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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > Commercial CNC Wood Routers > Chinese Machines > Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions
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  1. #121
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    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    xjdubber.. what do you mean by "RIO"?

    I had a proximity switch acting up.. it would "flicker" the input on the IO board... I believe it was a bad sensor...

  2. #122
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    Sep 2012
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    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    I have manual lube pumps.. that I depress when I want to lube...
    Automatic ones seem a bad idea.. if for example your machine sits there while turned on.. and not cutting.. because the timer usually injects the oil on a set interval of some many minutes...

    I use a heavy synthetic oil.. and it seems to be a bit of a problem to get some oil block to get oil.. while the lower ones may start to leak out...
    I work with wood, so the last thing I want is oil contamination on wood i'm going to paint or stain...

    I am using it carefully now.. but have considered changing over to grease fittings.. and lubbing manually... that way they all would get the same "squirt"...

    Anyone want to share their experience?

  3. #123
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    Mar 2006
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    52

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Thank you for your investigation Frank!

    No, it only has 1 input-board; but i think i know what is going on;
    this machine can be equiped with an automated load/unload feature. It pushes the material off the table and replaces it with the help of a few suction-cups, and it's using pushers and X/Y orientation pins to put the plate into position before turning on the vacuum. (i don't have this option though).

    The button you pointed out (watertap) powers the vacuum-pump (using a fat second relay controlled by the 16 channel output relay board) (controlled by M110 = on and M111 = off, according to the manufacturer, haven't tested it) and the air button next to it powers the dust suction. (also using a big relay steered by the 16 channel output board)

    What would be fine for me (I don't need an M code that controls the vacuum-table) is that i am going to rewire, and use the F5 button to control the vacuum, and change M110 into M8 and M111 into M9, so i can use both the M code and the button on the screen you pointed out for coolant.

    Can you see M110/M111 in the ladder file?

    About the oil on the lineair ball-circulating slides;
    The balls will circulate trough the linear block, so I don't think its an issue where the oil and or grease is as it will circulate trough the block.
    Well, gravity fights this; the balls aren't going in a cross-patern, so the lower 2 rows always get more oil than the upper 2 rows (if the upper even see oil) Using it vertical (as used on the Z axis) it works fine. When mounted flat, it should also work, but mounted at a 90 degree angle, such as on the X carriage, the above described issue will cause an uneven spread of the oil, and probably no lubrication for the upper 2 rows (depending on the amount and speed the oil is fed) Grease is less affected by gravity when injecting. It more or less follow the path of the least resistance in which gravity has a lower influence.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    10

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    I have an automatic oiler set up on my machine. It feeds manifolds that have individual needle screw ports that can be adjusted for the feed to each bearing. The automatic oiler has 2 adjustable timers on it. One timer is the delay between oiling cycles and the other timer is length of pump on cycle. The oiler does not operate when the E-stop is pressed, so I can leave the machine on and not worry about oil dripping all over the floor. We use Mobil Vactra Oil #2. (way lube)

  5. #125
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    Sep 2012
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    228

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Hi Mike..
    It sounds like your lube pump is set up a little more advanced than most of the timer pumps I seen...
    I don't like the idea of having to push E-stop to interrupt the counter...
    It seems like that would disengage all the servos.. and your could loose position.

    I thought I wanted one.. but even my machine maker didn't recommend it.. when I explained I was concerned about not running continuously for long periods.

    I USE " Super Lube 54632 Synthetic Gear Oil ISO 680 "

    It's a have liquid... I even added a little dye into it.. to see how well it flows through the lines and how well it gets to the blocks.

    I find that all liquid lube eventually starts to leak out.. and drain out of the "upper" mounted bearing blocks...
    I sometimes do multiple "pumps" to bring enough fluid back to the 'starving" blocks.. and thats where the color helps me..
    Messing with the adjusting screws on the distribution manifold resulted in limited improvement.

    I make sure to look for and wipe off any droplets forming on the moving X-axis carriage..

    I think I would prefer the grease ports in the future.

  6. #126
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    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Serum...
    I will have to look at your ladder again another nite...

    What you explained makes more sence now...
    But this is exactly an example, where you have a ladder set up for a machine with more features than you are using... and there is no GOOD reason for using a coolant button for something else...

    And they should have used other buttons for dust collector or vacuum.. and leave Coolant for it's proper/intended use...

    I don't see a M110 or M111 in there...
    You should be able to go into MDI mode.. and type in M110 or M111 and see if you can execute it.. and see what happens.
    At the least.. if it recognizes it as a valid command.. the green light should blink for a split second.

    I see m8 and M9 in there.. but they are not accomplishing anything.

    I would encourage you to determine what [F] buttons you are not using for vacuum or dust collection.. and ask them to reassign the vacuum function to that button.

    No offence, but this ladder seems a lot more "messy" and "busy" than I would expect.. so I'm a bit concerned about making changes and possibly causing glitches and problems that will affect other variables/operations.
    It's like there is a bit of a mess to UNDO in there.. before being able to Enable the M8/M9 button and mcodes to work with the logical keys...

    ALso.. Were you intending to control the vacuum or dust collection with GCODE?..
    I have 2 vacuum pumps.. .connected to two Contactors... connected to two switches that don't rely on the Output board.. essentially manual control..
    I even added a 3rd pump, contactor, and switch.. and 3 Colored LEDS to show when they are "ON"

  7. #127
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    Mar 2006
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    52

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    No, i don't need the m code to switch on/of the vacuum or the dust extraction, the now used buttons make some kind of sense, but i can life with any of the buttons, i don't care too much about that. I would like to be able to control the coolant by M9/M8. F5 is not used currently, except for switching on and off an unused relay. F3 is used for making the pneumatic X/Y coordinate pins to pop up/down(also controlled by the foot-pedal) F1 is for the dust-hood, and F2 drops the tool from the HSD.

    I'll try the M110/111, but i don't think they worked last time i tried them. Perhaps M8/M9 is currently active, i'll test that too.

    I requested the supplier to add a M8/M9 in the ladder and add an air-valve, but they came up with a separate button on the panel, not controlled by the Syntec, and no air-valve. Apparently, they had no clue on what to change.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    599

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankmali17 View Post
    xjdubber.. what do you mean by "RIO"?

    I had a proximity switch acting up.. it would "flicker" the input on the IO board... I believe it was a bad sensor...
    RIO = Remote IO instead of the IO being wired in some fashion directly from the controller it is networked trough a communications protocol to a remote location.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    599

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by serum View Post

    About the oil on the lineair ball-circulating slides;

    Well, gravity fights this; the balls aren't going in a cross-patern, so the lower 2 rows always get more oil than the upper 2 rows (if the upper even see oil) Using it vertical (as used on the Z axis) it works fine. When mounted flat, it should also work, but mounted at a 90 degree angle, such as on the X carriage, the above described issue will cause an uneven spread of the oil, and probably no lubrication for the upper 2 rows (depending on the amount and speed the oil is fed) Grease is less affected by gravity when injecting. It more or less follow the path of the least resistance in which gravity has a lower influence.
    Your right that where grease,waylube, or timed injection is a better option.

  10. #130
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    May 2017
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    10

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by serum View Post
    Just make the drawing with an X width of 43.760 and set te correct number of encoder pulses per mm to make sure 43.760 of motion on the X equals 1 turn of the rotary. I don't know what you want to machine, and if it needs to be in continues motion on the A axis? If that's the case you could modify your PP for 4th axis use, so it uses X as an A axis.
    QUOTE:I wanted to add that I have a 4th axis rotary head, but my syntec 6ma is only 3 axis. I have made mechanical locks for the x axis and can unplug the x axis and plug those into the rotary and it will turn, home and works fine. My question is, what is the best easiest way to utilize this? I program with GibbsCAM, but don't have a post processor that outputs rotary code. I have calculated the an x move of 43.760" will rotate the head exactly one revolution. I have been able to write simple programs for indexing parts, but not anything very complicated. For instance if I wanted a 90 degree move I would just program x to move 10.94"(43.760/4).
    So I have heard of people "wrapping the x axis, but am not sure if that is what to do or not.
    It would be fun to machine a horse face or something like that around a piece of wood or plastic, but not sure which direction to head. Any suggestions?

    Can you explain what I need to change to do this in a little more detail please?
    I have a round part in the 4th axis. My 4th axis is connected to my X axis wiring.
    I am programming X-axis moves to rotate the head.
    I need the head to rotate at a multiple of 3.9796" for the particular job I am running.
    So if my program says to move X1.0, the axis would actually move 3.9796". (If as it were flat)
    I realize that this multiple factor would change with different diameter round parts, but I am just trying to figure how to machine this one for now.
    Mike

  11. #131
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    Mar 2006
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    52

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Great. made some pictures of the cabinet today, but left the camera at work.

    ok, so you have motion in your 4th axis, and left the motion per inch untouched. In that case I would simple scale down the part in X 3.9796:1? so if it is 1" now, you should make it 0,2512815358 on X.

    Wrapping is quite simple, but when making more complicated 3d parts, it's a hazzle. With simple engraving it would work just fine.

  12. #132
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    May 2017
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    10

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by serum View Post
    Great. made some pictures of the cabinet today, but left the camera at work.

    ok, so you have motion in your 4th axis, and left the motion per inch untouched. In that case I would simple scale down the part in X 3.9796:1? so if it is 1" now, you should make it 0,2512815358 on X.

    Wrapping is quite simple, but when making more complicated 3d parts, it's a hazzle. With simple engraving it would work just fine.
    Ok, I thought you were discussing changing a parameter for the encoder count to do this. I actually need to multiply my X by 3.9796.
    Kind of a hassle with the software we use. Autodesk Inventor and GibbsCam. It is difficult to just scale only one axis.
    I can't program in rotary, so I am kind of lying to the software. My X moves are turned into rotary moves, and with the particular diameter I am machining, I need to multiply my X by 3.9796.
    I have left the Syntec motion per X set up still as if it were a flat part. I have not changed any parameters.
    I guess I am asking, how much trouble is it and what do I have to do to change the encoder count?

  13. #133
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    Mar 2006
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    52

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    I heard from my manufacturer that this was set in parameter 161 for Y, i'd expect these settings for the other axis are close, but i have now idea if this is correct, you can set these parameters for each and individual axis. I understood that the syntec also has a direct feedback from the yaskawa driver on how many pulses the decoder has produced. So perhaps you need to change more than 1 parameter.

  14. #134
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    Sep 2012
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    228

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    I am going to say that I see a lot of problems.. and complications with trying to lie to the machine.
    If you are going to only use it for the rotary work... that is one thing...
    But if you are thinking of switching back to "Normal" 3 axis Router operations.. that is going to be a problem.

    Otherwise.. I think you are turning the machine into a "Lathe"...

    I think you are talking about machining a 3d face of a "horse" or something.. Which I think is better to approach this with a 3-axis Router with a Rotary attachment...
    The way you rigged up the machine.. and figured out how many inches of movement you needed on the X axis for a 90degree or 360 degree rotation.. seems to allow for manual programming.
    I would use something like Aspire for 3D machining.. and it has CAM built in for the GCODE... When I machined something simpler like a carving in FLAT Stock (MDF) I had as much as 500,000 lines of Code created by the CAM... I don't see how I would want to attempt to program that by hand.

    It just seems like a lot or steps and opportunities for all kinds of errors could happen.

    No offence Meant Mike...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Serum,
    Any luck with the machine manufacturer, in updating/ straightening out your LADDER?

  15. #135
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    Mar 2006
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    52

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    No, updating the ladder won't happen by the manufacturer, The M110 M111 doesn't work. I'm fine with the buttons as used now for the vacuum/dust extraction. M7/M8/M9 don't do anything now either, so i guess it would be conveniënt to simple make the M8/M9 relate to the F5 button with the now unused relay that is clicking (remaining on untill F5 is pressed again)

  16. #136
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    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Serum, Would they be willing to do it for a fee?

    That is what sucks about the process... I got a lot of "No-this" , "NO-that" answers from the people I bought too...
    They keep sending me emails to buy more machines... but hardly take care of what they already sold me...
    That is why I tell people to go and buy machines this route, only if they are themselves very savvy/competent CNC machinists.
    I just confirmed with HSD, another item that was not set up correctly on the spindle.


    SERUM... are you familiar with MLCEdit.exe ... it's what i was able to get for looking at the ladder.
    How important is it to you.. for that M8/M9?
    Because it will be a very big task to make that happen... since you first have to reverse engineer what the author started.

  17. #137
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    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    I just wanted to Report, that SYNTEC came through for me...
    I was struggling to get help in ordering/buying the Input and Output Boards I wanted for some Machine development I'm working on.

    it took many attempts.. but recently, Syntec out of California was able to get me what I wanted.. and the cables I needed.

    We have a full work load now for our main bread-earning work.. so it development is paused.. while we are collecting and researching parts.

    But I have to say.. that I am liking the controller more as time goes on :-)

  18. #138
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    Jan 2018
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    38

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Frank I'm really glad to hear that everything is working out for you. Opening a branch in the U.S. has greatly increased out ability to support our clients and end users on this side of the world, and if you ever need support or parts we will continue to provide our best.

    Serum I have some time on my hands if you want to make changes on your ladder to customize your machine a bit. PM me your email contact so we can discuss exactly what you want to get done and I can look into it.

  19. #139
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    Sep 2012
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    228

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Hello Syntec Engineer...
    Maybe you can suggest something, or lead me in the right dirrection.
    I am looking for a C=bit, maybe and S-bit.. or any other way.. to control an Output.
    I want the Output to come ON.. When the Spindle is in the OFF state.. AND there is no machining being executed...
    This way, I can control a pneumatic valve to cut-off the air to the spindle...
    I want to set it up in a "fail-safe" logic way.. Similar to the way an E-stop switch is..
    This way if something fails or a circuit is broken.. it will no activate the valve.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Serum...
    Did you make any progress on the M8/M9 turning on that output relay?

  20. #140
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    Sep 2017
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    8

    Re: Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

    Hello Syntec Engineer,

    We bought 6 CNC machines from a Chinese Supplier that use Syntec Controllers. I had serious doubt (still have) that those were Syntec Controller (no PLC but a WIndows CE based Open Source). Your company didn't respond to our request but the supplier provided Receipts and a letter from Syntec (in Chinese) that they are genuine. Does this screen looks like yours? The model they claim is 10MF-8E.

    Note: I have checked the control panel, looks like they use your hardware.

    Also, do you know why we have the loss pulse issue (I am suspecting a hardware limit issue). I have asked for help in Machinist forum also.


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