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  1. #1
    greenene Guest

    soundproofed shed for cnc router

    I've seen many ideas on how to build a soundproof enclosure for desktop cnc routers, but hardly anything about small, yet highly effective workshop rooms for working with loud equipment.
    While an enclosure would do the job, I think it takes away from some of the practical aspects of being close to the machine and sometimes actually managing the work pieces as they are being cut. In my case, I cut many small nested pieces and need to hold the pieces down with a foam tipped stick to make sure that the tool does not push them out. I have tried tabs and do use onion skin, but I still need to keep a watch on them while on the final onion skin cut. And a few times, I've had to deal with real time emergencies, such as the tool digging into the work mysteriously.
    Thus my need to think about a small shed that soundproofed. It will be in the garage, the shed design would be more like a room. What most sound studios don't show is the need to have dust suction as well as good intake and out take baffles to deal with air flow without compromising sound proofing.
    As with all projects, it's always better to take someone else's design rather than doing it from scratch. But is a music sound room what I am looking for, or just applying the basic soundproofing principles for, let's say, generators, be more appropriate?



    Could use some ideas.
    tony

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    5717

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    The goal in a music room is to eliminate all stray sounds, the goal with a generator is to just quiet it down to a reasonable sound level. So I would say the generator soundproofing would be what you want. Building a shed and insulating the walls with common fiberglass insulation and sheeting with sound deadening board would probably get you what you want. A closed cell ''foam rubber'' like material (egg crate mattress cover) would work for insulation also as long as it's covered with something (tarp material?) because it will pick up sawdust like crazy. We used the closed cell foam method to go on the inside of punch press enclosures to quiet them down. My router is in an insulated shop and once the doors are shut, it's quiet outside. Inside, you have to wear hearing protection.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    413

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Quote Originally Posted by greenene View Post
    But is a music sound room what I am looking for, or just applying the basic soundproofing principles for, let's say, generators, be more appropriate?

    Could use some ideas.
    tony
    Just the basic soundproofing......

    All of the multi-million dollar yachts use Loaded Mass Vinyl Insulation to keep the nasties at bay. Pricey, but fabulous stuff.

    Question is, can you afford a multi-million dollar shed ?

    SOUNDOWN COMPOSITE INSULATION VINYL/FOAM, SOUNDOWN CORP IVF1005MNSFT12

    I'd be tempted to try my own variety of components to simulate it, if for example I was going to fill stud spaces with something. I'd put up an inch of regular fiberglass insulation, a layer of rubber roof skin, another 1" layer of insulation (maybe the blue jeans stuff), a pass of reflectix, another rubber roof skin and so on. Certainly do not relay on a wall full of pink foam to suppress noise because it tends to act as a sounding board.

    Build the shed with 2x6 walls for better results.

    I'd worry about the air handling noise once there was an adequate building in place. One way to deal with that is to exit any air as high up via a stack as you can.
    Chris L

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    540

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Might be a lot cheaper and less trouble to get a quieter spindle/router or build an enclosure?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    35538

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Might be a lot cheaper and less trouble to get a quieter spindle/router or build an enclosure?
    He is building an enclosure. Just one he can fit into.

    Depending on what he is doing, cutting noise can be much louder than any router fan noise, even with a near silent spindle.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    3920

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Sound management is an art/science that frankly benefits from experience. The little bit I've done involves controlling radiated and conducted noise.

    Conducted noise can be thought of as any material that can transmit vibrations from the machine and in doing so radiate noise from the induced vibrations. For example a machine sitting on a wooden floor can cause that floor to Vibrate and thus radiate noise. For these sorts of issues, isolation materials are made to dampen the transmission of that noise. Any of the catalog companies serving the machining or manufacturing industries will have various types of isolation materials for machine feet, electrical and air conduits and so forth.

    For radiated noise you have all sorts of issues, even the materials the ceiling is made of can impact how noise bounces around. While this isn't the direction you want to go a machine enclosure is the best place to start to mitigate the noise it produces. It is sort of like handling the generation of electrical noise in a control cabinet, it is far easier to deal with the noise at the source than it is to address it after in leaves the device creating the noise.

    Now that being said if you want to build a room that noise wont leave you have to be willing to invest in a bit of expense to do so. In a nut shell you need walls and ceilings that don't vibrate and thus allow noise to migrate out of the room. Different frequencies will transmit though materials differently but I might suggest concrete block as a cheap solution that can moderate a good portion of the sound coming from a router.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    6618

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    I did manage decent sound proofing with just a good R value of typical insulation for my shop. The only machine you can hear running in the shop with the doors closed is the compressor. It will soon be outside with a purpose built small building to house it.
    I intend to use Rock wool for that job.
    It works better than typical fiberglass or foam panel insulation.
    Lee

  8. #8
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    May 2005
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    3920

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    One thing to consider is that sound proof rooms suck when you yell help! Just something that came to mind for other reasons.

  9. #9
    greenene Guest

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    One thing to consider is that sound proof rooms suck when you yell help! Just something that came to mind for other reasons.
    good point.
    tony

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    5516

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Homasote, or Roxul - stone wool... Glue it to the framing, don't use nails.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    5516

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    For the onion skinning - use a larger tool to go down to onion skin level, then switch to a smaller tool to do the cutout.

  12. #12
    greenene Guest

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    For the onion skinning - use a larger tool to go down to onion skin level, then switch to a smaller tool to do the cutout.
    Thanks, I'll try that.
    tony

  13. #13
    greenene Guest

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Today I took a sound test and it read 83db while cutting. Interestingly enough, some 7 feet behind there's a bathroom, and inside the bathroom, with the door closed, the sound is at 70db. This is a bathroom with no insulation and an ordinary door. This leads me to assume that insulating a small shed can easily bring down the db level at around 65, which would be great. The challenge, of course, is ventilation and some cooling for the summer months.
    tony

  14. #14
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    Mar 2017
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    926

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Quote Originally Posted by greenene View Post
    good point.
    tony
    Without sound proofing, the noise might drown out any cries for help so you'd die (or get hideously deformed) either way. If safety is the concern then it points back to building a sound-proof enclosure instead of sound-proofing the whole shed.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2004
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    6618

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    That is why you keep a cell phone on you.
    Lee

  16. #16
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    926

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    I've researched this topic for my build and there is no real need to improvise or cut corners on sound-proofing materials. Sound proofing or damping pads and foams etc are usually cheap and easy to find. They come in various forms too including pads, tiles, rolls, puttys and sprays.

    Having an enclosure would not prevent any necesary access to the machine. You have a door to the enclosure for access when the machine is off. I can't imagine anyone thinks it's a good idea to stick your head in the machine when it's running.... you put in a small window so you can see what you need to.

    For my sound-proof enclosure, I'm using low cost t-slot extrusions for the frame with sheet metal walls lined with sound proofing foam (pyramid shape) pads.

    A key benefit of an enclosure instead of sound-proofing the room is that it protects your hearing... I don't want to need ear muffs all day...

    I would not bother reading too much into sound meters for this. The pitch of the noise can make more of a difference than the db reading (which is unlikely to be accurate anyway). I see this (or hear this) with my air rifles. I have two which produce very similar db readings but one seems quiet while the others causes physical pain in my ears with every shot.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    3920

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    I've researched this topic for my build and there is no real need to improvise or cut corners on sound-proofing materials. Sound proofing or damping pads and foams etc are usually cheap and easy to find. They come in various forms too including pads, tiles, rolls, puttys and sprays.
    There are lots of options and this is partly due to stricter regulations demanding reduced exposures to noise in industry. You just have to look.
    Having an enclosure would not prevent any necesary access to the machine. You have a door to the enclosure for access when the machine is off. I can't imagine anyone thinks it's a good idea to stick your head in the machine when it's running.... you put in a small window so you can see what you need to.
    Actually this is very size dependent if you need an overhead crane or fork lift entry point full enclosures become a problem . Bu in general I agree Enclosures are far better for the suer than nothing. In smaller machines enclosures are trivial.
    For my sound-proof enclosure, I'm using low cost t-slot extrusions for the frame with sheet metal walls lined with sound proofing foam (pyramid shape) pads.

    A key benefit of an enclosure instead of sound-proofing the room is that it protects your hearing... I don't want to need ear muffs all day...

    I would not bother reading too much into sound meters for this. The pitch of the noise can make more of a difference than the db reading (which is unlikely to be accurate anyway). I see this (or hear this) with my air rifles. I have two which produce very similar db readings but one seems quiet while the others causes physical pain in my ears with every shot.
    Actually this is why I responded, wear your hearing protection when shooting! I did a bit of reloading in the past and went out into the backyard range to test a new load and left the hearing protection behind. In that one instance I permanently damaged hearing in my left ear. So take it from someone that learned the hard way, always wear protection. Otherwise you will have a nasty ringing in your ears until you die.

  18. #18
    greenene Guest

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    We may be talking cents instead of dollars. Building a small shed does not necessarily mean that it will cost considerably more than a good enclosure, or that I have to stay inside the shed when the machine is running. In fact, it may provide the best of both worlds.
    My thought about a shed pertains to the simplicity of it all. For example, I build two walls next to the two existing garage walls. Add a ceiling and keep the overall dimensions small enough to provide ample room for the router, the dust unit, and me. I always wear headphone and respirator protection. If I were to leave the machine working alone, perhaps a web camera outside the shed would give me the view.
    I have not ruled out the enclosure; I am using this forum to get some sound thoughts and opinions from folks who are doing it or have done it.
    At this point of my analysis, perhaps it's the ventilation and heating and cooling( for me) that might be the biggest obstacle.
    tony

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    3920
    Quote Originally Posted by greenene View Post
    We may be talking cents instead of dollars. Building a small shed does not necessarily mean that it will cost considerably more than a good enclosure, or that I have to stay inside the shed when the machine is running. In fact, it may provide the best of both worlds.
    By the time you are done you will have built a real "shed". In quotes because what you are really doing is building a room with in a room. This is actually seen in industry often for a reversal of function as the room is a quiet escape for management.
    My thought about a shed pertains to the simplicity of it all. For example, I build two walls next to the two existing garage walls. Add a ceiling and keep the overall dimensions small enough to provide ample room for the router, the dust unit, and me.
    Another possibility is to build a shop extension. By the time you are done the little extra cost would be trivial. You gain more space while cutting noise.
    I always wear headphone and respirator protection. If I were to leave the machine working alone, perhaps a web camera outside the shed would give me the view.
    Web cams are great. They get mounted all over the place in big automation projects. Cheap and only requiring a little extra lighting at times.
    I have not ruled out the enclosure; I am using this forum to get some sound thoughts and opinions from folks who are doing it or have done it.
    At this point of my analysis, perhaps it's the ventilation and heating and cooling( for me) that might be the biggest obstacle.
    tony
    The HVAC issue is easy to handle on an extension, just mount a through wall HVAC unit.

  20. #20
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    Mar 2017
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    926

    Re: soundproofed shed for cnc router

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    There are lots of options and this is partly due to stricter regulations demanding reduced exposures to noise in industry. You just have to look.

    Actually this is very size dependent if you need an overhead crane or fork lift entry point full enclosures become a problem . Bu in general I agree Enclosures are far better for the suer than nothing. In smaller machines enclosures are trivial.


    Actually this is why I responded, wear your hearing protection when shooting! I did a bit of reloading in the past and went out into the backyard range to test a new load and left the hearing protection behind. In that one instance I permanently damaged hearing in my left ear. So take it from someone that learned the hard way, always wear protection. Otherwise you will have a nasty ringing in your ears until you die.

    No arguments from me about protecting my hearing. I have seen what machine noise did to my farther' hearing after working in factories for years. It's one of the reasons why sound-proofing is a priority. I think it is better than relying on wearing ear muffs all day. It's also more considerate to others who are close by.

    BTW, if you like target shooting at home (like me) and you have sensitive hearing (also like me) then I highly recommend trying a quality PCP air rifle if you haven't already. Most of them have built in baffles these days so they are quiet enough to shoot without hearing protection. My Taipan Mutant (my main hunting rifle) is so quiet that my neighbor can't hear it even when he's in his garden. It will put 10 shots inside 1/2" at 50 yards too. Awesome for small game hunting.

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