[tchapman1000]

I have used Bobcad for 10 years. In the early days it was fast and I loved the speed of how I could create parts, After V21 I went to V26 and then things went down hill as far as speed. On small files things are not so bad and for most of my parts I am making small 2d simple parts and I run the same parts all the time, not much design on a daily basis. But on a big file or a file a client sends me it can take over 20 seconds just to zoom in or move around. I have used multiple laptops over the years and several desktops, none of which were really equipped for speed nor with video cards. Today I decided to get a much better laptop to see if that solved the issue and I made sure to get massive ram and a video processor with 4g. I got a new Asus Republic of Gamers Laptop

• ASUS GL753VE-DS74 17.3" Gaming Laptop GTX 1050Ti 4GB Intel Core i7-7700HQ
  
  
  Intel® Core™ i7-7700HQ 2.8GHz (Turbo up to 3.8GHz)
  Windows 10 (64bit)
  16GB DDR4 2400MHz
  17.3" FHD (1920*1080), matte
  NVIDIA GTX1050Ti 4GB GDDR5
  "256GB SATA3 SSD
  1TB (5400 RPM)"

I called last week to deauth the old HP laptop and installed V26 and V29 on the new laptop. I have a 2meg file 2D simple lines and arcs only, nothing complex at all. To pull a horizontal dimension typically takes 15seconds to select the first point, 15 seconds to select the second point. So 20-30 average to pull a dimension.

Many other simple functions take 10 seconds to select a point or right click > OK.

It is no longer acceptable to spend this amount to time per day just to do simple tasks. I see guys with other software that blaze through designs and makes Bobcad look like a joke, one guy uses Archcad and on massive files for entire houses he is lightening fast, never a delay to pull a simple dimension. I have to find a solution even if it means moving to a new CADCAM for cnc purposes ( Camaster CNC with WinCNC).

Since I cannot spent more money or time to solve this issue with Bobcad, I would love any suggestions on a CADCAM that would be quick to get up and running on new platform, I was hoping someone with prior Bobcad experience would have suggestions on other programs.

In the mean time if anyone has suggestions on why a 2meg very simple file would take 30 seconds to pull a dim or 10 seconds to select a point to translate off of I would really appreciate any advice. Not sure how much more of a machine I'd need to actually use Bobcad. But, on the i3, i5 older laptops with NO graphics card and 8Gig ram, it was the example same problem. I feel like I just wasted $1200 today getting this blown out laptop thinking it would solve the problem.

V29 demo is no better.

Thanks for any assistance.

[tchapman1000]

I just did a test to move a small part up a few inches using sketch/enter in translate dragging from a selected point on a line. On V26 it took 1:04 minutes. On V29 3:04 minutes. It takes most of the time just to get the selector points to show up after shift>clicking on the line. It takes about 10 seconds for any rightclick > OK.

Here you can see the initial full screen shot, this is a wall unit that is 2d, about 300" x 300". No Z depth. The other images show the beginning and ending position of the small section I am needing to replace.

This is a 2meg bobcad file that is about 300"X x 300"Y area.

[BurrMan]

I called last week to deauth the old HP laptop and installed V26 and V29 on the new laptop. I have a 2meg file 2D simple lines and arcs only, nothing complex at all. To pull a horizontal dimension typically takes 15seconds to select the first point, 15 seconds to select the second point. So 20-30 average to pull a dimension.

Many other simple functions take 10 seconds to select a point or right click > OK.

Yes, this seems unacceptable for me too!

Not sure how much more of a machine I'd need to actually use Bobcad.

Those specs look pretty nice!

In the mean time if anyone has suggestions on why a 2meg very simple file would take 30 seconds to pull a dim or 10 seconds to select a point to translate off of I would really appreciate any advice.

I could, and would be willing, but..............

Since I cannot spent more money or time to solve this issue with Bobcad, I would love any suggestions on a CADCAM that would be quick to get up and running on new platform

This kindof negates any of that......

I see guys with other software that blaze through designs

I do this with BobCad!

and makes Bobcad look like a joke,

Well, that's 1 assumption you could make, but it doesn't help you out at this time...

one guy uses Archcad and on massive files for entire houses he is lightening fast, never a delay to pull a simple dimension.

But he cant pocket anything!!!

I have to find a solution even if it means moving to a new CADCAM for cnc purposes ( Camaster CNC with WinCNC). , I was hoping someone with prior Bobcad experience would have suggestions on other programs.

I wont be able to help you out with that, sorry......

I feel like I just wasted $1200 today getting this blown out laptop

A pretty righteous computer. I wouldn't say it was wasted money...

thinking it would solve the problem.

I guess that's the crux't of it.....

[tchapman1000]

I made a video of an example of what I experience. This is with V26 on the new Asus i7 described above. This is what I experience on other laptops with no graphics cards. Also I have a desktop WIn7 on my CNC with Bobcad V26 and only 2 Gig of ram, stock graphics card, and the behavior is bad on all systems. I would have thought the new laptop would solve this since it is far beyond any other computers I have run V26 on. This video shows the move pretty quick. There are cases where it can take over 60 seconds to move this part. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Does anybody else take these long times as shown in the video?


https://youtu.be/jvQe9jbYOWw

[BurrMan]

I made a video of an example of what I experience. This is with V26 on the new Asus i7 described above. This is what I experience on other laptops with no graphics cards. Also I have a desktop WIn7 on my CNC with Bobcad V26 and only 2 Gig of ram, stock graphics card, and the behavior is bad on all systems. I would have thought the new laptop would solve this since it is far beyond any other computers I have run V26 on. This video shows the move pretty quick. There are cases where it can take over 60 seconds to move this part. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Does anybody else take these long times as shown in the video?


https://youtu.be/jvQe9jbYOWw

I get response like that when i am working on heavy files (heavy files for bobcad will be different than other programs that are not both CAD "and" CAM). There is alot of information being tracked and stored.

Even just "lines" can be heavy for it. It does seem to have a "limit" where it goes into "heavy".... (select everything and note how many "entities" you have...)

There are some things to help.

First and easiest (a good habit with all your files) is to layer things out and only show whats needed for current task.

Next if you need alot of stuff showing, you can optimize the viewport for it. Prefs-display = lower settimgs on shaded and wireframe sliders. Then under view menu, you can deselect anti aliasing, shaded (and for solids, polygon fill settings).

These things can make a heavy file work quick.

There are alot of other things if those dont make and affect. It gets into computer setup, and other apps and drivers (method particular to you)

If you want/need to dig into the computers, we can discuss that.

[jrmach]

Zip a file for us to to try.One that is giving you problems in V26.

I don't have none of what you speak of,as far as problems on 2D files

[tchapman1000]

Thanks for the suggestions. Here is a file that bogs down.

11950 entities. The file started out as a dwg sent to me, then I added the mechanical parts.

Edit I tested with Prefs/settings and parts set shading/wire qualities to extreme left and extreme right and didn't notice any difference in the delays.

[jrmach]

That a lot of entities

Burr hit it on the head,,,Layers,,,

Divide it up,,,speed improves on turning on only what you need to work with

[tchapman1000]

Yes that definitely helps out separating things and turning off layers. Thanks for the suggestions!

[BurrMan]

Yes that definitely helps out separating things and turning off layers. Thanks for the suggestions!

That will be the biggest thing you can do, right off the bat with any files you get and create. "12000 entities" is not a small file in BobCad!

Its good this file already had entities separated by "color". It will make that part pretty easy. (Hopefully your client dwg's come through already setup like this from the layers)

Here's a quick video where I opened your file and showed a couple things (Separating the entities to layers is one. Using the color picker)

https://youtu.be/DbAUUtoPhdw

I show a couple of the viewport settings, and how they affect the performance.

As an afterthought, I threw in a suggestion to use resource monitor to look at what your CPU is doing. You have a pretty good CPU and shouldn't be THAT slow. You can look for other processes in there too, that move "above BobCad" in that list, while your working. This is where you can start to adjust things. Things like your Antivirus attaching to your bbcd process, can be limited in the settings of the antivirus/protection software. Like "Exclusion lists" and such....

Anyway.....

[tchapman1000]

Thanks Burrman that is good stuff. I will start monitoring the cpu more to understand whats going on.

[The Engine Guy]

@tchapman1000

First of all, I did the following tests on a 5 year old PC running BC V26 and V28 that has an early generation (3) i7 Processor, running only 8Gb Ram, a 256Gb SSD HD and an nVidia Quadro 600 Graphics card with 1Gb on board Ram, Win 7 Professional 64 bit, nothing particularly special by todays standards.

Right lets go, I downloaded your file that is indeed a little over 2Mb, I am having no problems whatsoever doing anything I want with the file in seconds, for the biggest test I selected ALL the geometry using the ALL selection tab and did a "Translate" move of 36 inches in both the X and Y at the same time, it was so quick I didn`t really have time to check the time accurately, the preview took about 1.5 seconds and when OK was clicked it took a fraction longer to move every bit of geometry and show the new preview position.

Did a couple of dimension checks and they were instant, basically as quick as I could move the cursor from one position to the other to generate the dimension it was there instantly.
Zooming in/out using the mouse wheel is also instant as is dragging/rotating with the mouse, in short I can find nothing in your file that my setup can`t handle in seconds so IMHO there is nothing amiss with the BC software.

Looking at your hardware the first thing that does strike me is that you don`t seem to have any decent level of Graphics capability, I have been down that road years ago and found that Graphics hardware that is OK for gaming is usually woefully bad when it comes to CAD-CAM softwares, my PC was put together for me by my local PC shop and together we spent quite some time looking at all the hardware that was going into it and the biggest thing that stood out was the difference in performance with the CAD-CAM software of different Graphics Cards, after testing a few the shop reckoned the best ones for the job in hand were the nVidia Quadro series cards, at the time all I could afford was the Quadro 600 with the 1Gb on board memory, we have since had them build another PC just over a year ago with more Ram and this time a Quadro K4000 card with 2Gb on board memory and that one flies, couldn`t test on that one as it is another location

Second thing I noticed is that you are running Win 10, I tried 10 and found it very much slower (On the exisiting hardware listed above) so rolled back to the old Win 7 Pro that just seems to run and run

I can only say from what few tests I have done with your file that it is definitely your computer that is somehow dragging everything down, I think you need to get a dialog going with your computer supplier to resolve this as I can`t honestly see that it is the BobCAD software, and yes it is a bit more "resource hungry" than some other softwares but it isn`t that bad, all the testing was done in both V26 and V28 with the same quick results

Sorry but that is all I have for you

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[tchapman1000]

Thanks for the info Rob. I am glad to get some feedback.
Here is what Bobcad website states:

Windows (Recommended)

6GB RAM or More on Windows 8 x64 Operating System
1GB Graphics Card*
Intel® or AMD® Processors**
2GHz Processor (Multi-core) or higher
Windows 8 x64

ATI® or NVIDIA® graphics cards with dedicated memory are recommended. The graphics card’s software driver must be updated to the current software drivers released by the graphics card manufacturer.

The card I have is the Nvidia, GTX1050Ti 4GB GDDR5. I am not sure how I can understand what you mean about inadequate graphics when it is 4G vs 1G recommended. I know there can be differences between cards, but in this case I don't have much info to go on as to which one to use. Also, this is what came on the laptop and I picked the biggest graphics card I could find on a machine. I cannot say if it is able to be removed and replaced with a different one.

[BurrMan]

I think engines post will be about right from MOST of the users who look at your file.

Although your gtx 1050ti is a hefty card, it is still a gaiming card, compared to....

So the process would look like this:

Adjust bios settings to be optimal.

Adjusting video driver settings to find what may be slowing you.

First, be sure to try the file while it is stored on the ssd portion of storage. 5400 may be a bottleneck on that system.

It can get involved after that. Drivers for ALL aspects of the system (what and when and from where. Order in which they were applied. Etc.... etc....)

Lastly moving to windows 10. Fresh? Pro? Optimized?

"Time applied" could cure all of that....

Do you have a local tech? He can come here for direction if he likes.

[tchapman1000]

I just found this reply about the GTX on a solidworks forum

Please note that the GeForce family of cards are NVIDIA's "consumer grade" cards, and are primarily intended for games, multi-media, etc. applications, and are not ideally suited to the demands of professional 3D applications such as CAD. For users regularly opening multiple windows, and who want to run in true color, NVIDIA recommends their Quadro-based family of cards, which are workstation grade cards that are developed for the demands of 3D design.

I will find out if the card in this computer can be replaced.

Edit I have read that you cannot upgrade the graphics card. Looks like I stuck for a while.

[BurrMan]

I have read that you cannot upgrade the graphics card. Looks like I stuck for a while.

Laptop........

But, we can make some settings with windows, and the current driver, to help. It should make a difference.

[tchapman1000]

I searched on ways to speed up WIn10. Found this video and did everything in it. The only thing I did not do was remove any start up items as the system is brand new and there is not much I can remove, there is a lot there but since I don't know for sure what it all is I left it in. I did everything else. I for sure noticed a speed improvement.



I also posted on the ASUS website under their gaming computers to see if anything has suggestions on the graphics card and possible upgrade. I can solder the card if needed so we will see.

[nick952]

Have you confirmed that Bobcad is actually using the Nvidia card and not just defaulting to the Intel onboard graphics?

Nick.

[tchapman1000]

no idea how you would check that

[BurrMan]

I searched on ways to speed up WIn10. Found this video and did everything in it. The only thing I did not do was remove any start up items as the system is brand new and there is not much I can remove, there is a lot there but since I don't know for sure what it all is I left it in. I did everything else. I for sure noticed a speed improvement.

That's a few of the things that should help. Good start.

I also posted on the ASUS website under their gaming computers to see if anything has suggestions on the graphics card and possible upgrade. I can solder the card if needed so we will see

No, don't do this. The card is fine. And matching cards with all the rest of the A+ is tricky business. We will look at tweaking the current drivers settings. (Last resorts are looking at rolling back to a previous version. But I don't think any of your issues are Driver version related.... So leave it be)

regarding the asus forum post, be sure to read with a grain of salt. you can find some good advice, but most is pretty bad. and CAD/CAM is really a different animal than gaming.

We can start to look at your card and driver now.

First, be sure you are running JUST the driver. Not "GeForce Experience" on top of it.

Next, you want to look at the card settings. We can start by adjusting the image settings with preview item for "use my preference emphasizing performance". Then, under manage 3d setting, we can look at a couple settings. But BobCad doesn't really use much of the GPU. The SIMulation will use it, but not very heavily. The setting are more for getting the computer to not think of itself, so to speak

I'll find a video that can show some settings to make.

Really though, the BIOS is the first step. Nick touched on this and you indicated a little unsure. It will be hard to guide you, as I don't have your BIOS to look at (I'll see if I can figure it out from the info provided and give some pointers)
The BIOS is entered during boot by pressing 1 of a few different keys (esc, F2, F12, DEL) try those. But just look. Don't change anything here that you are not sure about. Here you can disable hardware that you don't use. Like various ports, onboard video etc....

There may also be some settings that can be disabled or changed, to add to performance. Hold for those.