate is higher via slower milling speed.

Superman, one question - are NC codes Gcodes or something else?

As for the PC part, I do have a PC and everything is hooked up to that PC in my studio - CNC, CAD / CAM all installed on that PC along with transfer software. That PC is specifically dedicated to the CNC machine alone.

You mentioned using a PC to drive the cutting so we can skip the transfer part, do you mean using the CAD / CAM to directly control the CNC and ignore the GRBL (Universal Gcode Sender Software) or...? I do not mind trying this out, could you expand more on this area or is there any articles I can read in regards to this?

Thanks Superman!

- Steven

[Superman]

CNC Control- Question: For this area, do you mean an actual physical control panel? The only thing I have is an emergency stop button and a spindle speed knob. I haven't wired up the emergency stop button yet and I plan to control the spindle speed with the speed knob
- a control is not necessarily a box ( or pendant ) attached to a machine, but something that directs the machine items to do a function when requested...... ie spindle ON or OFF, the axis motors ( when & which way to turn, when to stop), rapid or feed motion, or an arc... etc, etc

are NC codes Gcodes or something else? "NC codes" is a better term than "Gcodes" ....... a machine uses more than just the G address ie S,F,M T etc

As for the PC part, I do have a PC and everything is hooked up to that PC in my studio - CNC, CAD / CAM all installed on that PC along with transfer software. That PC is specifically dedicated to the CNC machine alone.
- not sure of your setup, but I was more meaning that the expensive PC & peripherals ( runs the CADCAM etc ) is not in the grotty work area , plus you could do other duties with that PC.....while the machine has it's own basic PC that may use all it's computing power to run the machine
- if you have a design that may be resource hungry or something freezes up the PC when creating toolpaths .... it would not affect the running of the machine, which is being fed by a separate PC

You mentioned using a PC to drive the cutting so we can skip the transfer part, do you mean using the CAD / CAM to directly control the CNC and ignore the GRBL (Universal Gcode Sender Software) or...? I do not mind trying this out, could you expand more on this area or is there any articles I can read in regards to this?
I was pointing out that some users have a setup as per the previous question.....one PC to do everything, they usually place it close to their machine.... but that is your choice. I'm just pointing out that electronic gear near machines can go psffst at the most undesirable time....crap gets sucked into the inner workings, dust into keyboard, dead mice, etc
- a CADCAM system doesn't control the machine, it creates an output that is then used to control the machine
ie you create graphical toolpaths ( on-screen only).... you choose the correct order it should be run, pass it through a post processor to get NC code.....that NC code is then used to control the machine
( there are variations of this theme, eg. some controls may use a DXF file to define the cutter path, instead of Gcode )

[arcadiax]

CNC Control- Question: For this area, do you mean an actual physical control panel? The only thing I have is an emergency stop button and a spindle speed knob. I haven't wired up the emergency stop button yet and I plan to control the spindle speed with the speed knob
- a control is not necessarily a box ( or pendant ) attached to a machine, but something that directs the machine items to do a function when requested...... ie spindle ON or OFF, the axis motors ( when & which way to turn, when to stop), rapid or feed motion, or an arc... etc, etc

are NC codes Gcodes or something else? "NC codes" is a better term than "Gcodes" ....... a machine uses more than just the G address ie S,F,M T etc

As for the PC part, I do have a PC and everything is hooked up to that PC in my studio - CNC, CAD / CAM all installed on that PC along with transfer software. That PC is specifically dedicated to the CNC machine alone.
- not sure of your setup, but I was more meaning that the expensive PC & peripherals ( runs the CADCAM etc ) is not in the grotty work area , plus you could do other duties with that PC.....while the machine has it's own basic PC that may use all it's computing power to run the machine
- if you have a design that may be resource hungry or something freezes up the PC when creating toolpaths .... it would not affect the running of the machine, which is being fed by a separate PC

You mentioned using a PC to drive the cutting so we can skip the transfer part, do you mean using the CAD / CAM to directly control the CNC and ignore the GRBL (Universal Gcode Sender Software) or...? I do not mind trying this out, could you expand more on this area or is there any articles I can read in regards to this?
I was pointing out that some users have a setup as per the previous question.....one PC to do everything, they usually place it close to their machine.... but that is your choice. I'm just pointing out that electronic gear near machines can go psffst at the most undesirable time....crap gets sucked into the inner workings, dust into keyboard, dead mice, etc
- a CADCAM system doesn't control the machine, it creates an output that is then used to control the machine
ie you create graphical toolpaths ( on-screen only).... you choose the correct order it should be run, pass it through a post processor to get NC code.....that NC code is then used to control the machine
( there are variations of this theme, eg. some controls may use a DXF file to define the cutter path, instead of Gcode )

Hi Superman,

Controls: Ok I think I am good in this area...? The entire kit came with everything I needed I think - breakout board, Arduino UNO Board, PSU, Spindle Control Knob, Emergency button, limit switches, power cable, usb cable.

PC: The PC I have connected to this CNC machine is dedicated to it alone. I think it is pretty barebones at the moment - Quadcore intel, 4 gb, x64 win 7. Do you think this is enough? Most likely if I am going to be having a job run, I will be looking at it - at least until I get the hang of things. I don't want my machine to be a wreak when I return a couple hours later lol...

Most importantly doing test runs is critical for me at least for the next 2 months. Do you have any ideas of good things to carve as test runs? Someone indicated to me geometric shapes - like a cube. It helps measure accuracy supposedly.

But I do understand your concern I guess because sometimes when the little hiccups occur in windows or something updating or a "Rat" runs into the computer or the bits of milled things fall into the PC, all these potential hazards, it's than best to just pre-process the codes, feed it to the Transfer Software and let it run right? Like instead of having things processed real-time, just upload it in advance?

Post-processor: I think I missed this part in my last post. Is the Universal Gcode Sender Software a post processor or would I need to find another separate software that is a post processor?

Sorry for asking so many questions Superman! I am really a newbie here.

- Steven

[ger21]

The post processor is a part of Fusion 360. When you output the g-code, you choose a post processor for your specific control (GRBL). The post processor "formats" the g-code to work with your control.

I believe that Universal G-Code Sender could be considered to be like a "front end" for GRBL.

[Superman]

PC: The PC I have connected to this CNC machine is dedicated to it alone. I think it is pretty barebones at the moment - Quadcore intel, 4 gb, x64 win 7. Do you think this is enough? Most likely if I am going to be having a job run, I will be looking at it - at least until I get the hang of things. I don't want my machine to be a wreak when I return a couple hours later lol...
- I'm not experienced in the hobby machine type of setups, I use larger dedicated heavy metal remover machines ie a $300K price range & higher


But I do understand your concern I guess because sometimes when the little hiccups occur in windows or something updating or a "Rat" runs into the computer or the bits of milled things fall into the PC, all these potential hazards, it's than best to just pre-process the codes, feed it to the Transfer Software and let it run right? Like instead of having things processed real-time, just upload it in advance?
- spot on, while the PC that is near the machine ( or controls the machine) is running, your CADCAM PC ( that's in the temperature controlled, clean & comfortable room next door, next to the coffee machine ) could be designing your next part. When experience comes your way, the "programming PC" is where you will spend most of your time, you might as well do it in comfort.

Post-processor: I think I missed this part in my last post. Is the Universal Gcode Sender Software a post processor or would I need to find another separate software that is a post processor?
-the Gcode Sender software is a transfer method of placing the output file in the machine control......The Fusion 360 is the CAM system that you would be using to create the paths, it would need a method of converting those paths into a language that would "drive" the machine


Sorry for asking so many questions Superman! I am really a newbie here.
- Don't be sorry...... it's part of learning.... everyone was a noob at some point of their journey.

[awerby]

If the idea is to produce molds for ceramic casting, I'd suggest carving the positive forms in machinable wax, which doesn't produce dust, and making plaster molds in the normal way from that wax master. That way, making the parting lines will be simplified, and you'll be able to cast more plaster parts from the wax when the molds wear out, as they do rather often if you're slip-casting.

[arcadiax]

If the idea is to produce molds for ceramic casting, I'd suggest carving the positive forms in machinable wax, which doesn't produce dust, and making plaster molds in the normal way from that wax master. That way, making the parting lines will be simplified, and you'll be able to cast more plaster parts from the wax when the molds wear out, as they do rather often if you're slip-casting.

Hi Awerby,

That is a great suggestion. I've thought about also doing that but the reason I want to directly mill the molds is because some things might be a bit complex and doing it by hand may not get the most accurate results.

For simpler molds, I think I will do what you suggested but for multi-parted molds involving maybe 4 or more parts, I will probably splice the 3D model first in a CAM software and than go about it that way.

You mentioned parting lines, do you mean the area where 2 molds meet? My tolerance for ceramics is quite high as anything within 1-2 mm is acceptable at the parting lines. I understand people who make machine parts require absolute accuracy.

- Steven

[arcadiax]

The post processor is a part of Fusion 360. When you output the g-code, you choose a post processor for your specific control (GRBL). The post processor "formats" the g-code to work with your control.

I believe that Universal G-Code Sender could be considered to be like a "front end" for GRBL.

Hi Ger21,

It's been awhile and I am finally back with some time on my hands to further my journey in CNC.

Regarding this post, I just wanted to repeat it more time and if you can confirm whether I have it right or not, it would be great.

Fusion 360 - Production / 3D model modification software (We can also use 3D Studio Max, export acceptable 3D file format to Fusion 360 right?)

Post Processor - Built into Fusion 360. This part turns the 3D file inside Fusion 360 into bits of Gcode - Machine readable codes and in this instance, the CNC machine.

GRBL - This is the part I was a little confused about. Is the GRBL a post processor that I need to send the processed Gcodes to from the post processor inside Fusion 360 or is GRBL something completely different or are these 2 different things?

Thanks Ger21!

[ger21]

GRBL is the machine control software, which is actually controlling your machine.