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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    290

    Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Hi folks!

    I'm finally getting a build going again!

    My first build, some 8 years ago, was an MDF construction. While I learned a lot from that project, it was fraught with weaknesses and impractical solutions.

    My second build was for my employer and considerably more high-end. I have been using that router for my personal projects for the last few years, and have developed a love/hate relationship with it (mainly hate).

    In addition to my full-time job, I also run a single person company as an industrial designer and luthier. I decided I wanted to add CNC capabilities to my home shop again and this time I wanted a machine that would be able to machine everything from soft woods to steel.

    So here is the machine in bullet-points:

    * Welded steel frame. Maximum weight and rigidity
    * Enclosure with dust extraction
    * Working envelope of 1000x500x150mm
    * HIWIN 20/25mm linear rails
    * 16x5 Ballscrews
    * Nema34 1600oz/in stepper motors for X and Y
    * UC300ETH controller card
    * UCCNC software
    * Spindle still undecided, but I am using a Kress1050 until I make a final decision.

    I'll add more info as I go. I am already well into the welding, but I need to sort through pics and videos before I can post.

    Attachment 348476

    Attachment 348474
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    1899

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Looks good, but if you plan on milling steel you must design it for lubrication also, and you must make the bed so that the cutting fluid can flow without leaking to the floor. Also, design it from the start with the right spindle in mind. Steel requires low rpm and high torque, MDF, plastic and aluminum can be milled with high rpm as well. So, either make the Z able to take two different spindles or make it somehow universal, but MUCH more rigid and larger than the Kress requires.

    Otherwise I like the idea of fixed gantry. It is how I designed my CNC as well, and the reason for that was simple... It is easier to make a more robust machine than the more sexier looking moving gantry allows. I am happily milling aluminum as well as delrin with very good results today. Not tested steel but because I don't use lubricants I can not mill steel.

    Another reason why I like fixed gantry is that it is much easier to encapsulate the machine to protect the surroundings from flying debris and dust. I like the way you designed the protection. I chose a simpler solution, and also not covering the top, only the sides. In my opinion protection is necessary in these type of machines. I have had several broken bits and when they break they become dangerous projectiles. Also all the chips are kept inside the machine, so the room where I am using mine is easily kept clean.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    1600oz motors and 5mm pitch screws will result in an incredibly slow machine, as those motors won't spin very fast. You'd be much better off with 1610 or 2010 screws, and low inductance 600oz motors.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    290

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Thanks

    When I say "machine steel" it will more likely be jobs like engraving sheet metal and things like that. I have a manual mill for heavier metal work.

    In the renderings I have an MDF spoilboard, but this will be attached to a 10mm thick aluminum tooling plate that I will use when using coolant.

    The bottom will be enclosed and connected to the dust extraction.

    Attachment 348484

    All coolant use will be mist, so there won't be large quantities of liquid. I'm pretty sure 90% of the work I do on this machine will be wood or plastic.

    I'm considering putting this Electrospindel on it if I can purchase it from work.
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  5. #5
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    Apr 2009
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    290

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    1600oz motors and 5mm pitch screws will result in an incredibly slow machine, as those motors won't spin very fast. You'd be much better off with 1610 or 2010 screws, and low inductance 600oz motors.
    I will eventually go for servos, but I had these motors available so they will have to do for now. If I can get 5-6000mm/m I can live with that for a while.
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  6. #6
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Mocking up the electronics

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  7. #7
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Steel cut

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  8. #8
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    Apr 2009
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Welding started

    Attachment 348490

    Using my table saw as welding jig

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    640

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Wow...I like the design. Will be watching this. How much distortion (correct word?) will the welding itself introduce to the structure and how will you make sure things are square as it is built?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fretman_2 View Post
    Wow...I like the design. Will be watching this. How much distortion (correct word?) will the welding itself introduce to the structure and how will you make sure things are square as it is built?
    Thanks 😊

    The base will be welded directly as it is not super critical. There are some tricks to getting it pretty square even without elaborate weldibg jigs though.
    All the tubes that carry the linear rails as well as the gantry side plates will initially be bolted together until I get everything aligned properly. Then they will be tacked together, but the bolts will be providing the majority of the clamping force.
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  11. #11
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    I have to mention that a big inspiration for chosing this configuration was This Old Tony's fantastic build and video series on YouTube.
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    640

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Got a link to that build?? Never mind...I found it. I remember looking at those videos before I built my machine. I don't have any welding equipment or skills...I may work on that!

    Link to the build referenced by mcentric...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9UA9ZRFwWU

    Quote Originally Posted by mcentric View Post
    I have to mention that a big inspiration for chosing this configuration was This Old Tony's fantastic build and video series on YouTube.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    711

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Quote Originally Posted by mcentric View Post
    I will eventually go for servos, but I had these motors available so they will have to do for now. If I can get 5-6000mm/m I can live with that for a while.
    I have no data to back it up, but I think 1000rpm is a big stretch for those motors. I don't know what drivers you will use, but I would bet on 300 rpm reliably. That would give you 1500 mm/min.

    If you will eventually use servos with relatively high resolution encoders, it would be much better to use 10-20mm lead screws, with a belt reduction. That way you will have the positioning resolution, and will be able to use the full motor power, while staying inside a reasonable max rpm of the screw.

  14. #14
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    Apr 2009
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    290

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Quote Originally Posted by fretman_2 View Post
    Got a link to that build?? Never mind...I found it. I remember looking at those videos before I built my machine. I don't have any welding equipment or skills...I may work on that!

    Link to the build referenced by mcentric...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9UA9ZRFwWU
    Here is his build thread here on cnczone as well
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...ter-build.html
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  15. #15
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_3301 View Post
    I have no data to back it up, but I think 1000rpm is a big stretch for those motors. I don't know what drivers you will use, but I would bet on 300 rpm reliably. That would give you 1500 mm/min.

    If you will eventually use servos with relatively high resolution encoders, it would be much better to use 10-20mm lead screws, with a belt reduction. That way you will have the positioning resolution, and will be able to use the full motor power, while staying inside a reasonable max rpm of the screw.
    Not really sure where you are getting those numbers, but here is my experience with NEMA34 motors.

    My last build used two 9Nm N34 steppers to drive the X axis. They're powering belt driven linear rails through 10:1 reduction gearboxes giving 18mm linear travel pr. rotation of the stepper. As you can see in the video below at approx 48 seconds I am rapiding comfortably at 23.300mm/min. That means almost 1300RPM at the stepper. Yes, I know, they are slightly "lighter" than my 1600oz/in (12Nm) steppers, and as such probably able to run at slightly higher RPM. I'm also aware that there are two of them to share the load. Still, they are moving the gantry at a pitch of 18mm/rev which requires considerably more torque than the 5mm of my ballscrew.



    Below is a video that I just took to show my current stepper set-up. The stepper is obviously under no load, but still running easily at 1500RPM. It didn't start stalling before around 1750RPM. Also in the video for comparison is my mill's spindle running at 1500RPM (well... close enough ) Of course it will all depend on the mass of my moving table, but I don't have huge concerns about this motor not being able to run at 1000RPM. The acceleration on the other hand will be more interesting to see.



    I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if this thing only crawls along, but that will also just expedite my servo purchase
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    What drives are you using, and what voltage?
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  17. #17
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    Apr 2009
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    290

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    The base is getting closer to finished!

    Once finished welded, it will be bolted to the floor and meticulously leveled before I start construction of the more critical parts.

    Attachment 348536
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  18. #18
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    What drives are you using, and what voltage?
    DM860A

    60V, 5.8A power supply
    stepperdriver set to 3.5A RMS


    Btw, I am definitely getting your UCCNC screenset! been using the 2010 screenset for years and I love it
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  19. #19
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    Apr 2009
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    290

    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    The base is done. A little bit of welding is left, but it is solid enough to start building on.

    Attachment 348704

    Next I need to drill holes in the concrete for the expansion bolts. The concrete has a lot of large gravel in it, so I'll be drilling with a diamond core bit since I'm afraid a regular masonry bit would drift too much.

    Attachment 348708

    The main reason for bolting the base to the floor is to keep it absolutely rigid and level while I construct the rest of the machine. If I leave it bolted or put it on rubber feet is still undecided.

    The last SolidWorks calculations puts the router at about 350kg. All the tubes will be filled with sand to reduce vibrations and resonance. If I can get it closer to 400kg I'd be happier
    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

  20. #20
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    Re: Lessons in overkill! Welded steel, fixed gantry router

    Bolted and leveled

    Attachment 348880
    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Hey! It's that guy you are!" - Phillip J. Fry

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