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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    My Experience with Centroid Acorn

    I received an Acorn yesterday, and a few short hours later was putting it back in its box, to be returned for a refund, after suffering the most absolutely appalling "support" from the moderator of their customer forum, "cnckeith". Here's what happened:

    After connecting the board to my PC, I installed the software. Which did not work.... After Setup.exe finishes, it launches the "Mill Wizard", which is their hardware configuration program. The Wizard put up a dialog telling me it could not proceed, because the firmware on the board needed to up updated. I followed the instructions to perform the update, which did not work... So, I made a post on the forum, asking how to proceed.

    While I waited for a response, I decided to try un-installing and re-installing the software to a different location. I had first installed it on my E: drive. This time, I installed it on my C: drive. This time it worked, so it was clear they have a bug in their installer that does not correctly handle installing on other than the C: drive, even though the software allows it to be done. So, I made a post on the forum pointing out this problem.

    Next, I tried just poking around in the software, to see what was there. I tried to get into the configuration screens, to see what options were available. But, getting into the configuration pages REQUIRES a password, and I was not given a password, nor could I find ANY mention of what the default password is, or how to change it in ANY of the many documents I had downloaded from their website. The user manual DID mention that there WAS a password, and that it could be changed by changing parameter 42. But, you can't change parameter 42 unless you HAVE the current password!

    So, back to the forum, to make a post asking "What is the password"? I was directed to a 10 minute video, which I watched (even though I HATE learning by watching videos!). The video showed how to change the password by editing parameter 42, and mentioned, in passing, that the default password was "137". I decided to change the password to something I would remember. I tried SEVERAL different 3-digit values, and NONE worked. Finally, I remembered that the video showed how to enter a 4-digit value. So, I tried a 4-digit value, and it worked! So, back to the forum, to inform them that the software would NOT accept ANY 3-digit password, and was told I was wrong, and was told I shouldn't even be TRYING to change the password by editing the parameter, but should instead use the Wizard to do it! Never mind that the guy that told me this was the very same "cnckeith" who made the video showing how to do it by changing the parameter!.

    So, I went to the Wizard, which is a completely separate program. I found the page that allows setting the password, and was surprised to see that it told me the current password was "1000", and that password protection was turned OFF! In fact, the password at that time was "1234", and it was very definitely turned ON! So, back to the forum to report another bug.

    I started to work on figuring out how to connect the board to the machine, so I downloaded the "Acorn Specification Manual" to study the I/O specs, and make sure I understood how to connect everything without blowing something up. But, I found the diagram of the board did not match my board, and there were several inconsistencies in the document ,such as referring to the DB-25 connector as H4 on one page, and as H6 on another. Back to the forum to report that the "Specification Manual"contained several errors, and did not match the hardware I received. In response, I receive a, frankly, rather snotty message that I was obviously looking at the v2 manual, while I had a v3 board. I pointed out that I had downloaded the manual from the Acorn page of THEIR website, and was not even aware that there WERE v2 and v3 boards! This same thing happened a month ago, when I downloaded a "G-code/M-code manual" from the same page. When I raised questions about the content of that manual, which referred to sections of the document which didn't even exist, I was treated as if it were MY fault for downloading the ONLY document I could find that seemed to contain the information I needed. Interesting that today, he POSTED an updated Specification Manual with all the errors I pointed out fixed!

    I moved on to trying to understand how to configure the Home/Limit switches so they all went to a single input, rather than requiring a separate input for each axis, consuming half of the very few available Acorn inputs. To, back to the forum again, to ask how to set this up. The answer from cnckeith was "Use HomeAll". NO explanation of where to "use HomeAll", or what the behavior would be. So, I asked "Where is this documented?", and "What does it do?". The response was "Search the forum", which I had already done. Searching the forum for "HomeAll" turned up exactly 4 hits, TWO of which were in MY post! The other two were totally unrelated to what I was asking.

    Back to the forum again, to ask for more information, and I was told, by cnckeith, that "Perhaps the Acorn is not for you."! I asked for clarification as to why my questions were apparently considered unreasonable, and received something close to a rant,from cnckeith that the answers to my questions were "right in front of me" the whole time, and he then accused me of "throwing rocks" for reporting blatant bugs in their software and documentation.

    To say I was stunned would be an understatement! Here I was TRYING to work through the installation of this board and software, running face-first into one bug after another, finding one problem after another in the documentation, getting little or no help from the Centroid "support" person, and then being told it was MY fault I couldn't make it work. I have NEVER been treated so shabbily by any of the hundreds of vendors I've worked with over the years.

    I stepped away for a while, and when I came back, found the entire thread had been deleted, and my forum account closed!

    Now, you could well think this was just my problem, but within a few hours I heard from several other people who were watching that thread, some of who have received or witnessed similar treatment themselves, and so far everyone I've talked agrees "cnckeith" was WAY out of line.

    So, my advice is "Caveat Emptor". Take this for whatever it's worth, but If you're considering an Acorn, you might want to think twice, because without support (and that forum is your ONLY source of support for the Acorn) the hardware could well become little more than an expensive paperweight. Needless to say, neither I, nor my customers, will EVER be looking at Centroid again, nor will quite of few people I know who were planning to follow my lead.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    386

    My Experience with Centroid Acorn

    I guess it's PathPilot then. PathPilot has a great support forum where everyone respected . Now all that's left is to get your ATC working with PathPilot.

    Steve

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1145

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Hiya Ray, I could have told you that was going to happen. I had the same type experience long ago and see it has not changed over time. AND about 100 others will agree with you.

    Also you need to pay attention to their software pricing tiers. They can get into your wallet HARD if you are not paying attention to what you need and what you are actually getting with each tier.

    Just a thought, (;-) TP

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by vmax549 View Post
    Hiya Ray, I could have told you that was going to happen. I had the same type experience long ago and see it has not changed over time. AND about 100 others will agree with you.

    Also you need to pay attention to their software pricing tiers. They can get into your wallet HARD if you are not paying attention to what you need and what you are actually getting with each tier.

    Just a thought, (;-) TP
    Good to see you're still out there and kicking! :-)

    The Acorn is their almost hobby-level controller, so SW is a one-time license, for $99. Their pricing on the product, at least, is reasonable. Their support is something else entirely...

    I have relayed my experience to a couple of their executives...

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve303 View Post
    I guess it's PathPilot then. PathPilot has a great support forum where everyone respected . Now all that's left is to get your ATC working with PathPilot.

    Steve
    PP support for the ATC should not be a big deal at all. All I need is the time and energy to get it running on one of my machines...

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1145

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    You could always try UCCNC it is getting better every day now. AND it is down to earth simple to setup or modify.

    (;-) TP

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1753

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    probably figuring out the hobby market is hard...

    sam

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1145

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    HI Ray yes $99 license but what exactly do you get for that $99 and what exactly does $499 version do that the $99 does not do.

    (;-) TP

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by vmax549 View Post
    HI Ray yes $99 license but what exactly do you get for that $99 and what exactly does $495 version do that the $99 does not do.

    (;-) TP

    I don't recall what the difference was, but it was something I had no interest in.

    I will have a UC400-ETH for testing in a few days.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by vmax549 View Post
    HI Ray yes $99 license but what exactly do you get for that $99 and what exactly does $499 version do that the $99 does not do.

    (;-) TP
    They've made some changes since the original release. They now just have the Pro for $99, and a digitizing bundle for $399, that mostly adds their advanced probing functions.
    They realized that there software was too limited in what it could do, so they added features to the Pro, and lowered the price of the Digitizing.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Ray,

    Sorry for your experience, but I must say my experience is the complete opposite. I am a newbie to CNC and knew nothing going into conversion of my mill. Between published manuals and schematics, Centroid's support line (Keith in particular), the Acorn forum, instructional videos, and the community members at large, I've received immense support in understanding the fundamentals of CNC and was able to build a 3-axis CNC around the Acorn controller without a hitch.

    I recently completed a video of my adventures you might want to check out.
    https://youtu.be/mNW8uwVS9rU

    So again, sorry you had a bad experience. I could not be happier with my choice of the Acorn.

    Enjoy,
    Mike

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Well I certainly hate to see terrible support and censoring their own forums this way. I am basically locked in at this point though.
    I have bought the other things I need and have a good plan, just need a little time to implement it.
    I will be sure to post support issues here where they should remain.
    Hoping that I don't have any. I am so looking forward to getting rid of another Mach 3 controlled machine.
    I will be down to one at that point. Only my plasma cutter.
    It seems to be doing great with the CRP plasma system on it. My CRP 4824 Pro, not as flawless. The issues seem to be tied to the communication between the computer and the ESS though. Mostly. Not all.
    I did try a different computer with the same results. Every now and then it just throws an ESS communication error message.
    I think I will take a chance on it and sooner rather than later in case I do need to return it for cause.

    My thanks to Ray for relating this as well. It's a real shame.
    Lee

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1762

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Ray...
    Sorry about your bad experience. As a counterpoint, I would offer up that if you follow the instructions, both printed and on video, and accept the default installation, accept the default password getting an Acorn up and running is pretty straightforward. Or at least that's what the other 499 of us that have purchased an Acorn in the past few months think. I am sure that there are a number of bugs to work out Your may end up being some of them.

    Samco may have a point, the DIY nut is tough to crack. It really sucks to argue with people that refuse to follow instruction. Tech support is even tougher. Imagine that every day you must sit and listen to people list 100 things they swear they are doing right, just so you can ask 3 or 4 questions to find out what they were doing wrong!

    And Ray, for the future: Look at the honey and vinegar idiom. Few should expect top shelf tech support when your post is a page long rant listing the things that THEY did wrong. Sounds like vinegar to me.
    Gary Campbell CNC Technology & Training
    GCnC411 (at) gmail.com www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1/videos

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Holy crap dude, sounds like you need to pump the brakes a little bit. So you rushed into getting it to run, did not like the information your getting about setting it up and how to wire it up but dont like videos on how to do it? I understand you had problems and it can be frustrating but your looking at a hobby board and the forum takes a little time to answer your questions. From my personal experiences for the year i have been running the acorn on my mill ive had great experience with the board, software, and help from centroid.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Hi Ray,
    I must say i have had the opposite experience.
    I have found with a little patience to get any issues i had resolved.
    I have been using centroid controlled machines for years.
    I have some hobby project machines and one surfboard shaping machine i sold where i went from mach 3 to Planet cnc and finally to Acorn
    Acorn is simple doing a better job

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    2

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Hi Ray,

    Sometimes it's hard to wrap your head around something new - I get that. It took me a while to shake off all of my old Mach3 preconceptions about how things are supposed to work. But once I did, it became a lot easier to understand the Centroid software.

    I'm really sorry you are so upset and frustrated, but you're missing out on a great product with Centorid. I've worked with "real" CNC machines for about 20 years and I've also built several (Mach3) DIY mills and lathes. I converted over to Centroid and I have no regrets! In fact, I'm super impressed with the system - the control has worked great for me and I've found the installation process is really streamlined. No other company publishes detailed schematics like Centroid. Currently, I'm running it on a Mill and a Lathe and it is working really well. Zero problems.

    Cnckeith is a good guy. I've only had positive interactions with him.

    The Centroid Forum crowd is really cool - those guys have helped me out quite a bit. I know there's guys on there that would be happy to help you as long as you keep it positive and on point.

    I hope things go better for you in the future.

    -Franco

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    10

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    I got my Acorn board very early on and used it to convert a MicroKinetics machine. The MK software was primitive to say the least and was shy on features in a huge way.

    The Acorn conversion was pretty straight forward and most of my problems were my own doing, mostly lack of knowledge on the CNC controls. The help I needed came from Centroid and yes, keith will try to get you to RTFM and I did this with success. The password thing is in place to keep people who shouldn't be, from fiddling with settings. I asked what it was and was told the number without any problems. For the most part the configurations can all be accomplished with the Wizard. My early experiences with the software was prior to the wizard being introduced. The only time I needed to dig into the configurations was when I added a digitizing probe to the system.

    The system is pretty critical when it comes to the PC and they wisely decided to limit the OS support to Win10 for consistency sake. My day job is running technical support for a PC based automotive scan tool company and we support multiple versions of Windows, it is a real headache sometimes.

    Dropped connections were pretty much eliminated by using quality well shielded Ethernet cords and good grounding practices. I have had some issues with the Acorn not starting up and this was fixed on the next release of the board, mine was one of the first released.

    The software is a joy to use and I spent very little time trying to make it work and more time making parts. My experiences with the support were very good and offers of using Team Viewer to assist were made. I have no complaints on either the product or the assistance I received from keith
    Beevo - Arizona
    Metal Deformationist

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1856

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Well what's wrong with saying to a person look here or this page in the manual here the customer is always correct, if that person works for Centroid that's disgusting what they did getting people to rtfm when you work for them no that's not good enough.

    A forum member saying that, that's fine, A company person no way is that a fine thing to say.

    1 lost customer is how many in the future sinces ray was going to get it working for the novakon machine's and his ATC
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    10

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by daniellyall View Post
    Well what's wrong with saying to a person look here or this page in the manual here the customer is always correct, if that person works for Centroid that's disgusting what they did getting people to rtfm when you work for them no that's not good enough.

    A forum member saying that, that's fine, A company person no way is that a fine thing to say.

    1 lost customer is how many in the future sinces ray was going to get it working for the novakon machine's and his ATC
    Well I should also mention that it was more than "read the manual" he always pointed me to the area or pages where I needed to find the information. It was done in a much nicer tone than I really conveyed in my message, so my apologies on this part.
    Beevo - Arizona
    Metal Deformationist

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7063

    Re: Considering the Centroid Acorn?

    Am I the only one that finds it very curious that we suddenly have quite a few Centroid fans who have never posted to the forum before, suddenly posting on this one topic?

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