The NEC uses both of these words throughout but the NEC does not use these words interchangeably, they use them as two completly different words with different meanings.
The NEC uses both of these words throughout but the NEC does not use these words interchangeably, they use them as two completly different words with different meanings.
I really was just trying to sort it out for readers overlooking this thread so they do not make mistakes. I have read a number of threads on cnczone where they have done just that and fried their VFDs. If anyone is going to read this hopefully they take away that they cannot use Neatral as ground or they will be in violation of the NEC. If my memory serves me well it was in 2005 when this became a code violation.
Neutral Wire Facts and Mythology | EE Times
This has a great breakdown for anyone reading this who wants to understand the myths surrounding the Neutral wire.
Plucked from the article:
"In North America, much of the confusion regarding grounding has its roots in the National Electrical Code of the United States. In the Code, the receptacle ground connection is referred to as the "Grounding" conductor while the neutral connection is referred to as the "Grounded" conductor. The subtle difference between "ing" and "ed" has led many to erroneously interchange these terms in the literature."
One of the confusing issues is the wording used in different part of the world.
When I practiced in the UK the you ran an Earth wire, not a ground.
Also not only is Ground used indiscriminately from electronic circuit common terminal, but the earth ground symbol is also often (mis)used in electronic circuitry instead of the Chassis or Common symbols.
If one wants defining explanation of Earth Grounding they should pick up the book by Eustace Soares "Soares Book On Grounding" which is used by NEC/CEC and other international bodies
There is a very enlightening video lecture by Dr Bruce Archambault on the subject.
Also his cartoon.
Al.
.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Yep that is why i was posting that grounded ground grounding cannot be used interchangably because they do not mean the same thing. Another issue I see frequently is people not understanding the difference between grounding and bonding. The second image you posted there causes even more confusion, I have always known the earth ground symbol to represent ground but recently i have seen articles and even some schematic software using the commom ground symbol to represent ground calling the earth ground something different entirely.
You will see items sold here such as BOB's etc and/or a schematic posted and they all use the earth ground symbol as a power Common, regardless if it is non-earthed.
The book highly praised by many, The Art Of Electronics commit the offense all the way through.
The earth ground symbol I show was established by the JIC in the '50's.
Also there is a paper published by Siemens on the importance of equi-potential bonding in electrical enclosures etc.
It used to be available on their web site until they changed the site.
It is available by request in PDF.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
2 More Videos from Mike on Grounding
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...9665&FORM=VIRE
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...=0&FORM=VDFSRV
Mactec54
Thanks so much for this information. How did you wire the 220v input voltage. I have a standard 220vac US circuit to connect with a red (hot line), black (hot line), white (neutral). What connection points should I connect them to?
Thank you
See Step 1 in the first post. Only use the red and the black, one to "R", and one to "T".
You also should have a ground wire, which also needs to be connected.
Gerry
UCCNC 2017 Screenset
http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html
Mach3 2010 Screenset
http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html
JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html
(Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
If you had read this thread correctly you would see that you can NOT use a White Neutral Wire with a 240V NA supply, it can be 2 Black or 1 Red and 1 Black Plus a Green Wire for Ground /Earth
If you have a White wire in your 240v supply you would also have a Ground this could be a bare Copper wire, you can not use the White wire, when you find the Ground wire you can join a Green wire to it, make sure this is bonded together very well
Mactec54
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
I brought out my multi meter and checked my 2.2kw water cooled spindle pin 4 for continuity against the metal chassis of the spindle and there was no connection, so pin 4 (on my spindle) does nothing. Probably wise to assume your spindle may not be grounded by wiring to pin 4.
There is a YT video from what looks like an HY manufacturer which at 2:08 states "we usually don't connect earth" when referring to the spindle. Likely why pin 4 is disconnected. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdn_KANxff4
That's because in China they do not have to use an Earth / Ground connection, anywhere else in the world you have too, so the unconnected 4th pin you have to connect it, you do this by taking the top off the spindle motor if it has a metal top, this is quite easy to do, the good quality Chinese Spindles have the Pin 4 connected as per photo's below
Mactec54
Thanks mactec! Mine has a black top with the 4 pin connector. Is the black top more difficult to remove (I.e. sealed)?
Is it aluminum or plastic, if it is plastic you have to attach the Ground / Earth wire a different way and don't need to remove the end cap, some use a sealant on them so it may take a little persuading to get it off, there are 2 Orings that need to be sealed, that's the only part you have to be concerned with when you reassemble it, blow the water out before you disassemble it, just use low air pressure
Mactec54
I had a 4kw hunayang hooked up for about 10 months, only used occasionally on a 5hp planer, and it popped recently, loud pop and no longer works. Pics of my hook up below.
Ground (green) to ground on VFD and power to R and S.
UVW from motor to VFD.
Solid copper ground wire from mounting plate on planer to ground terminal on VFD.
Is that all correct? From my reading, the power from wall (220v) can go to R & T?
I also would like to know how to wire a switch of some sort as I have one 220v plug in my garage, the dryer outlet, and it gets shared with the dryer, sawstop, jointer, and planer with vfd. I plug in the vfd, flip the breaker, let the VFD boot up, then use the run and stop buttons to turn the planer on.
I read I can wire a switch of some sort to turn the VFD on and off, preventing some power surging to the VFD or another way to turn the planer on and off instead of from the VFD itself. Any help would be great.
Hi Loren, Is there much difference form these setting, to setting up a 3KW spindle?
Mike
Does anyone post on here I would like some help please.
Mike
Hi, after reading so many frustrating ( and confusing comments ), I and I'm sure many other people simply aren't sure about connections. Here in the uk we have 240v single phase, with brown live, blue neutral and gren/yellow earth (ground). To make matters worse there are several grounding methods. Our house was re-wired as p.m.e, and as such the incoming ground and neutral wires are joined where they enter the house. Looking at the schematic for the vfd, the mains input 2 or three phase goes through a bridge rectifier. So I assume live goes to R neutral to S or T, and earth to earth/ground. It is very confusing to here that you have two lives and ground, surely this would not work into a bridge rectifier. But hey, after reading all the different supply types and voltages I'm amazed anything but three phase works.
Regards john
That is the same Grounding system as is in NA, that you have at the Mains point of entry, you will find that in your sub box Ground and Neutral are separate
Your R should always be Hot / live connection Natural connects to T and Ground / Earth to the Ground Terminal in your case NA has split Phase supply 2 Hot wires which are 180 degrees apart, each Hot wire is only 120v for residential supply so with 2 wires at 120v =240 they take turns at being the return wire ( Neutral )
Mactec54