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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Cincinatti arrow 500 1998
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  1. #1
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    Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    Hi guys my arrow 500 was equipped with rigid tapping i have'nt used the machine for a while and went to do some drilling and tapping and an alarm saying no rigid tapping avail must purchase from machine builder when i try and do so now had no probs for 2 years with this. Does anyone no the parremeter or how to put this back in as it does not appear to be in purchased options and come to think about it i can not remember seeing it there.cheers and thanks in advance.

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    Re: Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    I assume you have an A2100 control! You should have an option code that you put into the control to turn on the options you purchased with the machine, it has about 20 numbers. To turn any options you did not purchase, you will need to contact SIEMENS 800 879 8079 and purchase the option. They will send you a sheet with the option code to turn on that option. Did you replace the hard drive or do something that would cause you to loose your option code?? Look through your doc to see if you can find the code that came with the machine.

    MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

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    Re: Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    Mike we did change out the hard drive and i do have the purchased options sheet but the weird thing is the sheet does not have that as a option however when you go into purchased options on the machine it has way more than what the sheet has but it does not show the rigid tapping option on the machine only reserved blanks with yes next to them the machine came with this option cause i used it for 2 years up untill we changed the hard drive?any clues.

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    Re: Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    Are you sure that the SN # on the sheet is the same as the SN # of your control/machine???? Do you have more then one of the same machines?? Have you tried to turn on the option??

    MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

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    Quote Originally Posted by meckardt55 View Post
    Are you sure that the SN # on the sheet is the same as the SN # of your control/machine???? Do you have more then one of the same machines?? Have you tried to turn on the option??

    MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services
    Mike had a good look this morning the hard drive we had originally had to be changed because it was damaged but it is a Siemens hard drive not a clone the new one we installed is also a genuine Siemens hard drive but it appears that it does not have the option for rigid tapping im not sure about turning it on we also noticed in the errors list it seemed that rigid tapping was turned off around the same time we changed the hard drive.

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    Re: Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    Mike is rigid tapping acually in the option colums or does it come under a different heading,I found the original hard drive sheet with the authorized code I think, but im not sure this will be applicable with the new hard drive,is there something i am missing on how to turn this feature back on.cheers greg.

  7. #7
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    Re: Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    The authorization code is tied to your control serial number, not the hard drive.

    Error history is stored on the hard drive so any history of rigid tapping not working before you installed the hard drive could not possibly show up when you view it. I state this only because your determination that it started at this time is based on the error history (which is irrelevant in your situation). Based on your explanation of the replacement hard drive, it is extremely likely this is when the issue started.

    If your "new" hard drive was pulled from another machine rather than cloned from your machine's hard drive, it is authorized for the other machine's options, not yours. Since the options code is tied to the control serial number, that means none of the options are actually authorized for your control. Earlier software versions were more forgiving of this, but later versions wouldn't boot up without throwing alarms indicating the option content is invalid.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    The authorization code is tied to your control serial number, not the hard drive.

    Error history is stored on the hard drive so any history of rigid tapping not working before you installed the hard drive could not possibly show up when you view it. I state this only because your determination that it started at this time is based on the error history (which is irrelevant in your situation). Based on your explanation of the replacement hard drive, it is extremely likely this is when the issue started.

    If your "new" hard drive was pulled from another machine rather than cloned from your machine's hard drive, it is authorized for the other machine's options, not yours. Since the options code is tied to the control serial number, that means none of the options are actually authorized for your control. Earlier software versions were more forgiving of this, but later versions wouldn't boot up without throwing alarms indicating the option content is invalid.
    Hi mav actually when we changed the hard drive it was one that came spare with the machine and we got it autherised by siemens and we used the floppy that came with our machine to load it along with siemens code at the time but we have only just started to use it,and around that time there is a error in the history of the machine that says rigid tapping disabled or something like that i would need to take another look.All the hard drives i speak of belong to this machine,would it help if i reload the floppy or download the original imformation from my laptop which we took from the machine when we purchased it?

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    Re: Cincinatti arrow 500 1998

    I can't speak for what you have on either of your hard drives (nor do I know if you bought this new or used), but even if the replacement "spare" hard drive was purchased directly from Siemens, it would not have had all of the software on it that you need to run your machine, nor would it be configured to allow your specific machine to run properly. Only Cincinnati was able to do this, and all they could do was get it back to approximately what was shipped to you. Since software versions changed quickly back then, unless the hard drive was purchased as a spare for this machine when it was new, the chances of having a plug and play spare hard drive are practically non-existent.

    Based on real world experience with people buying used machines around here, what you received for a spare was likely a hard drive pulled from a similar machine that was taken out of service, one the distributor had laying around for troubleshooting or one that failed for one reason or another and was replaced leaving the seller with it as an extra.

    If you made a machine dependent data backup of your original hard drive, you can try restoring this to the new hard drive. If the software versions of the original and new hard drives are compatible, it "should" restore your machine to the working condition of the original hard drive. I say should because this process was sometimes glitchy and particularly if the software versions were not the same, could create issues when it is restored. Just be sure to make a new backup before you restore the old one in case it creates more issues than it solves. I should also mention any changes to the machine's setup since the machine dependent data backup was created will have been lost, so if items such as tool change height, spindle orientation (depending on vintage), etc. have been changed, they will go back to the earlier settings and could cause a crash so be careful when testing the machine after this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    I can't speak for what you have on either of your hard drives (nor do I know if you bought this new or used), but even if the replacement "spare" hard drive was purchased directly from Siemens, it would not have had all of the software on it that you need to run your machine, nor would it be configured to allow your specific machine to run properly. Only Cincinnati was able to do this, and all they could do was get it back to approximately what was shipped to you. Since software versions changed quickly back then, unless the hard drive was purchased as a spare for this machine when it was new, the chances of having a plug and play spare hard drive are practically non-existent.

    Based on real world experience with people buying used machines around here, what you received for a spare was likely a hard drive pulled from a similar machine that was taken out of service, one the distributor had laying around for troubleshooting or one that failed for one reason or another and was replaced leaving the seller with it as an extra.

    If you made a machine dependent data backup of your original hard drive, you can try restoring this to the new hard drive. If the software versions of the original and new hard drives are compatible, it "should" restore your machine to the working condition of the original hard drive. I say should because this process was sometimes glitchy and particularly if the software versions were not the same, could create issues when it is restored. Just be sure to make a new backup before you restore the old one in case it creates more issues than it solves. I should also mention any changes to the machine's setup since the machine dependent data backup was created will have been lost, so if items such as tool change height, spindle orientation (depending on vintage), etc. have been changed, they will go back to the earlier settings and could cause a crash so be careful when testing the machine after this.
    Thanks again mav for your reply,the hard drive in question was purchased by the original owner new from Siemens but was never configured as the original hard drive that came with the machine was still going strong,its only now that it crapped out we have installed the second one that was unused but we got the data from siemans to install it but we had to use our back up floppy to configure it which all went well untill we had to use rigid tapping.What i was wondering if the previous owner got into the parameters and changed it that way but thats only a guess.Any time we touch these machines we know better than to just run a program without testing but i see your point very well,hey have a great christmas and all the best for the new year and thanks again i will keep persevering cheers.

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