[atomarc]

Kenny,

I like the idea of a USB powered hub but I'll show my computer ignorance and ask..if the device gets it power from the hub, how does it communicate with the computer. This would be for the monitor and the MPG. The monitor was selected as it's very compact and was spec'd to run off a USB cable.

Stuart

[Kenny Duval]

A powered hub is simply additional USB ports that are supplied power via a separate power supply. It will connect back to the machine via USB for data. It is simply moving where the monitor receives its power.

[atomarc]

Kenny,

Thanks..I'll pick one up and give it a try.

Stuart

[CL_MotoTech]

My MPG didn't effect boot, but adding a powered hub absolutely made the MPG more reliable. It's worth a shot for numerous reasons. I think a lot of motherboards undersupply USB amperage. If I recall correctly, Stuart, you are using a Vista pendant. I am as well. Two thumbs up after adding the powdered USB hub.

[Kenny Duval]

He still should put it on a pallet and ship it to me so I can troubleshoot it. I figure I can have it sorted out in 2 or 3 years. Four tops.

[atomarc]

Yes..I'm using a Vista pendant and I've ordered a powered USB hub from Amazon, so we'll see what happens, thanks.

Stuart

[rushitechnology]

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[CL_MotoTech]

Yes..I'm using a Vista pendant and I've ordered a powered USB hub from Amazon, so we'll see what happens, thanks.

Stuart

It will fix your issue, I am confident.

I would have to reconnect the pendant via the software after every reboot and connecting was spotty and troublesome. That isn't an issue anymore. Now the only issue I experience is getting the pendent to work when I switch back and forth between Mach and UCCNC haha.

[atomarc]

While this is a bit off topic of the subject I inquired about recently I think it's interesting and may help other members with the same problem or question.

The Grizz was originally outfitted with a Leadshine MX3660 stepper driver coupled with a 48v power supply. The fine print on the original install recommended a shunt regulator to protect the drive during a E-stop while the steppers were ripping along...we didn't install one and several months ago during one of those scenarios we blew the drive.

I researched shunt regulators and found the appropriate item and where to purchase it. I called Leadshine USA to order a drive before I bought the regulator..good thing I did as the 'new-improved' MX3660 has be re-engineered to alleviate the problem of over current destruction..according to Leadshine.

So..we'll install the new drive, and following their recommendation, use no shunt regulator and we'll see if the magic smoke is under control.

Stuart

[arizonavideo]

This is always a problem with all motor or drives for any inductive load.

If you want to run lets say a 80V system at around 10A then you have a few choices to make for outputs. You can run a 110V driver that has a vary low DCR and power loss or run a 180V that has a higher DCR but also has a much higher reverse voltage protection.

So if you go with the180V driver you will need to use much more heatsinking and end up with a larger drive. You can also add a reverse voltage blocking diode set but then again your adding more parts and cost.

So every time the engineer tells you that the part will be fine because the back EMF pulse will be withing limits, that true but it will degrade the gates and after a few hits they just give up and fail.

[CL_MotoTech]

If I understand this correctly this only applies to turning power off entirely to the drives themselves? I.e. in a manner that would be considered a true emergency stop? This doesn't apply to activating the e-stop via the MX3660 e-stop circuit?

[arizonavideo]

Each motor has a a number of winding.

Each winding is a inductor that stores electric charge. If things go right that power is discharged into the magnet field and turned into work. During a E stop the motor will have the input power stopped but the load my vary well try to keep moving causing the motor to turn and generate electricity. This power is sent to the driver and the instantaneous voltage can be quite high, sometimes causing the drive to fail. A transistor without being turned on will allow a greater voltage at the output leads. Normally back fed power is sent to the power supply and "killed" but if the drive is off then the transistor is open and the voltage un damped.

Generally most drives can take it. The only thing I have seen been a problem is full speed full power crashes and for me it was the Z falling down after the power was cut. The dropping Z was slowly killing my Gecko drive. Over the years I replaced 2 or 3 dives from that. Now I dont let the head drop, I used to let it drop down and I would put a block to stop it. Now I block it before I cut the power.

[atomarc]

Regarding the MX3660 driver failure on the Grizz. I received the new drive from Leadshine and again confirmed with them that this 'new improved' drive is redesigned and will take the hit of any back EMF without the need of a shunt regulator. As an aside, the episode that blew the drive also blew a 5 amp fuse in the 48v power supply. As near as I can tell there is no literature that comes with the power supply that indicates it has an internal fuse that can blow and need replacing. We'll replace the fuse, fire up the machine and see if all is good.

Stuart

[atomarc]

More boring info..but maybe helpful to some. Installed the new & improved MX3660 stepper drive and replaced the 5a, slo-blo fuse in the Keline 48v-600w power supply hoping for success, but it wasn't to be had. The power supply seems to have a dead short in it and will blow fuses instantly (on the bench), so I ordered a new Meanwell power supply of the same specs today.

I'm not one for coincidences, so the drive exploding and the power supply exploding at the same time has me worried. After the drive failed to boot up we pulled the supply power and checked it, it was a perfect 48 volts. Being ham handed green peas, we jumped the two small fuses (blown) mounted on the PC board of the stepper driver with alligator clips and tried to get it to power up. There as a wisp of magical smoke from the board on application of power which must have killed the power supply too as it no longer functioned.

Maybe it's time to quit playing Mr. Technician and stick to the hammers and pliers.

Stuart

[atomarc]

Today...I installed the new Mean Well power supply and hooked it to the new-improved MX3660 stepper driver that was installed last week. The Grizz moved around, homed and did everything perfectly, except the spindle won't start. The ESS smooth stepper takes the command to start the spindle from MACH-4 and sends it to the MX3660 where it's fed to the Hitachi drive as a 0-10v signal to control the VFD. That doesn't seem to be happening. MACH shows the commanded speed but the drive doesn't respond. When I program the VFD for manual control it works fine so the drive itself is OK.

More digging and scratching is in order I'm afraid.

Stuart

[CL_MotoTech]

Bummer, Stuart. I can say that chasing relays and messing the PWM was probably the least favorite part of setting up my machine. Not a particularly difficult process, but one that I just did not enjoy.

[atomarc]

I hope I'm not doing a disservice by posting these things in this forum as opposed to the more electronic/drive/Mach forums, but we have lots of time invested in this machine and it seems more appropriate to post it here.

So, having said that, part of the riddle is solved but part still remains a mystery. The Hitachi drive is fine..it would not control the spindle when commanded through the software because it was being told to run FWD and REV at the same time which resulted in a 'no run' situation.

The digital output on the MX3660 is outputting two relays at the same time which give the drive the incorrect command. The MACH software which is driving the ESS which in turn is signalling the MX3660 shows the proper signals and pin locations are being triggered, but the MX3660 is still firing both outputs at one time.

I have a email in to Leadshine to see if they can shed some light on the situation. My next troubleshooting step will be to see if the ESS is in fact sending a FWD/REV signal to the MX3660 when it shouldn't. This will prove it isn't the MX3660 that's at fault.

All this monkey motion started with a E-stop during a fast Z move that destroyed the power supply and the MX3660 stepper driver.

Stuart

[dazp1976]

I hope I'm not doing a disservice by posting these things in this forum as opposed to the more electronic/drive/Mach forums, but we have lots of time invested in this machine and it seems more appropriate to post it here.

So, having said that, part of the riddle is solved but part still remains a mystery. The Hitachi drive is fine..it would not control the spindle when commanded through the software because it was being told to run FWD and REV at the same time which resulted in a 'no run' situation.

The digital output on the MX3660 is outputting two relays at the same time which give the drive the incorrect command. The MACH software which is driving the ESS which in turn is signalling the MX3660 shows the proper signals and pin locations are being triggered, but the MX3660 is still firing both outputs at one time.

I have a email in to Leadshine to see if they can shed some light on the situation. My next troubleshooting step will be to see if the ESS is in fact sending a FWD/REV signal to the MX3660 when it shouldn't. This will prove it isn't the MX3660 that's at fault.

All this monkey motion started with a E-stop during a fast Z move that destroyed the power supply and the MX3660 stepper driver.

Stuart

Any chance it could have took the control board out as well when it took out the driver and psu?

[atomarc]

dazp1976,

I would guess that could be possible but the ESS has a very good setup and diagnostic interface on the MACH4 screen and everything seems to work perfectly. The ESS board shows all green lights and the setup shows the correct outputs, and they change state perfectly when commanded by MACH.

If I can figure out how to accomplish this next task it would isolate the culprit to either the new 3660 or the ESS board, but I'm electronically challenged and do not want to blow anything up.

The next sensible check would be to pull the ribbon cable from the ESS off of the 3660, Identify the two pins (#1 and #17 in our case ) on the DB 25 connector and see it they both fire when only a single FWD or REV is given. This would tell me if the 3660 was actually being told to close both output relays at the same time..or there is a glitch in the 3660 itself.

My limited electronic skills would tell me there should be a 5v output from the ESS to the relay board (BOB) on the 3660, so if I could find that voltage between a pin and common it should show that the pin is getting a output signal. What I don't know is if doing this with a simple meter will blow the transistor in the ESS, and I don't want that.

Help from Leadshine seems to have dried up so I could be on my own to stumble through this. Thank you for you comments and interest and feel free to offer any guidance electronically.

Stuart

[Kenny Duval]

Correct. If the ESS is being commanded by Mach 4 the output is either active high or active low. Motor on is likely active high so you should see 5 volts from the pin on the ESS assigned to close the relay. The other portion of that control would be direction. Forward or Reverse would also be assigned a pin and an active high or low output from Mach. That is assuming you aren't talking directly to the VFD via RS-485.