[mws2107]

I am getting into doing my own machining for firearm parts we manufacture currently with others. I am wanting to start this in my garage so not to grow expenses to quickly. Cost of machine is not too big of an issue.



The issues I have ceiling is too low for any Haas VF series, MM series or TM series.



I have never ran my own machine however I do solid works and have years of 3d printing experience as far as other knowledge of machining.



Things which I must have a auto tool changer, enclosure, machine needs to be newer do not want a repair headache machine and most important - high quality finishing.



I do not need a big work area to start at this time all of the parts I make are smaller than an ar10 lower.

I will be going bigger in my next machine after I move it from my garage and move my business at the same time.


I have read a lot about Tormach however, the quality I see, leaves me questioning whether it is a good match. Asking here because I think this is one of the best resources I have seen and will be on here a lot soon I feel.

Thanks Ian

[SCzEngrgGroup]

No doubt some here will take offense, but at pretty much every important performance measure other than work envelope, and possibly cost, the small Hass machines will run circles around a Tormach, or any other machine in its class. They have FAR faster, higher power spindles (30K RPM/5+HP), and FAR faster rapids (700 IPM). If you can live with the tiny work envelopes, they should serve you very well. Depending on exactly what you'd be making, they'd almost certainly end up being as much as 5-10X faster in terms of production time per part. I'd have to assume you'd be looking at used machines, since I don't think the OMs are sold any more, and the CM is a LOT more money. And, they'll cost you a LOT more to repair if they break, since you have only one source for parts. But, unless abused, they should be very reliable.

Regards,
Ray L.

[toyshop]

Southwestern Industries, Inc.

with a custom base cabinet this would probably work.

Dave

[RussMachine]

If the cost of the machine is not an issue, then you should look at the HAAS Mini-Mill.
A great small CNC Mill.

[mws2107]

I would love to but as I state in my post the machine is too tall

If the cost of the machine is not an issue, then you should look at the HAAS Mini-Mill.
A great small CNC Mill.

- - - Updated - - -

This machine is too tall I need to be low 90"

Southwestern Industries, Inc.

with a custom base cabinet this would probably work.

Dave

[Steve Seebold]

You could always cut a hole in the ceiling where the machine is going to sit.

If your plan is to make 25 or more pieces, the Tormach is not for you. If your parts require a lot of steel cutting, the Tormach is not fur you.

Have you considered a Haas Mini or a southwest industries 2OP.

Both are excellent machines.

[joshetect]

what ceiling height are you working with?

Is this a garage with a house over? Or a roof over, where you could raise the ceiling a bit.

What kind of power do you have or are willing to get in the garage? 240 single phase,3 phase?

Or is this a basement? Never mind looks like you stated garage.

[IMT]

I would love to but as I state in my post the machine is too tall

- - - Updated - - -

This machine is too tall I need to be low 90"

Tormach 1100 with a cabinet is less than 90" but the cable chain for the PDB sticks out the top by several inches.

[IMT]

If machine cost was not an issue I would look at the Haas DT/DM series. They are insanely fast and can be setup to use a pallet changer. Also look at other machines in that class such as Brother. You can find a decent used Brother for the same $ as a fully outfitted Tormach, but then your getting a used machine.

[LeeWay]

I just received my Mini Mill Friday.
The mini mill needs 106" to clear the top when running. This is counting 3.5" for the feet and assumes the cable chain will not rub.
You could get a few more inches there if you lower the feet all the way onto steel plate instead of cast aluminum feet.
If you have 10 or 12" floor joists above the machine, then it could be sat to go in between them easily. Unless you are using a 4th axis, I don't think the upper 4" of travel would be used much. Maybe for your longer tools. It only needs 80 inches of door height to get it inside.
The Trak 2nd OP mill costs more than the Haas Mini Mill. 2 fewer tools and it does have a few limitations too. They simply do not want you to run it as a first op mill.
I would pass on it.

If money is not an issue though, The Compact mill may very well fit your needs, though with a 4th and 5th would be much more of a machine and cost. Geared really toward smaller more detailed work like jeweler and medical stuff.
Check the size on the DT machines. They may be similar to the Mini.

The DT1 needs less machine height at 101", but require's 95" to get it through a door.

[punkman]

I assembled my 1100 just outside of my shop door, placing the mill on the stand. I slid a pallet jack under it and pulled it into the shop the door opening was 80 inches and it just fit under that by about a 1/2 inch without taking the top stepper off.

Tormach 1100 with a cabinet is less than 90" but the cable chain for the PDB sticks out the top by several inches.

[IMT]

I assembled my 1100 just outside of my shop door, placing the mill on the stand. I slid a pallet jack under it and pulled it into the shop the door opening was 80 inches and it just fit under that by about a 1/2 inch without taking the top stepper off.

Without the enclosure.

[punkman]

Without the enclosure.

Yes that is correct, without a enclosure

[mws2107]

Yes this is the way it is. house over the garage.
Likely single phase only.

what ceiling height are you working with?

Is this a garage with a house over? Or a roof over, where you could raise the ceiling a bit.

What kind of power do you have or are willing to get in the garage? 240 single phase,3 phase?

Or is this a basement? Never mind looks like you stated garage.

[IMT]

With your height and power limitations the 1100 may be your best option. Not a bad place to start. When your business grows and moves into a real shop you can get a machine better suited for production and still use the 1100 for second ops and prototype parts.

[mountaindew]

Hobby - or light production and prototype work Tormach is the way to go. If you plan on covering large inspection tables with shiny parts every day, then I would step my game and money up to more robust machines and tooling. One could also be a 2nd op machine if you get both . Start with Tormach and add more speed and power when you need it with a Mini.

[CadRhino]

Cool,
How much was you mill if you don't mind me asking? Was it new?

I just received my Mini Mill Friday.
The mini mill needs 106" to clear the top when running. This is counting 3.5" for the feet and assumes the cable chain will not rub.
You could get a few more inches there if you lower the feet all the way onto steel plate instead of cast aluminum feet.
If you have 10 or 12" floor joists above the machine, then it could be sat to go in between them easily. Unless you are using a 4th axis, I don't think the upper 4" of travel would be used much. Maybe for your longer tools. It only needs 80 inches of door height to get it inside.
The Trak 2nd OP mill costs more than the Haas Mini Mill. 2 fewer tools and it does have a few limitations too. They simply do not want you to run it as a first op mill.
I would pass on it.

If money is not an issue though, The Compact mill may very well fit your needs, though with a 4th and 5th would be much more of a machine and cost. Geared really toward smaller more detailed work like jeweler and medical stuff.
Check the size on the DT machines. They may be similar to the Mini.

The DT1 needs less machine height at 101", but require's 95" to get it through a door.

[shred]

I have a similar business, but in my case the Tormach works great for making prototypes and short production runs, but for anything requiring quantity production and excellent finish, I outsource to local shops with big machines and pallet changers and people to babysit and load and unload them. It's a personality thing. I find making 100 parts gets boring fast, while the production shop thinks optimizing a run to cut 10 minutes out of the whole batch is fun.

If you can, I'd suggest visiting some shops with the HAAS machines and talk with them. The HAAS rep should be able to find one. If you've not seen a Tormach in action, there's the owner-demo-list or if there's a Techshop nearby, they have them albeit without the toolchanger and enclosure.

Also, if you've not done any garage machining before, the amount of space and number of accessory tools needed (saws, grinders, tumblers, sandblasters, compressors, sanders, stock racks, packaging, etc...) is surprisingly large as well.

[LeeWay]

You can build your own quote on the website. The only extra I added was rigid tapping. It's the only one I could not live without. It comes standard on most models, but not the MM.
That site price is what I got.
$34490.00 Less 5% discount.

$32765.50

Freight was $1500.00.

I may spring for the High speed machining on it. I have 200 try out hours in which I will be able to test it to see if it is justifiable for us.

[CadRhino]

Cool. Do you know how much more for the 4th axis?
Thanks

You can build your own quote on the website. The only extra I added was rigid tapping. It's the only one I could not live without. It comes standard on most models, but not the MM.
That site price is what I got.
$34490.00 Less 5% discount.

$32765.50

Freight was $1500.00.

I may spring for the High speed machining on it. I have 200 try out hours in which I will be able to test it to see if it is justifiable for us.