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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Smithy > Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    8

    Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Looking to get a CNC Mill, But I dont know which one to purchase. I have no CNC expereince, and really like how the Tormach has so many Tutorials and large Forums to get help in. But I love the construction of the Smithy, It just seems like a better built machine. Any suggestions or experience would be greatly appreciated!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    1424

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by 32Racer View Post
    Looking to get a CNC Mill, But I dont know which one to purchase. I have no CNC expereince, and really like how the Tormach has so many Tutorials and large Forums to get help in. But I love the construction of the Smithy, It just seems like a better built machine. Any suggestions or experience would be greatly appreciated!!
    Another machine to look at is the Novakon Torus Pro.

    I looked at both the Torus Pro and 1100, and bought the 1100 for the following reasons:

    1. Beefier column casting should make the machine more rigid
    2. Novakon uses grub screws instead of a trapezoidal gib strip for adjusting gib tightness. Grub screws is a "low-rent" approach.
    3. Tormach is a larger company and makes larger volume purchases, which means more likely that they can force quality on their suppliers
    4. Tormach is more established, has a larger workforce, and a much larger base of users meaning that help is easier to get if something goes wrong

    Tormach vs Novakon:
    - Tormach gets a nod because pathpilot is a better control software than mach 3
    - If you want servo drive, than Tormach is not the way to go
    - Tormach has more limited travel (18" X vs 24", 9.5" Y vs 15" Y for the Novakon)
    - Tormach has a better build quality and mechanical construction (IMHO).

    Novakon vs. MX200:
    - MX200 gets the nod because it uses an industrial control system (Siemens 808D) instead of mach 3
    - Servo drivers and controls are a known industrial quality brand name; don't know what Novakon is using
    - MX200 has limited travel (21" X vs 24", 11" Y vs 15" Y for the Novakon)
    - MX 200 BT30 taper is a far superior method of toolholding (vs. R-8 collet and straight shank 3/4" TTS)
    - MX200 price includes power draw bar
    - No ATC available for MX200

    Tormach vs MX200:
    - Tormach has more limited travel (18" X vs 21", 9.5" Y vs 11" Y for the MX200)
    - No servo version available for Tormach
    - MX 200 BT30 taper is a far superior method of toolholding (vs. R-8 collet and straight shank 3/4" TTS)
    - MX200 has a much smaller user base, no established track record for this machine of quality and maintainability
    - MX200 price includes power draw bar
    - No ATC available for MX200

    I haven't seen the MX200 in person, so can't provide more detailed comparison. Pictures make the column look beefier than the Pulser Pro.

    Note: the BT30 is kind of an unfair comparison; you can get both the Pulser Pro and Tormach with BT30 as an option, but no power draw bar or ATC is available if you do. The MX200 (at least so far) has no ATC, but does have a BT30 PDB.

    One nice thing about the Tormach is they designed it so the spindle bearings are all in a cartridge, and can be replaced in a matter of minutes. And you can also replace that cartridge with a high speed water-cooled spindle if you work primarily aluminum or engraving.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    131

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    The biggest reason I went with the Tormach is the ease to repair. Nothing about it is difficult. I looked at the Novakon, it was one of the two I was considering.I had tried Mach3 and Pathpilot and the difference is night and day. Pathpilot of far superior, the finishes are better and the machine actually sounds completely different.

    This guy just got one. he said he should be receiving it within a month. You can wait and see how it works out for him.
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/smithy...-cnc-mill.html

    There is someone else that bought their CNC lathe and it has been pretty much unusable since he bought it. Maybe you can contact him and ask him privately what Smithy has done about this expensive problem. If they left him stuck to fend for himself on an expensive piece of machinery, understand that will happen to you if you are unlucky and get a lemon. I am not sure of the details but its good to do your due diligence.
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac...6-tormach.html

  4. #4
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    Mar 2013
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    131

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by 32Racer View Post
    Looking to get a CNC Mill, But I dont know which one to purchase. I have no CNC expereince, and really like how the Tormach has so many Tutorials and large Forums to get help in. But I love the construction of the Smithy, It just seems like a better built machine. Any suggestions or experience would be greatly appreciated!!
    Another thing, what are you going to be using this machine for primarily?

  5. #5
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    Jul 2004
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    1424

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by eltejano View Post
    There is someone else that bought their CNC lathe and it has been pretty much unusable since he bought it...If they left him stuck to fend for himself on an expensive piece of machinery, understand that will happen to you if you are unlucky and get a lemon..
    They didn't "leave him stuck"....Smithy replaced that lathe with a higher quality model from a different manufacturer, and sin-arms seems much happier now. If you read that thread to completion, you would have noticed that. It took awhile, but Smithy came through for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by sin_arms View Post
    I did get a different machine an FL300 II, so far it seems like 10x the machine.
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/smithy...-fl300-ii.html
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2013
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    131

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by tmarks11 View Post
    They didn't "leave him stuck"....Smithy replaced that lathe with a higher quality model from a different manufacturer, and sin-arms seems much happier now. If you read that thread to completion, you would have noticed that. It took awhile, but Smithy came through for him.



    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/smithy...-fl300-ii.html
    You sure are correct. He should really edit that title with and put the word "resolved" in parentheses or something.

    I need to buy a lathe and I was considering a smithy.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2013
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    8

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by eltejano View Post
    Another thing, what are you going to be using this machine for primarily?
    I am primarily going to be producing small runs of parts for a machine my company is building. We also plan on doing some small jobs for others when we can pick them up

  8. #8
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    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by 32Racer View Post
    I am primarily going to be producing small runs of parts for a machine my company is building. We also plan on doing some small jobs for others when we can pick them up
    If you plan on machining a lot of steel, go with the bigger machine. I cut steel on occasion but this thing is not the most rigid machine. Aluminum and brass is a cinch. Pathpilot is incredibly easy to learn.

    Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Jul 2004
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    1424

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by eltejano View Post
    If you plan on machining a lot of steel, go with the bigger machine
    Increased XYZ travel and table width does not necessarily equate to a more rigid machine. Case in point: Novakon Torus Pro vs Tormach 1100. Tormach is a more rigid design.

    Now if you mean "bigger" as in more HP, than that is true. 4HP servo on the MX200 beats the 2 HP (Torus Pro) and 1.5 HP (Tormach) induction motors by a long way.

    OP: do you see a need to do "lights out" machining (as in let the machine run largely unattended). If so, you need an Automatic Tool Changer (ATC). Smithy has a "tool rack" that is mounted on the table for automated tool changes.... but that is a disaster waiting to happen (all it takes is a chip on the next tool mating surfaces to wipe out your production line due to lost tolerances and possibly damage your spindle taper). I would call Smithy and ask them if they intend to offer an ATC for this model (wouldn't be surprised).

    ...or better yet, step up to the next model up, the Talon MT300. Linear guideways, 3/4 enclosure, and ATC is available.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  10. #10
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    Nov 2013
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    8

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by tmarks11 View Post
    Increased XYZ travel and table width does not necessarily equate to a more rigid machine. Case in point: Novakon Torus Pro vs Tormach 1100. Tormach is a more rigid design.

    Now if you mean "bigger" as in more HP, than that is true. 4HP servo on the MX200 beats the 2 HP (Torus Pro) and 1.5 HP (Tormach) induction motors by a long way.

    OP: do you see a need to do "lights out" machining (as in let the machine run largely unattended). If so, you need an Automatic Tool Changer (ATC). Smithy has a "tool rack" that is mounted on the table for automated tool changes.... but that is a disaster waiting to happen (all it takes is a chip on the next tool mating surfaces to wipe out your production line due to lost tolerances and possibly damage your spindle taper). I would call Smithy and ask them if they intend to offer an ATC for this model (wouldn't be surprised).

    ...or better yet, step up to the next model up, the Talon MT300. Linear guideways, 3/4 enclosure, and ATC is available.
    Tmarks,
    No plans on lights out machining at this time. I feel like the Automate is more rigid than the Tormach looking at the weight. The Automate weighs in at 2150 and the Tormach at 1130. So there is a lot more steel in the Automate for sure. My main concern is learnig how to program and set the machine up. There are many videos on the web of the Tormach but very few with the Automate. I also worry about getting service with the Automate. I also like the Rapid Turn for the Tormach. The Tormach definitely has some great pros going for it.

  11. #11
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    Jul 2004
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    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by 32Racer View Post
    My main concern is learnig how to program and set the machine up. There are many videos on the web of the Tormach but very few with the Automate.
    Look on youtube for "siemens 808D". There are a lot of videos for the controller; doesn't matter whether or not they are actually specific to Automate or some other machine. That is the beauty of using a commercial standard controller. Sort of like looking for "Dell 6500s" videos when really you need "Windows 10" videos.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  12. #12
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    Jun 2013
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    25

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Lot of good input on the forum tmarks.

    Novakon's torus pro is the same machine as our old 1240 cnc mill(same factory). Not a bad machine, but not as nice as the MX200.

    I have 1 of these machines that I retrofitted with Siemens controls. It has 4 hp servo spindles from GSK. Very nice setup, its just not as rigid as the MX200. With that much power, the r8/tts tooling really lacks compared to a proper spindle.

  13. #13
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    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by kadesmithy View Post
    ... its just not as rigid as the MX200...
    Are you planning to offer an ATC for the MX200?
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  14. #14
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    Jun 2013
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    25

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    Not at this current time. Thanks

  15. #15
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    Nov 2016
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    151

    Re: Smithy MX 200 or Tormach 1100

    I looked at both and went for the Tormach for a lot of reasons already mentioned, but also, it is in my garage and I didn't want to fuss with 3 phase and the MX-200 looked to be too tall. The Tormach was also cheaper (in my configuration) and easier to setup. But if I was needing more power (and putting this in a 3 phase shop) then I would have given more consideration to the MX-200. And the BT-30 holder, as I have quickly learned. But I would have to see more history. I don't know how many mills in this price range I have looked at over the years that didn't stay in production very long.

  16. #16
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    Nov 2012
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    145
    Quote Originally Posted by syscore View Post
    I looked at both and went for the Tormach for a lot of reasons already mentioned, but also, it is in my garage and I didn't want to fuss with 3 phase and the MX-200 looked to be too tall. The Tormach was also cheaper (in my configuration) and easier to setup. But if I was needing more power (and putting this in a 3 phase shop) then I would have given more consideration to the MX-200. And the BT-30 holder, as I have quickly learned. But I would have to see more history. I don't know how many mills in this price range I have looked at over the years that didn't stay in production very long.
    I will be putting one into my garage possibly the 425 but I plan to get the 3 phase with the converter which would open up more machines at auctions instead of saying I wish!

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