[nitewatchman]

Not yet tried the direct wires (pain to get that back alan off the motor to reach its electrical box with my custom enclosure (pics will follow soon in a separate post)

I have learned that it is easier to pull the motor with the motor base attached. Remove the Clamp Handle Screw and the Pivot Bolt and it will lift out. I never could get to the back Allen Screw.

gary

[igrau]

not a problem at all - super helpful ideas

So you think its as simple as plugging it in and powering on to reprogram on the newer unlocked machines?

As I typed this, am thinking that you were on to something, why would I see the words code blinking, your usage of the word VFD unlocked makes me think mine is locked and I have to use that code 129 to unlock it (hope its 129) - got to grab some grub and then I can try it

Thanks and sorry to eat up so much of your time

[igrau]

Hi Nitewatchman

You are right, its not a switch its a physical plug, am pretty sure we have the same kit https://www.tormach.com/store/index....67&portrelay=1

agree with what you have said, yes would have thought I would see something unique on one of the 3 lines but they all mirror each other fairly closely and numbers seem right.

I need to better understand your experiment and will try - need to join the fan for a late lunch first - thanks

[igrau]

cool will try that

I use a Hex socket on a universal but it tends to jam under the connector box edge and takes a while to unjam

[igrau]

just saw this in the VFD manual, thought some might want to to know, but I am not confident enough to hot swap.

Also seems it has to be instructed to read the "smartstick"

Attachment 345904

page 148

[tmarks11]

If it where to be switched at the wrong time you will damage the VFD, there are special switches that can do this, but not at the small machine Hobby level... They should never have done this most VFD Drive Manufacturers do not recommend to do this as per snip attached

thanks for the info, unfortunately the design in the 1100 is essentially doing the don't do items on both sides

It would be impossible to "pull the plug" under load (if someone was stupid enough to do this... we aren't talking about operating a coffee pot here), since to get to it, you have to open the spindle door, which would turn the VFD off. Or you have to stand on a step ladder and reach over the top of the spindle door.

There are quite a few people who rig up their mill (and lathe) controls between the VFD and the motor, and have operated for hundreds of hours this way (in violation of manufacturer's warnings), and have not smoked a VFD. I wouldn't recommend it, but these things are very robust.

I doubt you "fried" your VFD or your motor. I just think you have a wiring problem.

The load meter shouldn't have affected your VFD at all, since it is just a 0-10V panel meter reading from two contacts that the VFD is programmed to provide percent load output in a 0-10V signal. No significant current passing through that.

[igrau]

thanks @tmarks, yes I agree its not possible to do but the HW is basically wired like that schematic (hence me adding the granted... comment right after as the access requires the door to open and that causes the c2 contractor to open and kill power to the VFD

Agree the load meter was very unlikely, but I disconnected it anyway - no change.
good point of the lathe too, way too many users (lathe, high speed spindle, rapid turn) doing this for far too long.

Currently suspecting the VFD programming even thought it worked fine before the upgrades and the upgrades did not reprogram anything but the VFD menu is not unlocked by default so that seems to be different than expected. FYI: am not the first owner of this machine, I bought it just before it was a year old, and has worked great for me until now. Yup hoping and suspecting its not fried. Not seeing how it could be the wiring but that is the thing that I changed so I have no choice but to rewire it and rule that out.

Thanks,
E1

[igrau]

SOLVED - sort of

There is no issue with the VFD as a few of you suspected. I wired it directly as @wvines suggested and every thing works.

have brought in another multi meter and at the motor from each of the 3 lines to GND, I see open not the 170ish Kohms I read when measuring at the VFD. I can't find any wire responsible for the high current, all connections are super cleaning there are no shorts that I can measure on the wires directly. Will keep digging but at least its working so its a wiring issue that is not showing up when I ohm things out. I doubt its sensitive to impedance issues, but who knows how the VFD pretests?

Many thanks to all for the super help!!!!

Also still need to figure out why my VFD is locked and its not the tormach code I can't get it to read the smartstick till I figure out this code.

I am not the first owner of this machine so am wondering if it was changed but why - or maybe I am just felt out not entering it right (who knows been a crazy day)

Have a great weekend, will put another post when i find the root cause

[igrau]

Ok here is the final update with root cause, can't explain some of the readings to GND all matching at about 170k ohms, but it should actually be open. Anyway when I removed the short cable with the nice 4 pin plug on one end and the motor on the other, I get open loop to GND from each of the 3 lines. Then I ohmed out the cable alone and with the plug end, on the wire's motor connection end, the black and red were open loop to GND, but the white had 200ish kohms!

I also put 3 patch cables from the box that sits on the door switch box to the motor lines to replace the above Tormach patch cable and motor worked, so its definitely that short cable.

What a pain 1 night and 1 full day, mislead by similar readings on all lines to GND making it look like it was something else, still can't explain the 3 readings being the same - especially since I checked them twice this morning - motor was connected but not the VFD!

Thanks again to the great community

[mactec54]

igaru

As I said in my post that it was most likely to do with the wiring, as that is all that you had changed

What is the brand name of the VFD on your machine, it's just ( 1 ) parameter to unlock it

The smartsticks are common, and a good way to backup the VFD's Parameters, or in your case to have ( 2 ) of them with the two different motor profiles on, so you can change over each motor quickly

It's all still not very well engineered how they have done this, there are other ways to do this that don't compromise anything, which can happen with this setup

[igrau]

hi @maxtec54,

yup you were right, i wasted too much time with misleading readings that i can't explain telling me it can't be the wires.

Emerson is the brand for my VFD

Agreed while scanning the manual I noticed it seems to have an options for a second motor profile is that what you are thinking for a more efficient method or just having the programming be transferred via the control board and modbus - I suspect the latter to support more than 2 motor options - maybe in series 4 .

Another quick question - does the spindle load go to the middle of the green with zero load (not even a belt in my case) at 250 and 2000 RPMs? I find that very strange but it the first readings I get from eh spindle load meter

This is what I did to try reprogram the VFD - and in the end i get the code 170.4 not 170.3


A) @ full off
B) disconnect B4 from VFD
C) insert smart stick (my system lets it in fairly easy, firmer push does not go deeper - contacts go in a few mm but seem to align with where I observe the outer contacts.
D) power up and out of reset, manual start/stop to get VFD powered up
E) Momentarily (1 second or less) press the M button on the drive until the left digits flash a 2 digit code, usually 01. <-- yup got this
NOTE: If during the procedure you find that the left side digits are flashing when the right side digits should be, or the right side digits are flashing when the left side digits should be, momentarily press the M button to switch to the proper side digits.
F) Use the up arrow ▲ to increase the numerical value of the left digits to 10.
G) Press the M button to cause the right side values of the display to flash.
H) Press the or down arrow ▼ until the right digits on the display read L2.
I) Press the M button to store the selection and cause the left side digits to flash.
J) Use the up arrow ▲ to increase the numerical value of the left digits to 28.
K) Press the M button to cause the right side values of the display to flash
L) At this point you will see CodE flash on the right. <-- yup saw this
M) Use the up arrow ▲ or down arrow ▼ to change the numerical value of the right digits to 129.
N) Press the M button to accept the code. <-- no error that I could detect
O) Presstheup▲ordownarrow▼untiltherightdigitsonthedis playrEAd.
P) Momentarily press the M button to store the selection and cause the left side digits to flash and cause the right sidedigitstodisplayno. Theremaybeashortpauseasthedrivedownloadsthe
program from the stick. <-- Did not observe any pause
Q) Use the down arrow ▼ to decrease the numerical value of the left digits to 10
R) Press the M button to cause the right side values of the display to flash.
S) Press the up ▲ or down▼ arrow until the right digits on the display read LoC.
T) Press the M button to store the selection and cause the left side digits to flash.
U) Press the up ▲ or down▼ arrow until the left digits on the display read 02.
V) The right side display should now read 170.3 (this value only applies to PCNC 1100 owners). This is an indicator that the program downloaded correctly. Note; if 170.0 is indicated, than the program did not load properly. Power down the drive and re-start with step A). If 60.0 or any other code is
shown, than please contact Tormach support for further assistance. <-- I get 170.4 not 170.4 have tried 3 times with same result

Any ideas what I am doing wrong, failing to get a clue from the manual as a search does not show a 170.? code

thanks

[tmarks11]

wow, that is a pain in the neck. Will that be required every time, or now that you have unlocked it will it be easier?

[igrau]

i think it will be simply insert and go but i need to unlock it first so can't be sure, apparently at some point in time it was locked but not in newer machines. manual infers its plug and play -sorry take all this with a grain of salt its new to me.

[wvines]

The response 170.4 indicates that you loaded configuration version 4. The instructions are obsolete.

That's a painful procedure but I think it's not necessary except for older machines that were produced before the load meter was added to the lineup. The VFDs now come preconfigured for the load meter and to boot from the memory stick if it's installed.

[igrau]

@Wvines

That is the best news I have heard today - great so that tells me it worked and am ready to support rapid turn when it comes in with just a simple smartstick swap

Does a power meter at half the green zone sound right for no load and by that I man not even the belt is connected - Seems high but am new to the load meter.

Thanks again

[mactec54]

i think it will be simply insert and go but i need to unlock it first so can't be sure, apparently at some point in time it was locked but not in newer machines. manual infers its plug and play -sorry take all this with a grain of salt its new to me.

I'm sure they may have software that you can setup on your computer to monitor and set the Parameters, most major manufactures like this do, so this would be your first thing to do, would be to get the VFD Drive Software and cable for your computer

Tormach should of had the Parameters already on your smartstick

Need to know the series and model # different VFD's have different unlocking, but your Emerson looks like this snip then this will unlock it, this is more complicated than most, but it is to keep out unauthorized Parameter changes, this may not match your VFD, as I don't have your Drive Spec's

[wvines]

@Wvines
Does a power meter at half the green zone sound right for no load and by that I man not even the belt is connected - Seems high but am new to the load meter.

Just checked. Mine jumps into the red when starting the spindle and then settles into the green. At max speed it's about a quarter of the way from the bottom. It's goes higher (weird, huh?) as the spindle speed drops and is roughly a third of the way into the green at the lowest speed. You can adjust the zero-point with the screw on the face of the meter.

I use it as a crude confirmation of how hard the motor is working. I rarely look at it unless I'm concerned about how a cut is sounding.

[nitewatchman]

@Wvines

That is the best news I have heard today - great so that tells me it worked and am ready to support rapid turn when it comes in with just a simple smartstick swap

Does a power meter at half the green zone sound right for no load and by that I man not even the belt is connected - Seems high but am new to the load meter.

Thanks again

I will confirm at least in the case of the High Speed Spindle the motor swap is plug and play. You power down the VFD swap the dongles and bot the VFD back up and you are ready to go.

The horsepower meter calibration sounds off. My machine running at no load displaces the needle maybe 20% of the green scale. I think that this is also pretty close to an accurate reading. We a 5/8" 3 flute carbide endmill to plunge bore a hole in casting, a bit like the old core drill routine. This cutter can take the Tormach to task depending on the condition of the cored hole. Machine will run in the green all day long, in the yellow the spindle starts bogging down, consistently in the red the machine will stall.

gary

[igrau]

Thanks @wvines for checking, did not test out other RPMs and won't have access for a few days, agree that sounds strange but as you say its just a representation

thanks

[igrau]

Thanks a bunch @nitewatchman, your readings are more along the lines of the expected behavior and not like mine, will ping Tormach tech support about this. Hard to see how the load meter could be hooked up wrong, just 2 wired it to the VFD, especially if my meters behavior matches that of @wvines (will have to check that out in a few days)

many thanks