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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    881

    bobcad/cam vs rhino

    the short version of this story is that i am looking to order a turnkey x2 or x3 mill, and i already have rhino, but from what i'm seeing people really like the bobcad stuff, i've never seen it, but i was wondering if someone that has seen both could tell me more... I'm fairly good with rhino, and i'm just wondering if learning new software will be worth the time and cost....
    Grizzly X3, CNC Fusion Ballscrew kit, 3 500oz-in bipolar steppers, 3 203v Gecko's, Linear power supply from Hubbard CNC, Mach 3, BOBcad Pro Art V22, Rhino.

  2. #2

    Quick advice


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4396
    Version 21 CAD/CAM offers enhanced CAD Design with wireframe, surface creation tools and solid modeling with new file import options that include SolidWorks & Parasolid X_T/X_B support. Version 21 provides 2.5, 3 & 4 axis toolpath as well as profiling, New engraving capabilities, hole pattern and automatic pocketing functions. Visual basic scripting functions are added to provide manufacturers with the ultimate tools for part programming. Post processors are FREE, fully user-definable and both RS 232 plus DNC capabilities are included. There is now a NEW complete 10 CD training professor video series available for Version 21 and it is also available in Spanish.

    As a BCC user of 5 years (V17, V19, V20, & V21) I can say it really depends on what you want to do now and in the future. V21 backed by BobArt ProX should do what you want.

    What do you plan on making?
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  4. #4

    Read the link

    As worked with BobCAD for 6 years, I can tell you that if you do go that rout, get many opionions first, that will be helpful. Also, be sure that you thorougly check out the demo on your end. Ask them for a fully functional license. I worked there and trust me, they will tell you know at first, because they want the sale. But if you insist, they'll offer it to you. Once you buy, you cant turn back around. And again, click on that link, it says more than just that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4396
    Quote Originally Posted by rodneydeeeee View Post
    As worked with BobCAD for 6 years, I can tell you that if you do go that rout, get many opionions first, that will be helpful. Also, be sure that you thorougly check out the demo on your end. Ask them for a fully functional license. I worked there and trust me, they will tell you know at first, because they want the sale. But if you insist, they'll offer it to you. Once you buy, you cant turn back around. And again, click on that link, it says more than just that.
    Says a lot more than what I posted, WOW!!!!
    Well you can read up on BCC in this Forum and these two as well
    http://216.117.147.20/bobcadsupport/forums/index.php

    CNC Zone has a vast amount of information as well.

    http://cadcamtrainer.com/forums/index.php.

    CAD/CAM Trainer is Sorin Nenu's Forum. He is the Official BobCAD/CAM Trainer and a Private Contractor, not a salesperson. He offers FREE Video Tutorials Located on his site if you register. All of the Members have respect for eachother and their Software of choice, which can be any Software.

    Project5k,
    I'll tell you what I tell everyone else.
    "Only you can decide what software is best for you and your needs".

    Try Demos of Software, and form your opinion from there.
    Remember one thing when choosing" It's your choice"

    Good luck with what ever you choose and all of these forums will be here to help if you have any questions.

    Cheers!!!!!:cheers:
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  6. #6
    Well some users like to see both sides of it, not just the positive. So therefore thats why I recomend he read the reviews, not just the beginning which was wrote by a BobCAD sales rep.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4396
    Quote Originally Posted by rodneydeeeee View Post
    Well some users like to see both sides of it, not just the positive. So therefore thats why I recomend he read the reviews, not just the beginning which was wrote by a BobCAD sales rep.
    Sorry about that, I didn't know those reviews were there
    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com

  8. #8

    Its ok

    It's ok Toby, most don't but its helpful for reviews on many differnt systems.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    2103
    Quote Originally Posted by project5k View Post
    the short version of this story is that i am looking to order a turnkey x2 or x3 mill, and i already have rhino, but from what i'm seeing people really like the bobcad stuff, i've never seen it, but i was wondering if someone that has seen both could tell me more... I'm fairly good with rhino, and i'm just wondering if learning new software will be worth the time and cost....
    Which version of Rhino do you have? If version 3 or 4 contact Joakim at the following link.

    http://www.madcamcnc.com/start.html

    I use Madcam, which is a plugin for Rhino, and I love it.

    Mike
    No greater love can a man have than this, that he give his life for a friend.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    881
    thanks for all the information everyone.. i'll answer the questions i remember first and then go back and answer others... im running an old rhino, v2.. yea i know i shoud update, but its what i've got for now and it serves my current needs...

    madcam huh.. how does a plugin work with rhino? i've never tried to "plug in" anything into it... so far all i have used it for is to draw ideas of things that i want to make,and to us it as a floorplan software when designing the slab for my shop.. drew all the forms and steel layout and whatnot so that i could make sure things would fit, and to have something to hand to my contractor, and tell him, "this is what i want"

    as for what i'm gonna be making, well mostly to start off it will be keychains, and custom vehicle accents, things like that.. then as i get better, and some milling experience, i'll get into more complex parts.. i would really like to make my own custom wheels and parts for some of my RC cars and boats...

    99% of what i'll be making will be in t6061 alum, but i'm sure that i'll have a few things that i want to make out of mild steel... i have a few tools that i would like to make, and mild steel would be ideal....

    i am seriously considering going ahead and getting the 4th axis for the machine, that way i'm not limited to what i can do extept in my skill and the size of tha parts, but it looks like the x3 is big enough to handle all of my "preorders" as of right now...

    i downloaded the bobcam demo, and having only ever dealt with rhino, so far i'm finding it clunky and restrictive, but im sure thats just part of the learning curve with the new software...

    I will go and check out the reviews, and the videos when i have time...later this evening.. right now i'm off to the banks to see what i can learn about getting some $$.. see what the rates are like, and what the payments are going to look like.... then when i finally find out that i can get the $$ then i will get all kinds of serious about picking a machine and whatnot.. right now it really feels like a pipe dream, cause i dont know if i can evern get the $$ to do all this... i know doing the homework is the most important thing, and learning all about the software is part of it, but knowing if i can even do any of this is part of it too....

    thanks again for all the information.. and if you have any other ideas, suggestions, or ideas, please dont hesitate to let me know....
    Grizzly X3, CNC Fusion Ballscrew kit, 3 500oz-in bipolar steppers, 3 203v Gecko's, Linear power supply from Hubbard CNC, Mach 3, BOBcad Pro Art V22, Rhino.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    2103
    Madcam is a program that sits inside Rhino and runs in conjunction with Rhino. The problem is that neither version of Madcam will run in version 2 of Rhino.

    Now another option I just thought of is Meshcam. Low cost program that is quite easy to use and super support. There is a Meshcam forum here on the zone....I think.

    Mike
    No greater love can a man have than this, that he give his life for a friend.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    14
    I've had Bob-cad since v17 about 6-7 years ago. I am now using Rhino. The last version of Bob-cad that I bought was v21. If you want to do basic programing then its probably all you need. The software is cheap and you can work the sales people down to $300 and get them to throw in Bob Art, Bob Nest, and extra desk. They advertise the software as 3-D which is not true. Its only 2.5-D.
    Now for the bad side to Bob cad that made me switch. There program like any others has some flaws. Bob-cad does not offer many updates. Instead they come out with a new version every year or so and when you run into a problem they tell you that your older version is no longer being updated "fork up some more cash for the new version" The other thing that they are bad about is there maintenance fee, something like $250 A YEAR !!!!! Thats what I paid for the software! I tried to call them to let them know about a error in there software and they told me that I couldn't talk to tech support because I didn't have a maintenance program.
    Instead of being nickel and dimmed every year by Bob-cad I decided to spend a little more and buy Rhino CAD and Rhino CAM PRO. Yes it cost a bit more but its 10X the program that Bob-cad is. You NEVER have to pay for tech support and you don't get the annoying sales calls like I did from Bob-cad.
    This should tell you something. The sales people from Bob-cad started calling about there new 2007 software. When I told them that I bought the full Rhino package and I said I LOVED it. They just said OK, thanks and never called again. They know when they have nothing more to offer.
    Bottom line is if your a hobbyist then Bob-cad may be all you need. I on the other hand design molds for the plastics industry and Rhino is a must and you get what you pay for.

  13. #13
    Bottom line is the new BCC 2007 is a new phase within BobCAD. It's not just a simple upgrade. If it was, it would have just been simply BCC V22. This is nothing bad against RhinoCAM, but put the new BCC toolpath vs RC toolpath, let the work speak for itself. And to say it cant do 3D?? Be realistic. I could get several thousand customers that are cutting 3D parts everyday with BCC. Could you say the same??? BobCAD has Nasa, Smith and Weston, the olympic luge team, Bayer, some of the largest companies in the world using BobCAD, I dont think any of them names represent hobbyist. Before you come on and criticize BobCAD, do your research. V2007 is one of the top systems in the market. Its not comparable with V21.
    Rodney Hill

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    14
    I see from the phone number and extension you must work for Bob-cad. And your just doing your job.....selling Bob-cad.
    When you say "Bob-CAD has NASA, Smith and Weston, the Olympic luge team, Bayer, some of the largest companies in the world using Bob-CAD" how much would you like to bet they use other programs like Rhino, Surf-cam, Master-cam, etc.
    Just because they have it doesn't mean that it does everything they need. I have several friends that do CNC programing and they have way more programs than I do. One of my friend is walking around with a quarter million dollar laptop. He's a reseller for the majority of the Cad Cam titles out there and he has them all on his laptop. He's the one that told me to get Rhino when I bought my 5axis routers. Rhino Cam Pro does 5 axis indexing.

    Bob-cad is not a bad program by a long shot. I was happy with it for many years but as my needs increased and projects got more complicated I began to realize that I needed more features.
    My main complaint about Bob-cad is the annual maintenance fee. They get you with a decent price on the software but they continue to milk you for money every year after that.

  15. #15
    Yes I do work at BobCAD. One thing we all know is is that technology changes, so do we all. BobCAD has had some issues in the past. We are honestly proud to say that they have all been taken care of. In regards to 5 axis indexing, our V21 offers full 3 Axis , 4th and 5th axis indexing. If you would like to see it done, I would be proud to do so for you. Let me ask you something. I used to sell Mecsoft, Rhino etc... Can you honestly say that there "Best" toolpath compares to BobCADs waterline toolpath or equi-distant toolpath????? Only 2 other systems in the world offer this solution. Not to mention the price of them either. In regards to maintenance, BCC does not have maintenance fee's. We have a yearly support fee which is "optional". For the first 17 years we did offer free support, which may be what RhinoCAM is doing now. But but but.... we have 45,000 customers world wide, is $250 a year really alot to service a guy? Thats less than a dollar a day. Once you get to a point with so many customers, you have to be able to pay more technicians that you hire. We have 15-20 tech guys that do nothing but handle tech calls etc... Am I being fair?
    Rodney Hill

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    14
    $250 a year so I can call and tell you that you have a glitch?
    I'm not calling to ask how to do something.
    You said it yourself, quote:Bob-CAD has had some issues in the past.
    I should be able to bring that to your attention at no cost. You should say thank you for helping us make Bob-cad better and sorry for the inconvenience.
    Not, sorry, but you have had this program for over a year. It will be $250 to talk to someone or you can upgrade for a few dollars more and get the newer version
    I can imagine some of your customers would be on the phone with tech support every day because they don't have the slightest clue about what there doing. Top control that you should tell everyone that you get 2 free tech calls per year after the first year and if you need more then you need to buy a tech support program.
    I have NEVER had to call and ask "how do I do this". The Bob-cad menu is very straight forward and the video professor shows you 99% of what you need to know. The rest is common sense and applying the tools to you application.

  17. #17
    Ok, understandable. You may have talked to the wrong person once or twice. Post Processors, Comms, glitches, what may have you are FREE. You do not pay for that. Keep in mind the secretary that answeres is just a secretary and knows nothing about the CNC industry. Alot of secretarys at shops I call dont know a difference between CAD & CAM. It may have been reworded wrong or what have you. At any time, 24/7 I would love for this to be brought to my attention. We are always looking for feed back whether its positive or negative. With that being said, we offer better than 2 free calls. The first month and a half of the software, you can call 100 times a day and its free.
    Rodney Hill

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    14
    OK, I have 1 copy of Rhino w/ Rhino Cam Pro. As you know they use a dongle "which I hate" . I am getting ready to buy another copy for my laptop that I bring on the road. I use a portable CMM for digitizing. Is your BC 2007 compatible and will it process point clouds? If so then you have my attention.

  19. #19
    With our new 2007, we have gone modular. No longer is it just mill/lathe/router/waterjet/plasma all in the same package. To get the best cutting results, we have gone modular. I know you do hate it, but we have gone dongle as well. We could certainly help out. In regards to point clouds, we can not process them. We can read in the STL or whatever it may be.
    Rodney Hill

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    65
    If you go and get the lathe out will help me.


    Thanks
    John

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