[JFettig]

Are there any other options to run a brushed indexer on a Brushless machine such as installing a brushed drive or diy solution?
I found this on the Haas parts page but it's hard to say if it's right or not. 93-8141A
Local HFO wants to sell me the 4AXCB box at $1200. I'd like to have a cheaper option. I'm half tempted to convert the indexer to Brushless with an eBay motors.

[Al_The_Man]

Some BLDC drives will also run brushed motors, such as A-M-C, and others etc.
You just set the commutation to 60° instead of 120°.
Al.

[JFettig]

Some BLDC drives will also run brushed motors, such as A-M-C, and others etc.
You just set the commutation to 60° instead of 120°.
Al.

Haas machine specifically with Haas rotary.

I found the right Brushless motor for my rotary but the cable set alone from Haas is $500.

[DruMor]

You didn't say what year the machine is that you are wanting to put the brush type rotary in, but from what service techs have told me, even with a converter box a brush rotary will not work with a next gen control. We have a brush type HRT310 that we wanted to use in our EC-1600 and when it was being installed the service guys said no way, no how will it work. It was a good reason to get a brushless HRT450 I do run a brushed HRT210 in a 2014 VF-2SS with a converter box, but had to jump thru hoops to make it work. I spent a couple hours on the phone and finally got someone to work with me (and not just say "too bad, it won't work", which the first few people I talked to said) and we changed a bunch of parameters it works great. Getting that HRT210 to work in the 2014 machine also required me to make an "adaptor kit" to move the rotary (and therefore the tailstock) back 1" because apparently sometime between 1999 and 2014 they moved the sheet metal on a VF-2 back and the motor end of the rotary unit would hit the front of the enclosure.

[JFettig]

DruMor,

My VF-4SS is 2003, I don't see it being an issue as far as the control. I haven't looked at the parameters that need to be changed yet - I'll dig into that prior to ordering the box. I got the HA5C indexer with the control box for next to nothing but I don't want to have to mess with the control box.

Any hoops in particular that you had to jump through?

Thanks,
Jon

[eaglemike]

Some of the older machines used brushless servo's with brushed 4th axis. You might double check just to be sure. I've converted my 1998 VF2 to brushless 4th. I might still have the old cables. Don't know if this would help or not.

[DruMor]

A 2003 machine I am going to guess will be plug and play. I just checked our 2008 VF-4, and where you select a rotary in the settings page, you can select either a brush or brushless HA5C and I assume your 2003 will be similar. I have ran a HRT210 and HRT310 brush type on this machine and the only thing I had to change was rotation direction to match already written programs.

The 2014 machine is the one that gave fits. The hoops to jump thru were the having person after person at Haas tell me "no it won't work, talk to this guy", like they thought we were just going to up and buy a new rotary. Finally, one guy worked with me until we got it to work. There was a lot of "try this, did it work". Finally, he emailed several pages where I had to go in and take an preloaded rotary profile and changed over half of the parameters in that profile and then it would work. Then once we got the rotary to work, we discovered that when you put the rotary table key in the center slot, that you could not close the door. I ended up making 2 steel plates that keyed to the table, then had a new keyway moved 1.000" back to move the rotary and the tailstock back enough to clear the door. The corner of the motor box will touch the door when it finds the home switch on boot up, so maybe I should have moved the rotary back a hair more . And to make it all the more frustrating, I had a pile of work for this machine that was waiting for it when it was delivered, which was 2 weeks late because the day before the original delivery date we got a bunch of snow and the equipment movers didn't want to move our whole shop across a snowy/icy parking lot (we were moving into a new building next door as part of getting this machine)

[gizmo_454]

Hello JFettig,

I have a 2002 VF2SS in our shop that has brushless drives and was setup with some sort of converter to make the 4th axis brushed. We bought a new set of cables to plug in, in the control cabinet, that took the converter out of the loop, and replaced the brush type plugs on the cabinet with brushless plugs. I will look into what all is left of that setup and get back to you here. I should have everything, as I have a bad habit of not throwing anything out!

It should be noted that I have no idea whether or not it works, as we only have brushless rotaries here. But, the machine was purchased by us, directly from Haas. And the machine was used in their engineering department for years before being sold to us. So, I am going to ASSume that it worked. Again, I will look into this, probably after hours tonight, and re-post in the morning...

Mike

[JFettig]

Awesome Mike! Let me know if you have it, I'd be more than happy to buy that from you!

[gizmo_454]

Everything appears to be there, as far as I can see and remember. I will email you shortly...

Mike

[JFettig]

Huge thanks to gizmo_454

I never see any evidence of the in cabinet Brush to Brushless converter so here it is.
Inductor assembly is 32-5304B $295
Inductors can be had separately 64-1400A $70

I don't know what's included with the "assembly", I can pull numbers from cables if needed. My local HFO acted like Haas doesn't make these parts anymore, hard to say.

Inductor assy:


17 pin connector - replaces brushless encoder connector - no cables don't reach to leave both installed.


Goes to P9 on Mocon board - replaces the encoder cable for the brushless assy


Phase A and Phase C on A axis brushless amp
(Note - TC amp and A-axis AMP swapped places by previous owner because the TC amp blew, I had it repaired and left it mixed for now)


Brake connector P46 on IO board


Overall its a very simple install.

[JFettig]

I got Setting 30 changed, (E-stop and set HA5C), 4th axis hooked up but when I go to home it out, it spins continuously(CCW, on the right side of the table). It would home out with the indexer box so I'm not sure what's up. Any ideas?

ETA
Oldschool black Haas indexers use Z channel only to home. Got that taken care of, now I have to figure out how to fix the 142 error.

[gizmo_454]

Glad to see you got everything in the machine! I did a double take on the pics, as it looks just as it did in my machine!

As to homing, I am wondering if it is a parameter problem, a bad connection at the plug, or possibly a broken wire in one of the looms I sent with the inductor assembly. I would lean more towards parameters, but hopefully someone else can help further.

You may want to contact Haas directly to see if someone there may be able to help with the parameter side of things. I would think they would know what the parameters should be for your indexer.

At least we know it works, sort of! LOL

[JFettig]

I should have followed up, it turns out I have a S5C rotary, not HA5C, putting in the right parameters for that took care of everything

S5C homes to an index pulse on the motor, which is the "Z Channel" so I had to change the homing to "Z Channel only" The downside to that is it homes with every rotation of the motor so it won't necessarily home out correctly - I'll have to figure out how to set it up such that the end of the program rotation will home out to the correct pulse so when I start up the next day its good to go.

Thanks again!

[Dennis_vavilov]

Hello JFettig
We just receive our brushed HRT210 table but we have brushless setup on Haas TM1. We have brushless driver amp(red one) for A axis.
So as I understood we can connect it with two options:
1. Buy a converter 4AXCB but it takes 1250$
2. Buy an Inductor assembly is 32-5304B $295 and some harness?
Is it correct???
Can give full list of what is necessary to buy?

[JFettig]

I think the transformer looking piece(I think this is the actual inductor) is sold separately, not 100% sure. I don't think these are available anymore.

[countryguy]

I recently bought the 4th axis kit which will come w/ the inductor Xformer device and more importantly all the cables you'll need to go from the I/O board to the Xformer board, and to the round brushless connector on the side cab. IT actually came with 3 different 4th axis brusless connectors depending on the Haas version you have. It will have the full inductor assy. and all the cables you need. For $400 it seemed well worth it for me.

93-4303 ($395) 4th drive pre-wire kit (with inductor) I did buy just an Inductor as well for $70. Use the PN on the top sticker. It only comes w/ the inductor and none of the cables you need to wire it in. It's a spare part only.

I have the full post here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas-m...ml#post2100114