[SEK22Hornet]

Spent some time checking things out to see exactly what hardware I need to put this motor back together. Three holes are stripped and have had epoxy used to try to put things back together. Ended up tapping these for 6-32 since I need to install spacers in them and I have some 6-32 spacers. I also noticed something that could not be good - take a close look at the blue wires in these photos. Looks like these are the brake wires - one has obviously been pinched - doubt that was a good thing!

[sportybob]

The brake wires go down to terminal 63 and 64 ohm check the wires

[SEK22Hornet]

Got the motor reassembled today and wired the phases and commutator encoder portions back up - they had labeled the terminal number where each wire came from on the motor board with a piece of tape with the pcb terminal number - While putting the motor back together my wife helped me write down the wire colors from the actual encoder to the PCB and the PCB label for the function. The +12 power wire from the servo drive to the encoder was labeled pin 17 (from memory - don't take this as 100%) but there was no wire from that terminal to the encoder - it had no connection. There is another pin that is labeled Encoder +12 that did go to the correct pin of the encoder. There was no wire in the pigtail with the same number so it is looking like there was no power wired to the encoder when they installed the rebuilt servo motor. I will be wiring power to the machine tomorrow if i have time and should soon see if the motor spins now (after I connect power to the correct terminal) A friend of mine helped me ohm out several of the wires directly - including the brake, sine one of those had lost it's number tag. Hopefully the problem was just a miss wire all along. Getting a lot closer!

[rl49]

Hi Hornet, the encoder wires come from the z axis plug on the card cage not the drive card terminals , Looking at the schematic Sporty bob sent +12 VDC Pin J2-4 from Z Axis drive card goes to #17 Hall effect switch terminal on motor.
Encoder +5 VDC from x card cage plug pin #8 to Z axis servo motor encoder #10

I would also hook up 24 vdc to brake from external supply to release brake to make sure your missing hardware is not down inside motor before you power up.

missing pieces have a habit of showing up in the wrong places at times.

Ron

[SEK22Hornet]

I have applied 12 volts to the brake and it released. Motor turns fine. I found another bag that had the rest of the missing hardware in it so I'm pretty comfortable that there is nothing inside the motor. I traced out all the connections on the motor PCB back to the encoder. Terminal 17 is labeled +12 on the motor board. It has no connection to the encoder. There is also a terminal labeled Encoder plus (terminal 11) - it is wired to the V+ terminal of the encoder. The pigtail has no wire labeled for terminal 11. It does have one labeled for terminal 17. The wire labeled for 17 was traced back to J2 pin 4 of the driver board. My guess is that when the company rebuilt the servo, they connected the new encoder to terminal 11 instead of terminal 17.

[rl49]

Looks like you have a handle on it, going to get power to it today?

Ron

[SEK22Hornet]

Hi Hornet, the encoder wires come from the z axis plug on the card cage not the drive card terminals , Looking at the schematic Sporty bob sent +12 VDC Pin J2-4 from Z Axis drive card goes to #17 Hall effect switch terminal on motor.
Encoder +5 VDC from x card cage plug pin #8 to Z axis servo motor encoder #10

I would also hook up 24 vdc to brake from external supply to release brake to make sure your missing hardware is not down inside motor before you power up.

missing pieces have a habit of showing up in the wrong places at times.

Ron

Yes - I realize the position encoder terminals come from the card cage - just wanted to get the wires between the motor and drive sorted out first. The encoder has a single power connection - not one for +5 and one for +12. Looks like pin 11 was intended for the +5 connection to the card cage power - That was just a good stopping place for me yesterday. Was getting tired of standing on the ladder - lol

[SEK22Hornet]

ok - just hooked up power. I only have single phase - looking at several manuals it looks like it should run everything fine - turned on power and no smoke - I'm hooked to what i believe is L1 and L3. Fans came on and I heard a couple beeps from the pc. CRT powered up but only got retrace lines no video. It was not removed for the move so I'm suspicious of it - have the operator station pulled out and looking for a spare monitor that works to try in place of the CRT. By the way - nothing on the control panel lit up - no switches lamps etc. Going to get a monitor on it first thing and see if I can see any video.

[rl49]

try cleaning and re seating video card in control cage if plugging in monitor into control panel vga connector doesn't work. or direct to vga output on video card to known good monitor.

Something might have loosened up on trip.

If no lights flashing on control panel look at motherboard not completing post boot up after checking all connectors to control panel.

Ron

[SEK22Hornet]

try cleaning and re seating video card in control cage if plugging in monitor into control panel vga connector doesn't work. or direct to vga output on video card to known good monitor.

Something might have loosened up on trip.

If no lights flashing on control panel look at motherboard not completing post boot up after checking all connectors to control panel.

Ron

Ok - pulled the lid off the pc and checked the coin cell - it was at 2.2 volts so put a new one in it. Re-seated the SBC and the other card and hooked up a LCD monitor in place of the CRT. The control booted up. Went ahead and made a quick and dirty mount for the little monitor and removed the CRT. Will make a better set of brackets later. Making up a power cord for the LCD now. Just about ready to power it back up. I did try plugging the CRT back in and still no dice on it so figured may as well get the lcd that I have hung in place so it doesn't get knocked off. Did have some lights on the control panel this time.

[rl49]

Great, dig out some floppy's and do a parameter backup first complete boot press F7 then F6 after inserting floppy in drive , make multiple floppy's and archive one on home computer.

Press F10 then F6 for info screens. I always take screen shots of each screen w/cell phone.

Then on to see if Z motor operational.

Clamp down Z motor before you reset drives as if it tries to run away it will flip off top of column

[SEK22Hornet]

so here is where I am right now - I have power to the machine. I still need to finish wiring the encoder to the controller. I have a temporary monitor hung on the operator station. When I power up here is the screen I get - I also attached a couple shots of the inside of the controller. The error 449 on the screen is what caused this machine to be retired, by the way.

[rl49]

trace wires from encoder to green terminal strip on servo pcb board all way back to Z axis plug making sure pin to encoder wiring is good and correct terminals.

I have also found the occasional pin on the card cage wiring plugs that had pushed out and were not seated securely

Hopefully they haven't damaged the encoder.

If you have an oscilloscope you can put 5 volts to encoder power and ground and check signals while rotating encoder.

I have unplugged all wires to a drive card and reset other drives to isolate control from a drive card fault.

[sportybob]

Hi All, It might be worth noting that SEK22Hornet has a machine that has Servo dynamics " 1422" AC drives with Custom Servo Motors "CSM" motors. This is an entirely different animal then the "normal" DC drives, (MSI, ( real early) Fenner,( later) Servo Dynamics, ( a little later) Glentek, (Most resent) drives most P1 and early VM machines have.

This system does things a little different. This and a couple other "try's" at early AC motors and drives were tried before going with Yaskawa drives and motors.

I have info on all these systems, and I am coming out with new DC motors (one in house for "testing" and (working on) an updated DC drive. New replacements for the CSM and "Servo D" drives are also in the works. Why? because most of these drives and motors are 25 years old and are getting beyond repair.
90% of the motors I get back as an "exchange" for my rebuilt motors are NOT repairable. It is time to look for new parts but not at the expense of the "small guy" pricing. This is 4 years of getting to this point where I can offer a " motor, encoder and new " one dame tough" cable assy ( no drying, cracking, leaking) Motors and drives made in the USA, no Chinese, OK the current motor encoder is made in Japan. (working on that)
It will all be mostly "plug and play". (there will be an adaptor cable to plug in for the drives) motors "one for one" connections.

CNC Zone thoughts and suggestions are WELCOME!

Sportybob

[SEK22Hornet]

Sounds interesting - been looking at the connection that control the drives and it looks like a different drive / motor system would certainly be a possibility.

[SEK22Hornet]

Quick update - I finished wiring the motor back in and used a 12v power supply to release the brake. This lets be turn the motor by hand. I powered up the control and gave it a couple turns. I walked back around to the front and the Z axis readout was no longer at 0! The encoder obviously has power and is working - and it counts up in one direction and down turning the motor in the opposite direction. Seems like a pretty minor thing but feels like a huge step forward - now on to troubleshooting the reset circuit to get power to the drives - have schematics fro sportybob and have been looking those over so i have places marked to check -

[sportybob]

Hi Hornet, A couple of things to look for.
a red message on boot up that says "error 450" no red message, we have other problems, ( the machine thinks it is already reset or we are missing some voltage.

enter the parameters, F1 setup, F1 level, access code is PROTO3 <enter>, access level is 3. Escape back to main menu, got to F6 display F4 DIAG 2 columns show up, the left hand column is the inputs to the control, the right hand column are the out puts from the control. look for out put # 9 ( allow reset) this should be a 1 when you press reset. this is the out put to the CR1 contactor that enables the drives.

when you get in front of the machine give me a call we will go thru a few things.
952-288-6340

sportybob

[SEK22Hornet]

Did a little looking around - have 24 volts at the relay board. Pin 9 allow reset is sitting at 24 volts. Had my assistant (that is my wife lol) press the reset button while I watched the Allow Reset line with my little scopemeter and could see the line drop about .5 volts whenever she pressed the button. Went to the diagnostic screen you wanted me to look at and the output 9 does not change - it shows it off (black circle - I assume that is off). The error message is shown in the photo I posted the other day - Error 449 Emergency Reset in a red box. I'm done for today lol.

[sportybob]

Hi Hornet, 449 is a drive fault, ( X, Y, Z, spindle) with a drive fault the machine will not reset. The X out 9 will only turn on once when the reset button is pushed. If pushed and held the out put stays on.
all I/O is NPN so OUT is a low signal level as you saw, IN is a "ground"
one of the drives is inputting a low to X input 9, preventing the CR1 contactor to enable.
You could pull the pin from X in 9 and see which drive is the problem.

Call me tomorrow afternoon, I will be in the shop.

sportybob

[SEK22Hornet]

Well I got a little farther and have found a problem that will take me some time to resolve. Unplugging the drive boards (all 3) got rid of the Drive error and allowed the reset pulse to pull in and power the drives, etc. It would not stay reset, but it gives me a chance to do dome more troubleshooting. So I started plugging them in one by one and powering the machine back up. X drive came up ok and I could even jog it a little with the reset button held down. Plugged in the Y drive and no error but the Y axis errors out when I try to move it - error 409 excess I think it said. Unplugged the Y and plugged in the Z axis and got fireworks! Heard arcing behind the machine - Pulled the z axis board and started looking closely - noticed three small to-92 transistors with the side blown off. Smoke marks on the bracket near the FETs. Burn marks on the U phase connection. A ground trace burned in two in two places. Brought it inside and pulled the board off of the plate - this is not the way to isolate high voltage parts from ground! Had black electrical tape in place of the silpads or in addition to them in some places - see the photo. At least three shorted FETs. Looks like I may have 2 bad driver boards - on for sure! The reason the tape will not work is this - the silpad is a silicone coated fiberglass cloth made to transfer heat while insulating the part from the heatsink. The tape just compresses and and in this case looks like it arced through as well as not allowing the heat to get to the heatsink. FET's break down fast when they overheat.