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Thread: THE GRIZZ

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  1. #101
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    Oct 2013
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    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Thanks. All the drive motor configurations are already set so changing them isn't an option. Doing a bit more searching has turned up a 'table enclosure' versus a 'full enclosure', and I think that's what I may go with..a table enclosure.


    Stuart

  2. #102
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    Aug 2008
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    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    Thanks. All the drive motor configurations are already set so changing them isn't an option. Doing a bit more searching has turned up a 'table enclosure' versus a 'full enclosure', and I think that's what I may go with..a table enclosure.

    https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#in...2c?projector=1

    Stuart
    You linked a Google inbox...


    What exactly is your goal for this machine?

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  3. #103
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    Oct 2013
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    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Yike...try this.

    https://youtu.be/AyOtzjRlRH4

    Stuart

  4. #104
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    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    Yike...try this.

    https://youtu.be/AyOtzjRlRH4

    Stuart
    Stuart,

    If your plans are too piddle around here and there and make the occasional gadget that will suffice ok. But if you are planning to make parts in any volume, you are spinning your wheels. If you consider the space to the sides and front of the machine need to be clear anyhow due to the table movement, having an enclosure 1" bigger than table travel extremes is really nothing. You can't really do anything with the air space in the work cube, all the walls of the enclosure are really doing is showing you where you couldn't put anything anyhow. So while a table enclosure may look like it saves space, it really doesn't... You can always put wheels on the base of you want to roll it out to get to the entries cabinet, but once everything is setup you will really need to get in there.



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  5. #105
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Well that does make sense! Your insight is very helpful and I appreciate it. This is going to take a bit more thought on my part.

    Thank you,

    Stuart

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    80

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    Yike...try this.

    https://youtu.be/AyOtzjRlRH4

    Stuart
    Stuart, thanks for that link. I think I'll coppy that. Like you I don't have room for a full enclosure but for my purposes I think the table enclosure would be just fine. I rarely run more than 3 or 4 parts but normally have a lot of setup so a full enclosure would get in the way most likely anyway.

    Kurt

  7. #107
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    1185

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    One way to save space is to make the enclosure ends "soft" ends. When the table is at its extreme travels it really does take a fair mount of room but most all the time you will be working off a vice or a smaller jig.

    The X axes motor side could be a soft piece of clear plastic that hangs over from the top and lays into the bottom tray allowing the motor to stick out at full travel but allowing the box to be 6" or more smaller. The other side could be the same. Knocks off a foot or so.

    I'm going to have to do my IH that way soon when I go full flood. I have a walk way that needs to be clear most the time so I cant have a enclosure blocking the way but I do need full travel so both sides of the enclosure will be soft to allow for full table extension.
    youtube videos of the G0704 under the name arizonavideo99

  8. #108
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    Aug 2008
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    1186

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    I whipped this up last night... if you plan on doing production work and don't want to waste your time cleaning out chips multiple times daily and getting messy, this is the way to do it! is it overkill? possibly if you aren't making lots of parts. but what i learned early on in production work on this small machine is that small chunks of aluminum stock some how expand by a ratio of what seems like 1000 times. and if you are continually running parts, it just keeps growing. on heavy machining days now I have to clean out once before lunch and twice more in the afternoon or the table will be pushing chip piles around. this will be in my future i think when i do the full linear rail conversion mods!

    Attachment 354952

  9. #109
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    Feb 2006
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    7063

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Personally, I think an auger on a machine this size is ridiculous. Design to trays so the coolant and chips all go to one CORNER of the enclosure. Use a washdown hose to get the chips to that corner, then scoop them out. My machine can generate a full garbage can of chips in a day, and it takes only about 5 minutes to clean it up at the end of the day. An auger is a complicated solution to a problem that does not exist.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  10. #110
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    Mar 2004
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    413

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts on this subject that may ease my mental anguish?
    I sure like the design you have for your tray. I wanted something like that myself, but I had been using whatever I had laying around to make a base/cabinet and did not think far enough ahead to get everything to go in one direction. It was important enough to me that I almost did it all over, but then decided to live with what I did because this is just an occasional use hobby machine (I tend to build more machines than actually make anything with them).

    So, for one, I would stick with your tapered to front design, I love that ! But, I would probably skip the auger, or at least make it that you can add an auger when and if really necessary.

    Dimensionally, I ended up with a 58" wide by 22" deep cabinet with tray area, but the machines column adds another 3" or so out the back. While the machine has progressed since, there are some pics of my cabinet and tray at the bottom of this thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...-opinions.html
    Chris L

  11. #111
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    Aug 2008
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    1186

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    Personally, I think an auger on a machine this size is ridiculous. Design to trays so the coolant and chips all go to one CORNER of the enclosure. Use a washdown hose to get the chips to that corner, then scoop them out. My machine can generate a full garbage can of chips in a day, and it takes only about 5 minutes to clean it up at the end of the day. An auger is a complicated solution to a problem that does not exist.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    A problem that doesn't exist? A machine that can easily run all day at an MRR of 2-3in³ and that has an enclosure 1/10th the size of a full size vmc. If anything I'd say these small machines in a production environment have more need for an auger than a larger vmc because the chore of clearing the enclosure happens more frequently.

    There are great benefits to keeping your​ enclosure clean and clear of piled up chips.. here are a few:

    1- Easier to switch between different materials without a full manual cleaning

    2- use of an air gun to clear and dry a part batch for removal, change a fixture plate, clean vise jaws, doesn't end in a plume of chips that goes everywhere and just makes a bigger mess.

    3- minimize cleanup to a 30 second washdown at the he end of the day and come in the morning to a fresh looking clean machine ready to get started.

    4- no sticky scooper laying around, less clutter

    5- no time wasted on cleaning the machine while it could be running

    6- reduced chance of chips being blown into undesirable areas in the machine, between table and saddle, under chip guard and into the machine base on the screws.

    7- better/faster coolant drain back because it isn't filtering through 6" of chip debris sitting there uselessly covering the drain return.

    I'm sure there are more, these are the ones I deal with daily. As to complicated.... It's a $20 auger bit available online, a cheap gearmotor, two pulleys, a belt, a bracket and a bearing. It's only as complicated as you make it. I'm pretty sure it's one of the least complicated additions to these machines I will make providing you plan for it from the start. I only wish I had done it from go and designed the machine for it in advance rather than make the hobbyist "V" style pan that is as much headache as it is help. Unfortunately, the people here when I was getting started had such little forethought or ideas of how things could be and no one dared question their engineering"brilliance" for fear of public persecution. However I speak with several people still from back then still running there small machines and constantly asking why people still follow the wrong advise or examples. M just making sure that anyone who will run there machine alot benefits from the experience and knowledge I've acquired and not swallow what a hobbyist making two parts a month says it's fine when they can't possibly know any better. Not saying that's you Ray, but I see it done constantly and it's unfair to the guys laying out their time and cash to follow air that won't serve them well.

    I bet if you ask everyone with the typical V chip pan that piles chips under the table if they wish they built their pan differently the response would be a resounding YES! And yet I see very little discussion about it, isn't it better to help guide new machine builders in a better direction if we can, isn't that what the community is for to expend and grow the hobby pushing it forward making build better for the next batch of hobbyists to come though?

    Stuart, I apologize for being a bit on the adamant side, but I do think your build to date has addressed 95% of the issues a G0704 owner would/will deal with and for that you will be a very happy machine owner. You have the right Spindle motor, the right bearings in the Spindle, the upgraded linear rail column, started off with a PDB, and your work is a thing of beauty to watch unfold. The benefit of all those good choices will be a machine that surprises you in how capable it is. I just hate to see something as simple as lack of a good enclosure and flood coolant be the crutch that handicaps the machines capabilities for you after all your hard work!

    Chris



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  12. #112
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    A few "grizz" updates..... After much deliberation we have come up with at plan for the chip / coolant containment on the grizz. Full enclosure it will be!!! (Chris its all your fault!!! ) Went to the local metal supply house and had some 16 gauge sheet metal sheared and bent.... Planning on starting the enclosure build in the next few days. A few posts back there was talk / concern about the gas spring being to strong and wanting to always push the head up.... ordered and received an 80 pound replacement gas spring, did some testing with it and its much better now (downward bias). We also got a different hydraulic intensifier... this new one is a single acting spring return unit with a higher 30:1 pressure ratio, allowing us to achieve our 4000ish pounds required for the draw-bar all the while only requiring 70ish pounds of air to make it happen... (never know when you might need the extra head room!) Slowly but surely things are progressing, its amazing how much work putting together a little machine is!



    (testing of the intensifier)






    (aint nobody got time for instructions! )





    (What could make a "grizz" video better you ask?.... how about a 4K grizz video!!! subscribe! )

    https://youtu.be/w2BmuUabeJ0



    (no going back now!!! lol)





    (home and ready to go under the knife)



    Thanks for looking!!!

  13. #113
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    A little Monday morning update! Spent the weekend working on the enclosure, got the base of the pan shaped up and we started putting the front walls of the enclosure on, going to work our way around intell we have a completed "box". Planning on having sliding doors on the front of the enclosure as well 2 access / viewing windows on the side of the enclosure...




    (a little cuttin-n-welding later...)





    (something like this...)





    (slightly modified flange tool! (16g sheetmetal!)





    (one of the front panels after being flanged and punched ready to be welded in)





    (you see where this is going!)









    (a few boogers later and shes rock solid lol!!!)





    (both panels tacked on)


  14. #114
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    Aug 2008
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    1186

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Glad you went to a full enclosure, think you'll appreciate its benefits!

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  15. #115
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Thanks for the advise Chris! We should be able to pump some coolant now that we have a proper enclosure!



    (on a side note / everybody likes pictures. The mail man dropped off a new toy.... sweeeeeet!)


  16. #116
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    I sure hope the German 'taster' and the Chinese 'mill' get along together...it's a little late in the game for a divorce.

    Stuart

  17. #117
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    Aug 2008
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    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    I sure hope the German 'taster' and the Chinese 'mill' get along together...it's a little late in the game for a divorce.

    Stuart
    You'll love it!.... But beware, not cheap to own..Lol. tips are about $50 a pop, and they aren't hard to break 😐

    Question for you on that tool for the sheet metal, I'm building my lathe enclosure and was just this morning considering purchasing something like that for Lap joints, how do you like it? With the purchase in your opinion?

    Keep up the great work!

    Chris



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  18. #118
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Chris,

    I'll be sure to keep the big hammer away from the 'taster'.

    Regarding the Harbor Freight flange tool..it works great. We bought it during a 20% off sale so it was only a tad over $30 dollars. For all the junk that Harbor Freight imports, they really have dialed in their air tools. The fit and finish on that stuff is incredible for the price, and they seem to work fine too!

    I took the flange tool apart and machined the two pieces so they would create a flatter seam/flange in the 16 gauge I used for the pan. The punch end of the tool pops a nice clean hole with no problem at all..the thing is worth the money. It is a air over hydraulic device and you need to fill the little reservoir with oil and let it bleed a bit before you use it.

    The fancy lap joint deal was my son's (Nick) idea, I would have stuck the sheets of steel together with some tack welds and gone on my merry way. Nick is a perfectionist for sure, and the lap joint does make the enclosure look a little more professional.

    Stuart

  19. #119
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    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1186

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by atomarc View Post
    Chris,

    I'll be sure to keep the big hammer away from the 'taster'.

    Regarding the Harbor Freight flange tool..it works great. We bought it during a 20% off sale so it was only a tad over $30 dollars. For all the junk that Harbor Freight imports, they really have dialed in their air tools. The fit and finish on that stuff is incredible for the price, and they seem to work fine too!

    I took the flange tool apart and machined the two pieces so they would create a flatter seam/flange in the 16 gauge I used for the pan. The punch end of the tool pops a nice clean hole with no problem at all..the thing is worth the money. It is a air over hydraulic device and you need to fill the little reservoir with oil and let it bleed a bit before you use it.

    The fancy lap joint deal was my son's (Nick) idea, I would have stuck the sheets of steel together with some tack welds and gone on my merry way. Nick is a perfectionist for sure, and the lap joint does make the enclosure look a little more professional.

    Stuart
    Stuart,

    That's great information! I appreciate the review on the dishes/pinch to, think I need to grab one! I love harbor freight for some things, others are questionable but for the most part they offer a ton of excellent product at a very budget friendly price. I'm curious, do you think it would handle 0.120" aluminum with some modification to the jaws? I know our situation, just curious though as that is what I like to use for my pan and leave it unpainted so I never have to deal with maintenance.

    On the High, is not hammered that gets them.. is operator error.. an oversight on steps per inch when walking it in to zero, moving the wrong direction to go away from zero in a hole, etc.. the tips are sacrificial ceramic to save the expensive Haimer internals in the event of these crashes so they simply crack at b me break away.. and like I said each one of those mistakes is a $50 learning experience.. it will run your day..

    I may have missed it, but are you going to be using Mach 3? If so, best money spent right out of the gate is to grab a touch probe, I use the one below with excellent success. And I would also recommend MachSTDMill, it is a fabulous setup for Mach 3 that makes machining with a PDB and TTS your to holders or non repeatable to holders a dream and has a huge Denton of probing routines built in. The user interface is excellent on it as well, in my opinion it is by far the best Mach 3 interface available bar none! My favorite function is using the probe to as the master tool by which all other tool height offsets are gaged, so you simply pop the probe in, auto find your zero on the stock, just get it close to a corner, hit a button, let it do its thing and your ready to machine, all other tools are ready to go!

    For the probe, of is dialed in and calibrated with a ruby tip, I find it repeats as well as +/-0.0001" this of course is dependant on machine mechanical backlash and movement (not accounting for stiction). I calibration mine using a 1" ground precision round Gage pin and a 1" cage ring, works awesome to dial in the tip diameter and trigger movement distance. Very easy to do! Fantastic combination to have!

    Sorry got off topic a little but definitely give it a look, m my productivity increased exponentially once I started using it and all of us great features!

    Chris

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  20. #120
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    Oct 2013
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    543

    Re: THE GRIZZ

    Chris,

    The flange tool from HF is limited by the die opening. I think the thing is rated for 16 gauge which is about a .060 thick. The tool definitely has the power to flange the .120 aluminum but you will have to open up the dies with some machining.

    I think we're going to use Mach-4 as it seems to be the latest version available. I have seen the touch probe videos and it looks killer but I don't know how it interfaces with Mach-4. That's down the road a bit.

    Stuart

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