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  1. #21
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by lbtrs View Post
    I recently got a similar machine, a Biesse Rover 342, and already hate the built in control. Will probably also convert to LinuxCNC. Not quite sure how to handle all the spindles and stuff though.
    I had the majority of the machine converted to linuxcnc in about3.5 weeks. I am working on a toolchanger scheme with spindle selection. It is 75% completed. Not that hard. Have to remap Tn M6 through python, and voila. Will upload video when completed. That and a button panel to finish, but I am cutting contracts on it already.

    Not that hard to do.

  2. #22
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by lbtrs View Post
    I recently got a similar machine, a Biesse Rover 342, and already hate the built in control. Will probably also convert to LinuxCNC. Not quite sure how to handle all the spindles and stuff though.
    Hi, I got the same machine, a Biesse rover 342, but the controller was broken, it never ran in my shop, so I 'm in the process of retrofitting (taking it apart and seeing what we have to deal with). This machine is +25 years of age and not much can be found online of the components used. one of the "bigger deal" components I cant find anything on are the encoders used on the servo's they are hohner H3393 (I may have to swap them out)

    once you start your conversion let me know, I may have some tips for you

  3. #23
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bramvh View Post
    Hi, I got the same machine, a Biesse rover 342, but the controller was broken, it never ran in my shop, so I 'm in the process of retrofitting (taking it apart and seeing what we have to deal with). This machine is +25 years of age and not much can be found online of the components used. one of the "bigger deal" components I cant find anything on are the encoders used on the servo's they are hohner H3393 (I may have to swap them out)

    once you start your conversion let me know, I may have some tips for you
    He is going to use Linuxcnc, no need to change out encoders. They work fine, The drive gets the encoders, then output to Linuxcnc. I did one of these machines and had no issues.

  4. #24
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bevins View Post
    He is going to use Linuxcnc, no need to change out encoders. They work fine, The drive gets the encoders, then output to Linuxcnc. I did one of these machines and had no issues.
    I am also going to use Linuxcnc with Mesa cards, on my machine the servo drives get feedback from the motors via hall effect, and the hohner encoder on the motors goes directly to the controller it doesn't go to the drive, there are 2 types of feedback from the servo motor one goes to the drive the other one goes to the controller, the controller sends an analog signal to the drive

  5. #25
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bramvh View Post
    I am also going to use Linuxcnc with Mesa cards, on my machine the servo drives get feedback from the motors via hall effect, and the hohner encoder on the motors goes directly to the controller it doesn't go to the drive, there are 2 types of feedback from the servo motor one goes to the drive the other one goes to the controller, the controller sends an analog signal to the drive
    I allready did mine and all motor wiring goes to the drives. There is no encoders on mine going directly to the controller. From the Yaskawa drives, it went to the controller. I removed them and connected them to the 7i77. It is an output out of the yaskawa drives.

    Mine is using Yaskawa drives. It is a 1995. Maybe on yours it might be but I havent seen it. What year is yours?

    EDIT

    Sorry, mine is a Biesse 346, not the same machine....

    /EDIT

  6. #26
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bevins View Post
    I allready did mine and all motor wiring goes to the drives. There is no encoders going directly to the controller.

    Mine is using Yaskawa drives. It is a 1995. Maybe on yours it might be but I havent seen it. What year is yours?
    the machine is from 1991, and uses GEC ALSTHOM drives from PARVEX type CMS2 attached is a photo, to my knowledge all 342 machines uses these types of drives, the 346 machines have other drives and motors

    Attachment 356458

  7. #27
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    My machine also hast GEC ALSTHOM PARVEX drives + motors, it seems the drives get feedback via separate resolver, and the NC controller gets position via Hohner optical incremental encoders. Didn't find anything about them either, nevertheless, it should work in principle, encoder has sticker with pinout / how the cable is used. I'm not sure what voltage they run on or what kind of signal they deliver.

    Inspecting the NC axis control board, i found some AM26LV32 chips, so it would not surprise me if encoder signaling was rs-422 levels, two phases with index (A+/-, B+/-, O+/-). Will check with oscilloscope before doing anything stupid.

    Encoder on 4th axis seems to be damaged. Zeroing C-Axis in original CNI controller spins forever...

    For interfacing the inputs and outputs (relay-boards) I designed some custom PCBs to connect the CNI breakout-boards to the mesa cards, PCBs should arrive in 2 weeks, will post update if and when it works out

  8. #28
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Hi,

    Seems like you have some advantage over me I do not have a working controller, nor do I have stickers on the encoders so I don't know what cable does what, but you are right, they do seem to be differential signal, I haven't worked out the voltage they run on either.
    Could you share some pictures or maybe do some measurement on the voltage going to the encoder?

    Maybe we should create a new topic for our conversion, but I don't know where to put that.

    Best regards,
    Bram

  9. #29
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    I have the schematics nearly completed, the NC and some E-Stop stuff are the last missing parts. Will put it on github or something when ready.

    Voltage- and other measurements are planned for next week, also have to figure out how to do a tool change with the CNI controller to take notes what has to be activated where and when...

  10. #30
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Some pictures of the Y-axis encoder and where the cables are connected.

  11. #31
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Thanks for that,

    unfortunately the color codes do not match real life for me, and the type of encoder is slightly different mine has no 0 at the end,
    the picture of the connections is for the Hall effect sensors they go to the drive, the encoder cables go directly to the NC

  12. #32
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bramvh View Post
    Thanks for that,

    unfortunately the color codes do not match real life for me, and the type of encoder is slightly different mine has no 0 at the end,
    the picture of the connections is for the Hall effect sensors they go to the drive, the encoder cables go directly to the NC
    yeah, thats possible. Did not trace the cables. The machine is very dusty, the cabinet needs another round of vacuuming.

    The habit of running cables through the cabinet to the NC and the drives is somewhat nasty. Makes it nearly impossible to disconnect the whole cabinet.

  13. #33
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    pinout of the CNI axis controller is:

    First axis encoder: 18Z, 18D: A', A; 16Z, 16D: B', B; 14Z, 14D: Z, Z', colors are green/orange, gray/yellow and white/red. second axis encoder is 12Z-8D, third axis 6Z-2D.

    Output to servo drives is on 32D/Z resp. 30D/Z resp. 38D/Z, supply for encoders is 20D, 22D (both +12V) and 20Z/22Z (GND).
    Pinout is written on male connector (the one on the card), first row up is 32, then 30 and so on, columns are Z (leftmost), B, D.

    Voltages on encoder lines is +12V/0V resp. inverse.

    Hope this helps.

  14. #34
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Thanks that is extremely helpful

    I received my mesa cards yesterday, I will probably be installing them this week, I am going for a 5i25 + 7i77 + 7i74 and on the 7i74: 7i70 + 2x7i71 + 7i73 + 7i83
    so from your post I understand that:
    A' = green
    A = orange
    B' = gray
    B = yellow
    Z' = white
    Z = red
    GND = black
    +12V = blue

    Attachment 358344
    Attachment 358346

  15. #35
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bramvh View Post
    from your post I understand that...
    This information is from the schematics. I checked only the A-channel of the Z-axis with the oscilloscope, but pinout, cable colors etc... is consistent with the other axis and makes sense.

    My setup will be one 7i90 with SPI, one 7i44 and one 7i48, and a bunch of 7i90s with smart serial for I/O. Controller will be a RaspberryPi 3 (most probably). Received the cards yesterday, currently fighting the firmware.

  16. #36
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by bevins View Post
    Hi all,

    I just purchased a Biesse Rover 346 with intents of retrofitting with Linuxcnc.

    I plan on using mesa cards:
    5i25, 7i77, 7i74, 7i70 and 2X 7i71.

    I have the machine in my shop and mapping out all the I/O's.
    Waiting on connectors to connect 600V to the machine.

    See some pics below:
    Hi,
    I have same machine type and need to retrofit it but i do not have the wiring for it, could you provide it
    Sting

  17. #37
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by sting007 View Post
    Hi,
    I have same machine type and need to retrofit it but i do not have the wiring for it, could you provide it
    Sting
    I'll see what I can do. I will have to scan the manual.

    Where are you located BTW and what year is your machine? Does it have rs485 relay modules or not?

  18. #38
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    Re: Biesse Rover 346 retrofit

    I am using the spindle from a Biesse Rover on a DIY build.

    I'd also seriously appreciate any documentation, but in my case, specifically about the spindle wiring. I still haven't figured out what the pins are for and what the working pressures for the tool change, which port does what, etc.

    Attachment 379240

    Attachment 379242

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