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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Controller & Computer Solutions > Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    First off, let me say that I have several years experience working with Mach3 and enough time messing with EMC to not be completely stupid.

    I recently picked up an old (1996-ish) GSI/View Voyager video measurement/inspection machine that I'd like to convert from the proprietary control software to either Mach or EMC. My problem is that I have zero experience with servos. encoders, etc. so I am at a loss as to what needs to be added/replaced to make this work. As it sits now, everything works and can be controlled by the View software and joystick. Here is the current setup...

    2x Motion Engineering PC-DSP cards in the PC (I'm guessing one for motion control & one for the Renishaw scales/encoders)
    Interface card between the PC card and amps (this appears to be a simple pass through connection panel between the PC & the machine)
    3x Glentek SMA-7105 servo amps
    3x Glentek GM-2325 servos
    Renishaw RGH22 encoders on each axis

    I just got the service manual and it has dozens of pages of schematics, but haven't had a chance to do more than a quick browse through it.
    Any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,
    Brian

  2. #2
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    Dec 2013
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    5717

    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    That sounds like a good fit for a Mach3/Gali system. I would use a Galil DMC-4133 motion controller which would connect to Mach3 via an ethernet cable. This would give you solid encoder feedback to the Mach3 DRO screen. You would disconnect the servo drives and encoders from the Motion Engineering cards and connect them to the Galil controller. This would work fine and be really easy as long as the vision system is completely separate from the motion system. If the vision system is integrated, then it becomes (much) more complicated.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    That sounds like a good fit for a Mach3/Gali system. I would use a Galil DMC-4133 motion controller which would connect to Mach3 via an ethernet cable. This would give you solid encoder feedback to the Mach3 DRO screen. You would disconnect the servo drives and encoders from the Motion Engineering cards and connect them to the Galil controller. This would work fine and be really easy as long as the vision system is completely separate from the motion system. If the vision system is integrated, then it becomes (much) more complicated.
    Good deal, the vision system is a completely separate setup. I'll check out the Galil controller asap.

    Thanks a ton!

  4. #4
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Happy to help out. If you have any questions I'll try to answer them.

  5. #5
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Another quick question, is there any advantage to to going with the Ethernet controller over one of the PCI or even ISA versions? I only ask because there seem to be a pretty significant price difference and with this being a personal/hobbyist use machine, the less money I have to throw at it, the better.

    Thanks again,
    Brian

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    I don't think that the Mach3 plugin supports all versions, so you need to make sure you get one that the plugin supports.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  7. #7
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Right, I understand that, but the plugin supports different form factors in each series of cards. I was just curious if there were advantages/disadvantages specific to each.

  8. #8
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    As far as I know Mach3 supports most of the cards. There are some that it does not support. As far as which is the best value for your application, and now that I know that this is a hobby project I'll take a quick look on ebay to make a recommendation.

    Everything I list below is known to be compatible with Mach3

    This one is probably the best deal on Ebay, 8 axis, built in drives, but not sure if stepper or servo. Even with the built in drives it can be used to run external steppers or servos also.
    Galil dmc-4183 Ethernet/RS232 Econo Motion Controllers, 1-8 axes used | eBay

    This one would work, missing the100 pin output connector for axis 5-8. Requires a breakout (below), and a $135 cable to use (not included)
    Galil Motion control card, Galil DMC-1880, PCI, 8 axis controller | eBay

    Requires a breakout (below), and a $135 cable to use (not included)
    GALIL DMC-1842 PCI 4 AXIS Econo Motion Control Card | eBay

    This looks complete, I don't think it requires anything else to run.
    Galil DMC-2240 Motion Controller with ICM 2900 and ICM 2908, 30 Day Warranty | eBay

    4 axis, built in drives, but not sure if stepper or servo drives. Even with the built in drives it can be used to run external steppers or servos also.
    GALIL DMC-4143 41X3 4-AXIS ECONO MOTION CONTROL CONTROLLER ETHERNET USB RS232 | eBay

    3 axis, includes the 100 pin cable, not a bad deal. Still requires the breakout (below).
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/GALIL-DMC-18...AAAOSwa~BYN33k

    Phoenix Contact 100 pin breakout

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOENIX-CONT...cAAOSwWZ9XoMqZ

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOENIX-CONT...EAAOxye2lSXVYu

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phoenix-Cont...8AAMXQVERSwZU1

  9. #9
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    Nov 2012
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Jim, thanks a ton for the recommendations! The DMC-4183 is actually one of the auctions I have saved. I'm still curious though, is there any advantage to going with a PCI card over an external version and vice versa?

  10. #10
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Mmmmmm,tough question. The down side of the PCI card versions is they pretty much require a full sized desktop or server style PC to install them. Then there is the expensive cable and breakout board. That breakout board is about $325 from non-ebay vendors. Having said that, I use those in all of my industrial upgrades for sawmill equipment. On the up side, I think the communication is faster because it's operating at bus speeds. I have the DMC-1846 cards in both my mill and router. But I just installed a DMC-4080 in a Shizuoka AN-S mill that I have sitting in my shop.

    The Ethernet boards work fine, and they have the same processor as the equivalent PCI boards. The cabling costs are about the same per axis. They also allow you to run them off of a laptop.or micro computer that doesn't have PCI slots so you can have that flexibility.

    I'm not sure if the Mach3 plug-in for Galil will work with the PCI bus cards past WinXP or Vista, I have not tried it with Win7 or Win10. The Ethernet cards will work with Mach3 at least to Win7, and should work with Win10 but I have not tried it. Galil changed their drivers at Win7. I guess I should try Mach3/PCI, I have a Galil card in my desktop, and Win10. I don't normally use Mach3, but I do have it around here somewhere. I've been working with Galil products for about 20 years, so am pretty much up to speed on them.

  11. #11
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    An update I loaded up Mach3 on my Win10 computer and was able to communicate with the Galil card in my computer by using the Galiltools drivers.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1189

    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Hi
    i would just do an comparison of the cost and benefit of the 2 versions to be sure
    You need an dedicated pc anyway ,.. depending on your needs it may be that the flexibility and stability of an linuxcnc system is worth the change ( as torrmach did )
    we use in our system small MINI ITX boards which are fabless an cheap maybe you look at the mesa cards and do your maths
    just my 5 cents

  13. #13
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    I've got another quick question for you guys if you don't mind. I bought a DMC-1830 PCI controller card which calls for the ICM-1900 bob. My question is, can I just use the breakout that's on the machine now, assuming that I can match the pinouts on each end of the cable?

  14. #14
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Not really, the ICM-1900 has some electronics on it for the charge pump (+/- 10V) signal, as does this BoB.

    PHOENIX CONTACT 5602077, COMMUNICATION MODEL, 1A, #222642 | eBay

    I would buy the one from ebay, much easier to mount and connect. You also need the 100 pin cable.

  15. #15
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Gotcha & thank you yet again. I've got the 100 pin cable coming with the card but wanted to make sure about the breakout board before I ordered it.

  16. #16
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Jim (or anyone else), I was wondering if I could pick you brain a bit for some info on getting this setup running.

    My understanding of servo systems is pretty limited, so please bear with me if I ask the proverbial "stupid question." I've got the DMC-1830 & Phoenix Contact 5602077 installed but I'm having problems with the encoders. I have Renishaw RGH22C's (12 μA analog differential), which are one of only a couple of analog models in that line of encoders. At the moment, I'm kind of lost on how these should be connected. I tried hooking them up like a standard differential encoder, but the servos runaway anytime I try to use one of the tuning methods in GalilSuite.

  17. #17
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    The encoder direction and the motor direction don't agree. So in GalilSuite type in CEn=2, where n=the axis (Configure Encoder). This swaps the encoder signals direction. Type in BN to burn to memory

    If you don't have the command reference and the user manual for the Galil card, you can download them from Galil






  18. #18
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Ignore what I said above, I need to have my first cup of coffee before I answer.

    It is possible to connect a sin/cos encoder (analog) to the Galil, but I have never done it. Download the Command Reference, and the User Manual from Galil. I'll research this a bit.

    Google ''
    galil connecting sin/cos encoder''

    Also Google ''sin cos to incremental converter''

  19. #19
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    It's kind of funny, but I was going to try the configure encoder command when I got home from work this afternoon. I've downloaded the command reference and will check it out when I get home. Once again, I can't thank you enough for your help.

  20. #20
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    Re: Seeking advice on converting machine to either Mach or LinuxCNC

    Ok, so if I'm reading the reference correctly, AF 1,1,1 will set all 3 axis' to analog feedback? What I'm still kind of lost on is the the way they current vs voltage. I'm not sure what to enter for the interpolation command or if there is anything else I may need to input for the 12 μA encoders.

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