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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    106

    Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Hi all.
    I have cinncinati Hawk 150 with acramatic a2100, vickers drives.
    On startup it passes all diagnostics, then waits for the green button to power up hydraulics and servos.
    Once I press it, hydraulic pump start, vickers drivers for x and z start, 3 Led's turn green.
    https://youtu.be/VmvY90HLZtc
    https://youtu.be/HRwArwe-HcE
    X axis servo motor rapids down excessively, causing machine to shake, and errors X axis servo fail, X axis servo error.
    Can anyone suggest me where to start?
    All the best
    Tom Spiszak

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    584

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Has this machine been running and no changes have been made??? Do you get an open loop error?? Have any wires or motors been changed?? Give us more history.

    MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    106
    I purchased it not long ago. We had a problem with booting windows nt. A Real time motherboard got detached from main board and was throwing errors upon diagnostics. That's sorted now. No other errors apart from that: errors 44-45 X axis servo fail, 44-44 X axis servo error. I took some pictures of cables and servo drive jumper settings.
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3mprwmcnq...3nZGqaWia?dl=0
    Any Suggestions?
    All the best
    Tom

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by tspiszak View Post
    Hi all.
    I have cinncinati Hawk 150 with acramatic a2100, vickers drives.
    On startup it passes all diagnostics, then waits for the green button to power up hydraulics and servos.
    Once I press it, hydraulic pump start, vickers drivers for x and z start, 3 Led's turn green.
    https://youtu.be/VmvY90HLZtc
    https://youtu.be/HRwArwe-HcE
    X axis servo motor rapids down excessively, causing machine to shake, and errors X axis servo fail, X axis servo error.
    Can anyone suggest me where to start?
    All the best
    Tom Spiszak
    Tom i have the same machine and had some weird issues over the years but not this one.Do you get a chance to home the machine or does this happen when just pushing the green button to activa the e the system.I would check to see if your limit switch are stuck or damaged because these axises can be moved before the homing process has been completed and if they have been over run in the past they may have been damaged.The only otherthing i can think of is may be a relay or a switch thats stuck on the x axis curcuit.I hope this gives you a start to get it sorted because when running there an ausome little machine.cheers greg.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Hi.
    https://youtu.be/LHZdl66I66c

    Limit switches are good.*
    Can I swap servo drives from z to x just to eliminate x servo drive error? They are slightly different , on x is bds4 206 23 412w32 and on z *bds4 210 23 414w25.
    "may be a relay or a switch thats stuck on the x axis curcuit" -*don't know where to look for one.
    If I had optical scale on x, would it cause it to rapid?
    Thank you
    Tom

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6028

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    That's not a rapid at all. That's the drive thinking it's ready, and the x axis brake releasing.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Hi. I dont think brake release would cause machine to shake, also there's about 400V on servo drive output.

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6028

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    If you have proper voltage, not that just having voltage is always correct, the motor windings may be failed. It certainly looks like typical axis drop from the amp or motor not holding torque.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Would you advise to get another servo drive?

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Hi. I swapped the servo drive from z to x and it's still doing the same thing. Measured the resistance on the motor, then thru cables, it shows around 5ohm between phases. Same as z axis.
    What am I missing here.

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    584

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    The motor wires are phase sensitive (6 poles), make sure the 3 wires at the drive are in the correct position.

    MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Hi. Thank you for your reply. There's Ma Mb and Mc on the drive, cable has writing on 1,2,3. So a1, bo,c3.
    I swapped the drives and it's still happening. So the problem has to be between drive and motor itself.
    I disconnected motor power (3 fases) and it did an axis drop but slower, like brake release and then alarmed.



    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Oct 2016
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    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    https://youtu.be/4Bn3k9i2KOs

    Now as it hits lower limit switch it goes up and errors overload.

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Hi guys.
    I'm still struggling. I bought another vickers bds4 drive, and still same thing happened. So I have one bds4 for sale.
    This machine was equipped with linear scale, but that's disconnected before I bought it. I did some backup restore, Maybe I need to change some parameters, in case the backup for x axis included linear scale being on?
    But how would you do it?


    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    1765

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Quote Originally Posted by tspiszak View Post
    Hi guys.
    I'm still struggling. I bought another vickers bds4 drive, and still same thing happened. So I have one bds4 for sale.
    This machine was equipped with linear scale, but that's disconnected before I bought it. I did some backup restore, Maybe I need to change some parameters, in case the backup for x axis included linear scale being on?
    But how would you do it?


    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
    I cannot tell from ur video anything. Too little data. If indeed x motor runs away then that may be caused by missing or bad scale. Is there a scale? If not, fives can send u a doc how to change to drive enc emulation output.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    1765

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    I cannot tell from ur video anything. Too little data. If indeed x motor runs away then that may be caused by missing or bad scale. Is there a scale? If not, fives can send u a doc how to change to drive enc emulation output.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Sounds like ur drive, motor, motor cables are all good (or it would not have reversed dir and gone up again after ls). Prob most likely in bad or missing scale.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  17. #17
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    Oct 2016
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    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    Sounds like ur drive, motor, motor cables are all good (or it would not have reversed dir and gone up again after ls). Prob most likely in bad or missing scale.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Hi Mike. Correct. The scale was unplugged and wires in bd4 "closed loop", but it still had scale feedback in axis setup. We change that to motor feedback and hurray no more jumps.
    There's another issue, as soon as I start spindle, it " crashes " with SPINDLE OT ERR.

    I found a guy locally who knows Cincinnati, hopefully he can sort it out.
    Thanks

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    Sep 2010
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    1765

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Quote Originally Posted by tspiszak View Post
    Hi Mike. Correct. The scale was unplugged and wires in bd4 "closed loop", but it still had scale feedback in axis setup. We change that to motor feedback and hurray no more jumps.
    There's another issue, as soon as I start spindle, it " crashes " with SPINDLE OT ERR.

    I found a guy locally who knows Cincinnati, hopefully he can sort it out.
    Thanks

    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
    U hve Mach diagrams? We brought ot vfs5 thermostat out of drive and back in an io point... special. Is that maybe not the original vfs5? Got full part no?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    106

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    U hve Mach diagrams? We brought ot vfs5 thermostat out of drive and back in an io point... special. Is that maybe not the original vfs5? Got full part no?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    I have machine wiring diagram.
    Here's the spindle drive



    Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1765

    Re: Hawk 150, acramatic, servo motor rapids like mad on startup

    It would take too long to go look if that VFS5 part number is indeed the correct one for y our Hawk 150, I have paying jobs I gotta handle right now: my impression is it is not; we identified the special things we did inside the VFS5 with a 4 digit additional number - where your shows just 00. You can find out by calling Fives.

    But in the meantime, I can tell you that we disconnected the heatsink thermal sw inside, and added a jumper inside the drive to an output pin so the a2100 could monitor it instead. If you have a generic VFS5, it will not have this mod.

    THAT said, attached is a pix of your wiring diagram showing the pin we used to output the thermal sw. Follow your print and either jumper it on or whatever so the fault goes away. If it is a generic VFS5 without this mod, then the drive iteself is watching the heatsink temp and will handle shut down if it gets too hot. 6 one, half a dozen as they say.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hawk200 40 pages.pdf - Foxit Reader.jpg  

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