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Thread: Kira VTC 30

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  1. #21
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    Oct 2015
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Titaniumboy View Post
    Keep up the great posts with all of the detailed photos. I have been watching your progress for a couple of weeks now, and am happy you were able to bring the beast back to life.

    I only have a Novakon Torus CNC mill, which is a toy next to your mill. Maybe some day I will be able to move up to a real CNC mill.

    I’m looking forward to more posts as you restore your mill and start machining parts.
    Will do

    Nice. But I bet your mill works atleast. Can't say that for mine yet. That looks like a interesting mill. Was this your first mill and did you learn all by yourself with manuals/internet?


    Todays update is a small one. I waited all day for the epoxy to get 24hours cure time before I sanded it down with a dremel and painted it. It's a rough and dirty job but this part doesn't show at all so I think it's more important to make it strong and functional than to make it look good. It's been drying for a few hours now and I will let it sit all day tomorrow aswell. The West system epoxy has 1-4 day cure time but I've kept the part close to the fireplace all day since monday so even if the last layers just have 2 days of curing I hope it's enough. I'm way to curious to see tool changer movement and do a test pass milling of some aluminium to way more now. If I billed for the hours I've been repairing this terminal box I would have had atleast two new boxes by now but until I see everything working on the machine I'm not to eager on spending on parts.



  2. #22
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    Oct 2015
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    215

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Need some desperate help when I use the "Z" key on my panel it input "Y" on the MDI display and when I use "F" it shows Z as input on the MDI panel. When I try to type G28 X0Z0Y0 (without EOB/ and press outpt start it just throws sequence error. I'm guessing it is due to missing ";" (end of block) command. I have the EOB button but it doesn't work. Could that be because my keypad has been changed and the parameter setting is wrong?

    A long story short, The previous owner has changed the display and I don't know if the machine has ben running since they changed it. I got some pictures sent from him where it shows the machine with a old display and when I picked up the machine it has this shiny new unit.

    I found this parameter 0038#3 that has a selection of "Full key" or "Standard key". My machine is set to standard key from what I can figure out with all zeroes. I can't find the difference between standard key and full key so I don't dare to try to change it.. Could this solve my problem?




  3. #23
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    Feb 2009
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    6028

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Full key is large keypad with separate letters, std is the truncated one like you have.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  4. #24
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    Oct 2015
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    215

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Full key is large keypad with separate letters, std is the truncated one like you have.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    Thanks. Good thing I didn't try to change that parameter then It could be that the front keypad has been swapped so only the letters are wrong. I will experiment some.

    I got the code running. When I used debug codes I found out that door interlock was stopping the program from running. The switches doesn't go far enough down to the doors so I put something inbetween as a temp solution.

    I got the tool changer running but the spindle isn't stopping at correct position when I do a M19. It stops about 20 degrees off where it needs to be to mate with the tool. I've been reading the parameter manual for some hours now and I can't seem to spot any parameter for this. Is it set on the spindle unit or by moving the encoder manually?

  5. #25
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    Feb 2009
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Look at the spindle drive. Should be a small orientation board on the front. 3? rotary switches, fine, medium, coarse for position.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  6. #26
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    Oct 2015
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    215

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Look at the spindle drive. Should be a small orientation board on the front. 3? rotary switches, fine, medium, coarse for position.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    You sir just saved me from a lot of reading I did like you said start on the Middle pot and turned it one click. It was enough to make it almost there and then I had to do 4clicks on the fine adjustment. It might be a tiny bit off still but it changes tools like a boss now Thank you very much!

    Im finally ready for some manual milling passes. Will go to the store today to grab something to clamp down the workpiece with as a temp solution and try to mill some wood and alu.

  7. #27
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    I forgot to mention one problem I had. I started writing a short program to change tools. When executing the programs It always shortly went into sequence error. I could not figure out what it was and thought it was some sort of error in my program. I then went to MDI and just tested a G28 Z0 just to see if it accepted that. Same thing with sequence error. I left it that day to think some about it until next day. After some reading and a quick look at the diagnostic screen it indicated that I had a door interlock. Then it came to my mind that the door switches was not triggered when I closed the door. I made some wooden pieces and stuck them in there as a temp solution. Will sort it out later but for now it's good enough to do some small testing.

    The spindle problem that it would not align when I ran M19 command was solved by underthetire's solution. I adjusted these pots as described in the last post. Just wanted to post here in case anyone come across this thread later ^^


    Today I had to install a door in the opening. I wanted it to be removable as I need 140centimeters wide door to take in/out the machine. I made a frame around the leca(concrete) blocks and then a frame with 2x4" that I installed the door in. Now it's just temp closed off until I can get some more materials tomorrow. The door is a old door that is not insulated so I might have to glue some sheets of insulation to it. The rest of the room is concrete so it's not ideal at all for heating in the winter season here. It's not a very cold place but we can get periods with -10 for a couple of weeks and I can't allow this room to fall below 5-6 celcious and I would prefer stable 12-15 degrees celcius for accuracy. If it's possible to insulate it so I can keep 20 degrees I would be super happy



    I started look at what tooling that came with it. There are a drill holder, some BT30 chucks but this Sandvik facemill is prolly the one of highest value. Good to see that they prefered quality. Not sure what shape anything is in and I should prolly swap the BT30 studs for new ones as I have no clue how long they have been in.


    I also bought a USB->25pin Serial cable. I can't check if the wiring is as specified since it's all molded but can I ruin anything by trying it? I do have a old Dell computer that I used for my cnc router in the past and this has native serial port on the machine. I might try to set that up as a drip feed computer in the end since fanuc doesn't recommend doing this over USB interface.


    This is a short video of me testing the tool changer and testing milling on wood for the first time.
    http://<a href="https://www.youtube....AN8tl_U6O8</a>

  8. #28
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    Oct 2015
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    215

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Now I've built the removeable wall and inserted a door + insulation. Hopefully I can keep this thing at 10-15 degrees C through the winter and keep the room nice and dry.





    I had aproblem displaying the ladder. It was showing the ladder lines without anything else and it looked like something wasn't enabled. I was googling around reading various forums when I stumbled upon someone hitting the same problem as me and they found an adjustment on the screen to adjust the brightness. Never would have thought about that! I adjusted the upper pot at the rear of the monitor marked with "bright" on the PCB and the symbols and text became visible.


    And today I setup serial communication with an old laptop with native serial port. I configured it to 7bit, 2stop bit, hardware control and 2400baud. Soldered up a serial cable including a DB9 to DB25 adapter so it was just like the discription in the link below. I tripple checked the cable so I was sure I didn't mess up anything. When I connected it there was no problem dumping the parameters from the machine to NCLink software and same with programs. I could also dump programs into Hyperterminal. I downloaded a program from the machine and then I tried uploading it again without success. I enter "Edit mode" program screen and hit "input" so LSK shows down on the monitor. Then I try to upload from the computer without any luck. I have tried various X on/off (software handshake even if i have hardware), and both hardware handshake options without any luck. I then started reading forums again and found out that it could be related to the program edit key lock. The cable from that switch was actually not connected inside the cabinet so someone has been working on this before. I went into the ladder and checked G122.3 and I could enable/disable it (look at the picture for one darker line and one lighter in ladder) so it was working when I disconnected/connected this. Still no go when I tried uploading the program with both the cable on and off. Then I checked diagnostic and parameter 380 that should contain bit info on the program key lock but those where not switching on/off when I was connecting/disconnecting the cable. From what I can see in the ladder only that switch enables G122.3 so I'm not sure how to proceed on this. Anyone got suggestions?

    I used the settings from this manual except that I lowered the baud just to test if that made a difference on the transfer.

    http://www.oamk.fi/~eeroko/Opetus/Va...tion_Guide.pdf

  9. #29
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    Oct 2015
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    215

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    A nice fellow here on the forum sent me a PM with a lot of documentation for the fanuc om serial communication. I read through it and in one of the docs I found that parameter 0002 bit 2 should be set to 0 when its used. The exact text was "When RS-232-C Interface is used, set "0" to this parameter." and this bit is shown as irrelevant in the documentation I used before. I set it to 0 and it was working instantly sending and receiving. Really appreciate help like this. I would never have come this far on the machine without any help.

    Since I got that working I started testing memory limit. I used my tool change program and copied it over and over until I hit the limit. In my simple Gcode that was on line 728 and equivalent to 9.84KB. I forgot to check how many characters it was. It had 7 left it said but If I added any more it just throw out the memory full error.

    So I started looking at my memory board. From what I can see the only RAM installed is the NEC D43256AC-12L. This is 32KB chips and I count 4 installed. This should give me a total of 128KB and with 20M memory counting as approx 10KB that leaves 119KB for parameters and PCM settings. Doesn't that sound much? Is it likely that I got chips for 80M installed (40KB) and that there is 88KB ish dedicated for parameters? Anyways, can I just buy these chips, install and increase the memory amount to 320M without any problems? I have a backup of all parameters.

    Another thing I noticed. Most say that 80M is installed. If I take 320M-80M it's 240M of tape. I know that 20M=approx 10KB so that's 120KB of memory missing from 80 to 320M. One chip is 32KB and that adds up to 128KB. Looks like I got chips installed for 80M and a max possible amount of 320M with all chips installed. Does my reasoning make any sense?



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    41

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by m1n1m View Post
    A nice fellow here on the forum sent me a PM with a lot of documentation for the fanuc om serial communication. I read through it and in one of the docs I found that parameter 0002 bit 2 should be set to 0 when its used. The exact text was "When RS-232-C Interface is used, set "0" to this parameter." and this bit is shown as irrelevant in the documentation I used before. I set it to 0 and it was working instantly sending and receiving. Really appreciate help like this. I would never have come this far on the machine without any help.

    Since I got that working I started testing memory limit. I used my tool change program and copied it over and over until I hit the limit. In my simple Gcode that was on line 728 and equivalent to 9.84KB. I forgot to check how many characters it was. It had 7 left it said but If I added any more it just throw out the memory full error.

    So I started looking at my memory board. From what I can see the only RAM installed is the NEC D43256AC-12L. This is 32KB chips and I count 4 installed. This should give me a total of 128KB and with 20M memory counting as approx 10KB that leaves 119KB for parameters and PCM settings. Doesn't that sound much? Is it likely that I got chips for 80M installed (40KB) and that there is 88KB ish dedicated for parameters? Anyways, can I just buy these chips, install and increase the memory amount to 320M without any problems? I have a backup of all parameters.

    Another thing I noticed. Most say that 80M is installed. If I take 320M-80M it's 240M of tape. I know that 20M=approx 10KB so that's 120KB of memory missing from 80 to 320M. One chip is 32KB and that adds up to 128KB. Looks like I got chips installed for 80M and a max possible amount of 320M with all chips installed. Does my reasoning make any sense?


    Off topic . Did you pick this thing up for a song and dance? Looks like it will be worth all the headaches so far.

    Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6028

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by m1n1m View Post
    A nice fellow here on the forum sent me a PM with a lot of documentation for the fanuc om serial communication. I read through it and in one of the docs I found that parameter 0002 bit 2 should be set to 0 when its used. The exact text was "When RS-232-C Interface is used, set "0" to this parameter." and this bit is shown as irrelevant in the documentation I used before. I set it to 0 and it was working instantly sending and receiving. Really appreciate help like this. I would never have come this far on the machine without any help.

    Since I got that working I started testing memory limit. I used my tool change program and copied it over and over until I hit the limit. In my simple Gcode that was on line 728 and equivalent to 9.84KB. I forgot to check how many characters it was. It had 7 left it said but If I added any more it just throw out the memory full error.

    So I started looking at my memory board. From what I can see the only RAM installed is the NEC D43256AC-12L. This is 32KB chips and I count 4 installed. This should give me a total of 128KB and with 20M memory counting as approx 10KB that leaves 119KB for parameters and PCM settings. Doesn't that sound much? Is it likely that I got chips for 80M installed (40KB) and that there is 88KB ish dedicated for parameters? Anyways, can I just buy these chips, install and increase the memory amount to 320M without any problems? I have a backup of all parameters.

    Another thing I noticed. Most say that 80M is installed. If I take 320M-80M it's 240M of tape. I know that 20M=approx 10KB so that's 120KB of memory missing from 80 to 320M. One chip is 32KB and that adds up to 128KB. Looks like I got chips installed for 80M and a max possible amount of 320M with all chips installed. Does my reasoning make any sense?


    You will want a backup, but just adding chips won't help. You need to change a secret not to be said on this forum 900 parameter. It was common for Fanuc to have some extra memory on board, just not activated so they could charge for it. For special memory sizes, contact memory man on here.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  12. #32
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    Oct 2015
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    215

    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead406 View Post
    Off topic . Did you pick this thing up for a song and dance? Looks like it will be worth all the headaches so far.

    Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
    Lol. Sort of. But keep in mind that I’m not at all familiar with these machines and it would not even turn on so I could test it when I was looking at it. I spoke with a Fanuc tech that adviced me against it because it was impossible to know if I could get it running. I’m not celebrating yet as I have only done a test pass on wood. Once I get some clamping tools and a vice I will test accuracy and if it works properly on iron also. If I do get it working in the end it it won’t be to bad except for a crazy amount of hours spent troubleshooting and fiddling with things I don’t know how to do. But this is a hobby and I enjoy every minute of it

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    You will want a backup, but just adding chips won't help. You need to change a secret not to be said on this forum 900 parameter. It was common for Fanuc to have some extra memory on board, just not activated so they could charge for it. For special memory sizes, contact memory man on here.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    I got this parameter and wanted to do a test last night of increasing it but I didn’t dare to before I did som research on the memory chips. If I’m not way off on my math I should be able to increase it to 80M without adding hardware. I ordered the memory chips for $20 off eBay. Time will tell if it works to insert those chips or not. Some guy on this forum did the same thing on his OMA and got it working just by increasing the size so I figured that I’d give it a go.

    Last night I was doing some g code “air milling” testing to. I still don’t quite understand the use of G90-91-92-53 and G54 it seems so I got more reading to do

  13. #33
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    Oct 2015
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    So back to trying my memory calculations today. First thing I did was increasing it from 20M to 40M and the increase was as expected a doubling up to 20KB. I then upped it to 80M and the result was a doubling again to approx 40KB (39866) and 34376 characters not sure if that included the spaces or what. In my fusion 360 post I've removed spaces and comments to minimize it and it's really compact. I've added som screenshots of the process during testing below here. First picture showing the scary screen you get after changing the memory parameters (900 "secret ones"), the next is 40M setting with file size and the last is 80M with full file size/characters. I didn't push it further as I'm 100% sure that I don't have more memory installed so will let it sit at 80M until the chips arrive. I'm starting to belive that when I get those memory chips and can add up to 320M it might be enough for my work. That should add up to 150KB or 137000 characters if my math is correct. Not enoug for heavy surfacing but this is for hobby use so I can split files.. Time will tell. I might pursue that drip feed option anyways.






    Feeling lucky now so I ordered some workholding from arceurotrade today so I can test the machine with metal milling during christmas vacation. Prolly not the greatest and those paralells are of the cheapest sort but it will have to do for testing. Worst case they can be used for testing milling in :banana: They deserved some credits and mention for the nice priced vice also. Those that have it strongly recommend it for the price. It's not a kurt but it's not bad either from what 'I've heard.


    And from todays session in the mancave After the memory testing I tried fiddling with some tool changes. It seems that I first need to do a "G1 Z-100" to distance the spindle from Z0, then "M19" to orient spindle and "G30 Z0" to put Z at second reference point to allow tool change. Then I can do "T[xx]M06" to change to the tool needed. This adds a lot of code for each tool change. Is there really no way to program all this into the T[xx]M06 as a "macro"? Feels like waste of space to use this much code for each change. I guess I need to do spindle stop before M19 and start again after also.. Am I overthinking it? :P

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0576.jpg   IMG_0577.jpg   IMG_0578.jpg   IMG_0580.jpg  

    IMG_0581.jpg   IMG_0583.jpg   order.jpg  

  14. #34
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    If the machine has the macro option, yes you can assign M6 to a 8xxx or 9xxx program with all your needed stuff.
    G0G91G30Z0M19
    M9
    ETC.


    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  15. #35
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Cool. And I can just enable these macros or do i need additional ladder code or hardware to do it?

  16. #36
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    It's just a super secret 900 parameter. Just turn on custom macro B and you'll have all you need..

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  17. #37
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Sweet. Will have to go test that. Just have to get accept for sneaking off to the garage on a saturday night (chair)

    Will try to simplify tool change to this command: "G65 P1000 T02" . I left out some of the options like setting spindle speed and xyz speed after change and added some cancel stuff just to be sure. I will try to modify the post to set G90 and start spindle at correct speed after the change. Also I didn't set the work offset like in the guide since I'm not sure I would want to lock this macro just for G54. And if I don't change to another G54-G59 the program should still be in this WO after the macro. Well I'm just a newbie here so only time will tell if it works like I planned.. I still don't feel safe on my understanding of work offsets and tool offsets so for now I'm doing testing without anything clamped to the table and without tool in.

    macro code:

    01000 (tool change macro)
    M09 (stop coolant)
    G17 G40 G80 (xy plane, ccr, ccc)
    M5 (stop spindle)
    G91 G28 Z0 M19 (Move to machine 0, orient spindle for change)
    G30 Z0 (move to 2nd ref pos for tool change)
    T#20 M06 (change to selected tool)
    G91 G28 Z0 (Move to machine 0)
    G43 H#20 (tool length comp)
    M08 (coolant start)
    M99 (end of macro)


    Guide source: https://www.mmsonline.com/columns/a-...-change-format

  18. #38
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    I might personally change the m5 to m19, get rid of it in the g28 line, change g28 to g30, and get rid of the g30 line. Then possibly add a g28 at the end, just so the spindle is below the carousel, if you needed to stop it. Those can be a pia if the machine stops at carousel position!
    As you can probably tell, I used to work on those, both when tree kira, and later blue machines that were just kira. A lot easier to fix than the brothers!

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  19. #39
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    Tnx for the input. Is will adjust my code according to those tips if I can get macro working. I couldn’t set the parameters last night but will try again today.. Both macro a/b threw an error when I changed it but I didn’t have time to troubleshoot a lot at that hour ^^

    edit: trying to change macro a/b gives a 00 p/s alarm that it needs a power off. When I power back on the macro parameter is changed back to what it was.. I tried enabling helical interpolation that also is a 900 parameter and that worked out fine..

    Its not possible to change the M6 macro itself? Would be a lot easier to do that since I wouldn’t have to figure out how to change the post for tool changes. edit: Found info on this in another thread that I will try

  20. #40
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    Re: Kira VTC 30

    I found a forum where a user had the same problem as me regarding the 900 settings. According to them some of the parameters had to be changed over serial port. I will download a backup, change the parameters and upload them again to see if that's correct. Away at work this week tho so won't be before the weekend.

    Another question came up. There is a pump sitting on the side of the cabinet that runs shortly after power up but it doesn't run all the time. I suspect it's a lubrication pump and it's marked "showa" on the side with a pressure readout and a tank. The tank is 1/4th full now and I should order some oil to put on it so it doesn't run dry. I tried figuring out what oil it should have but there is no spec on lube pump oil in the manuals. I assume it's for the guided rails? Maybe ballscrews? Gearbox? The manuals tells me it's brush grease but that sounds to thick :P If this manual for a machine without that lube pump maybe? It says my serial number on the front page so I assume its the correct one.. Hard to know what I need to oil manually and what this pump takes care of without taking apart all covers and seeing where the oil leads go in. I found some on the linear guided rails for the bed when I had those covers off but I didn't pull apart to much on the spindle to have a look at the gearbox there.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails kira_docu - 4.jpg   kira_docu - 1.jpg   kira_docu - 2.jpg   kira_docu - 3.jpg  


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