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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    402

    MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    My little 770 is only 3 years old, and it's already giving me problems?
    What the hell!!!?
    First, the gibs were loose, so I tackled that issue a couple of weeks ago. Snugged-up X and Z.
    Then the computer blacked-out last week. Power supply burp. I ran it plugged directly into the wall outlet. Everything ran ok that way.
    Now, Today, I tried running it with the computer plugged back into the panel outlet, and it started losing steps in Z!!
    AAAGGHHH!!!
    Are my Z gibs too tight, thus causing the lost Z steps?
    Or is there some issue with the funky power supply, outlet issue?
    This isn't making me very happy with a barely 3 year old machine.
    Damn.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    192

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Do you run the machine a lot? 3 years sounds like a long run before needing some attention, like to the gibbs as you described. Hopefully it is just a tight gibb.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    402

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    No, i don't run it alot. Maybe 40 hours a month average.
    I'll try loosening the gib tomorrow. And plugging the computer back into the wall outlet.
    Trial & error I guess.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    218

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Call Tormach - their support is great.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    106

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Some more things to try:
    - Use the shortest possible parallel cables
    - Use filtered, shielded, and grounded cables (sometimes called 'networked' cables). Even on a 3' cable..
    - Use the shortest possible USB cables (if you're using USB)
    - Check the oil line to the Z axis, many people have reported that it does not deliver enough lubrication. Simplest fix is to install a check valve to keep the oil from siphoning back down to the X/Y ways.

    I have to run my 770 on two different circuits; one for the machine, and one for the computer. They're pulled from separate taps on the electrical panel.
    --Bryan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    477

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    I suggest starting with the simplest thing first. I had Z problems once and it was the traced to the parallel cable.

    Try, with the power off, removing and reseating the cables in the electrical panel including the ribbon cables on the controller and drives. Fixed my issues, I do this as a matter of maintenance every six months or so.

    gary

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    610

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    It's never fun to have to troubleshoot your machine when you are not able to use it all that much. Good suggestions so far. Tormach tech support will help shoot you straight too. If you go through the steps indicated by others and the problem replicates without any cutting load start thinking driver or wiring to the stepper itself. I lost 3 drivers in a week on my 770 a couple of weeks after I upgraded it to PathPilot. They were probably near death anyhow, but the older style drivers did not handle abrupt changes to the MaxVelocity slider by the user. Another weird one is that the fast blow fuses can give you odd fits at times too. Many years ago I used to believe that either a fuse was simply good or bad with failures being obvious to spot. After several years of troubleshooting equipment and automotive applications I have found that they are not so orthogonal in nature :-). Good luck man and I hope that you get to sling chips again, accurately, soon.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2512

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Quote Originally Posted by RussMachine View Post
    I'll try loosening the gib tomorrow. And plugging the computer back into the wall outlet.
    Trial & error I guess.
    Perhaps you should have tried this before posting, unbelievable! I sometimes wonder how some of you guys manage to get out of bed in the morning.

    Phil

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1424

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Quote Originally Posted by philbur View Post
    Perhaps you should have tried this before posting, unbelievable! I sometimes wonder how some of you guys manage to get out of bed in the morning.

    Phil
    Completely uncalled for.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    610

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Quote Originally Posted by philbur View Post
    Perhaps you should have tried this before posting, unbelievable! I sometimes wonder how some of you guys manage to get out of bed in the morning.

    Phil
    There are days I want to climb to the third story and scream out the window about technical issues, but I am fortunate to have many outlets for this kind of emotion. This forum can sometimes serve as that as far as I know. Everyone needs to vent sometimes. This is especially true when the apparently random negative events just seem to pile on, and you are working past a state of mental/physical exhaustion. Decorum in our present world is about as thin as the skin on a dehydrating onion. Staying forward focused at all times is a wonderful goal, but realistically we are all going to sound off about some issue. I truly worry about those that have no appreciable form of venting!

    It really doesn't bother me to read posts like the OP has made. I'll usually chime in and offer some form of encouragement or redirection towards a potential solution. If ever a choice is to made between mentoring versus flaming, or chastising, an individual for their approach it is difficult to comprehend why any sentient individual would choose the latter. Unless, of course, such approach poses a tangible threat or ill will towards an entity. Maybe I am missing some history or context here because this isn't Vis-a-vis? Well enough pontificating on my part for I have CAD/CAM to get done. Tomorrow will bring another day of blissful fury for us small business owners!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2512

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Quote Originally Posted by tmarks11 View Post
    Completely uncalled for.
    Maybe and then again maybe not. Having reread post #1 and #3 I think not. A degree of self reliance is a prerequisite for a home shop CNC machinist. Sometimes a wakeup call serves a useful purpose.

    Phil

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    402

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    SUCCESS!!
    I finally figured out the problem, with the help of Tech support of course.
    This morning started off bad again, I checked the gibs , they were ok.
    Plugged comp into wall. that's ok.
    Ran program... UUGGHH Tool #2 was .048" above the part again!!
    First call to Tech support resulted in tech advising me to reload Mach 3, since my comp abruptly shut off 2 weeks ago. Could be a software glitch common to Mach 3 after sudden shut-downs.
    I did that. Re-installed everything.
    Fingers crossed, ran program again.
    DAMMIT!!!!! tool #2 now .158 above part!!
    NNOOOOO!!!!!!!
    Second call to Tech support: John made the comment that Mach 3 acts wierd and sometimes looses steps during small helical moves.
    Mach 3 has problems accelerating in all 3 axis' at the same time, with such small XYZ moves . That's why the Z motor was missing steps.
    Tool #2 was helixing down into the part -.03", but doing it in a very small .025 radius.
    EUREKA!!!!
    So I deleted all of the tiny, unnecessary helical moves. Edited the program to do a straight -.03" plunge in Z, and VIOLA!! the missing step problem went away.
    WHEW!!!
    Keep this as a reminder fellas. Mach 3 doesn't like small, helical moves!

    Tech support also advised me on the perks of PathPilot.
    Me thinks it's time to upgrade, and ditch the old Mach 3.

    Thanks for letting me vent here. Even if I don't know how to get out of bed in the morning. :tired:

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1777

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Glad you got it going Russ!
    I have been using PathPilot since inception, it hasnt made any non programmed moves period......
    mike sr

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    141

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    I'd gladly take your problems over the problems that I have with this CNC lathe that I purchased and has been acting up or broke down for 165 days and it's not even a year old.

    I did buy a path pilot computer for my 1100, haven't swamped it over yet because I didn't want to go through all of my programs yet.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    980
    I had nightmares with my machine/atcuntil I got on Path Pilot


    Quote Originally Posted by RussMachine View Post
    SUCCESS!!
    I finally figured out the problem, with the help of Tech support of course.
    This morning started off bad again, I checked the gibs , they were ok.
    Plugged comp into wall. that's ok.
    Ran program... UUGGHH Tool #2 was .048" above the part again!!
    First call to Tech support resulted in tech advising me to reload Mach 3, since my comp abruptly shut off 2 weeks ago. Could be a software glitch common to Mach 3 after sudden shut-downs.
    I did that. Re-installed everything.
    Fingers crossed, ran program again.
    DAMMIT!!!!! tool #2 now .158 above part!!
    NNOOOOO!!!!!!!
    Second call to Tech support: John made the comment that Mach 3 acts wierd and sometimes looses steps during small helical moves.
    Mach 3 has problems accelerating in all 3 axis' at the same time, with such small XYZ moves . That's why the Z motor was missing steps.
    Tool #2 was helixing down into the part -.03", but doing it in a very small .025 radius.
    EUREKA!!!!
    So I deleted all of the tiny, unnecessary helical moves. Edited the program to do a straight -.03" plunge in Z, and VIOLA!! the missing step problem went away.
    WHEW!!!
    Keep this as a reminder fellas. Mach 3 doesn't like small, helical moves!

    Tech support also advised me on the perks of PathPilot.
    Me thinks it's time to upgrade, and ditch the old Mach 3.

    Thanks for letting me vent here. Even if I don't know how to get out of bed in the morning. :tired:

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    218

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Yay! Glad your back on track.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    311

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Just curious, what was your feedrate on the small helical moves? The lost steps may have been caused by exceeding the acceleration limit. On the 1100 the default setting is 15in/sec^2. This calculates out to a maximum feedrate of 36.7in/min on a .025in radius move. Any faster and Mach3's trajectory planner has to compensate, which seems to work fine on simple moves (like moving in a square tool path) but doesn't do so well with a bunch of short moves.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    610

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Outstanding! FYI- you should do the PathPilot thing with your 770 ASAP. I did my 1100 first and then followed suit on the 770 only to be rewarded with even better performance than I had anticipated. Yes the stability is amazing, but the motion control and repeatability are measurably better as well. Homing accuracy was much improved. I don't know what stepper drivers are in your 770 RussMachine, but mine is quite older than yours. I purchased it 1 month before the 770's were all relaunched as "Series III's". The older stepper drivers absolutely did not play well with heat and/or the changes to the PathPilot MaxVelocity setting during operation . I upgraded to new Leadshines after I popped 3 out of 4 and have been even more pleased with my mill. If you have a Tormach controller you can just look at the serial number and order the correct MESA card. You can be up and running within an hour of powering down....it's easy and the updates are absolutely painless.

    FYI I just ordered a new hard drive in the beginning and shelved the old one. Before I installed PathPilot I kind of verified that my cobbled peripheral hardware configuration was cool by loading Ubuntu OS. I then created a backup partition on the new drive and tested things like my keyboard, mouse and USB extension ports to ensure that they played well with the Linux world. Once that was good I figured that the Gnu would be happy, changed the BIOS to boot from CD first and let the PathPilot Install work it's magic. It's intuitive and has a future- unlike Mach3......

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    402

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    YIPPIE!!!!
    I ordered my PATHPILOT upgrade for the 770 tonight.
    Can't wait to install it and start playing with it.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    610

    Re: MORE PROBLEMS!!! Grrrrrrr....

    Nice! Just be sure to listen closely to how your machine sounds when it moves through a warm up program cycle or cold fast jogging sequence before installing your PathPilot upgrade. This alone will help you appreciate one of the fun, yet distinct, differences. Enjoy!

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