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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)
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  1. #121
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    Things are going slow but they're going. He took longer than expected to find a machine and premises, he got raped by some Trump metal tax and spent longer trying to find aluminium at a decent price, he spent longer than he thought he would getting toolpaths etc sorted on his new machine and it's all gone a bit slower than he thought.

    This was no great surprise, giving himself six months to go from nothing to shipping hardware seemed a little optimistic.

    But he's still posting updates, parts are piling up and he's steadily getting closer to the finish line.

    My only beef is the long periods of silence between updates. Personally, although I'm not feeling super nervous about my coin yet, I'd feel a hell of a lot better if he'd take an hour a week of production time to post up a regular progress blog. Heck, even if it was sometimes "Still waiting on that shipment of bearings, nothing much to report this week" it'd give us some idea of movement.
    I think he is a little over his head, he most likely will run out of money before he has completed what he has to do, I don't think he set his goal or cost high enough to start with, the payments on his machine rent Etc will be his biggest problem, and he did not get the machine he needed 40" against a 50" is a big difference

    I looked at the Kickstarter updates and they are doing some good work, and the machines should be good

    I would not believe that he got hit with any metal tax at all that is just an excuse, the materials he is using is all produced in the USA so has nothing to do with imported materials, if that is what his supplier is telling him than he needs to change supplier he has some serious amounts of material and deals can be made when buying those kind of volumes of material
    Mactec54

  2. #122
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    May 2015
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    My memory's hazy on this but I seem to recall he had to go hunting for a supplier that could keep the cost low on the ali. Honestly, though, I could be confusing this against another project.

  3. #123
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    My memory's hazy on this but I seem to recall he had to go hunting for a supplier that could keep the cost low on the ali. Honestly, though, I could be confusing this against another project.
    Well I hope he did because a lot would be breaking there neck to get big orders like this, there are deals to be had when buying volumes like he has had to
    Mactec54

  4. #124
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    Mar 2018
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    68

    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    1st and second quarter of 2018 was really bad for aluminum price. basically tariffs are there to decrease concurrence, if there is less concurrence, prices rise, basic rule of economy. and its a fact prices rises beginning - mid 2018. i just hope for everyone they will get their machine and hope this guy can continue is business and have a living with what he loves.

  5. #125
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by HuguesP View Post
    1st and second quarter of 2018 was really bad for aluminum price. basically tariffs are there to decrease concurrence, if there is less concurrence, prices rise, basic rule of economy. and its a fact prices rises beginning - mid 2018. i just hope for everyone they will get their machine and hope this guy can continue is business and have a living with what he loves.
    I believe that that spike was price gouging by suppliers not because of any tariffs, no tariffs had taken place at that time Canada produces it's own Aluminum also so should of had zero effect on the material cost, just like gas when there was changes in price the resellers changed there prices daily even though they had full tanks

    Most price change affects take months to take any affect to the consumer, just greedy retailers taking advantage of opportunities'
    Mactec54

  6. #126
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Also, he was purchasing 3rd quarter IIRC

  7. #127
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    Also, he was purchasing 3rd quarter IIRC
    Material Aluminum and Steel from Canada and Mexico imported to the USA have no Tariffs on it, so should not of made any difference when he was buying his material none of it should of been affected by Tariffs, just greedy retailers if that was the case
    Mactec54

  8. #128
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    Mar 2018
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    i work in the metal (steel and aluminum cladding) and i guarranty you there is US tarrif for canadian aluminum and canada responded with their on tarrifs on us imports! we learned it the hard way, loosing many thousand dollars with our imports and exports

  9. #129
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by HuguesP View Post
    i work in the metal (steel and aluminum cladding) and i guarranty you there is US tarrif for canadian aluminum and canada responded with their on tarrifs on us imports! we learned it the hard way, loosing many thousand dollars with our imports and exports
    No it clearly states that Canada and Mexico are clear no Tariffs on aluminum and steel

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/us-...rump-1.4567230
    Mactec54

  10. #130
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No it clearly states that Canada and Mexico are clear no Tariffs on aluminum and steel

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/us-...rump-1.4567230
    What you quote is a article from february 2018, at that time EU, canada and mexico, where exempted, since june 1st 2018 eu, canada, mexico are no more exempt, so up to now it seems the only contry not concerned by tarrifs are australia and argentina, i dont want to talk about this anymore, we are hijacking the thread!


  11. #131
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by HuguesP View Post
    What you quote is a article from february 2018, at that time EU, canada and mexico, where exempted, since june 1st 2018 eu, canada, mexico are no more exempt, so up to now it seems the only contry not concerned by tarrifs are australia and argentina, i dont want to talk about this anymore, we are hijacking the thread!
    If you had read the posts, at the time he was ordering material there was just talk of Tariffs nothing more, and even if there was something added, it still should not have had any affect on what he was buying from us suppliers at the time, there is definitely a trickle down affect going on but nothing drastic that is going to affect very many business in manufacturing, it depends a lot on the type of material you are using sheet bar stock round Etc

    So you got 10% on aluminum for your Tariffs exporting to the USA , and it probably spins off on something else anyway and balances out
    Mactec54

  12. #132
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    Mar 2019
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    5

    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Waiting for opinions from lucky owners

  13. #133
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    Sep 2011
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    43

    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by ydrea View Post
    Waiting for opinions from lucky owners
    What is the disposition of this? Has he shipped anything?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #134
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by jcsb View Post
    What is the disposition of this? Has he shipped anything?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes It would be good to know how the progress of these machines are going, no updates on Facebook
    Mactec54

  15. #135
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    May 2015
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Sadly no: he’s been fvcked hard by the bright orange douche canoe’s tariff frenzy and looking at various ways of getting the frames (which are nearly finished) populated with hardware, electronics, motors etc and ready to ship.

    No holdup in design or manufacturing, but trying to source stuff in US stock that still sits at the old prices or finding some extra funding to get these finished off.

    Super frustrating for his backers, can’t imagine what it’s like for an honest, earnest guy like him to be stuck in this hole.

    Mactec: please just have a think about besmirching reputations and feelings before you start spewing bullsh1t on this topic again. Cheers.

  16. #136
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    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    [QUOTE=dharmic;2305922]Sadly no: he’s been fvcked hard by the bright orange douche canoe’s tariff frenzy and looking at various ways of getting the frames (which are nearly finished) populated with hardware, electronics, motors etc and ready to ship.

    No holdup in design or manufacturing, but trying to source stuff in US stock that still sits at the old prices or finding some extra funding to get these finished off.

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    Super frustrating for his backers, can’t imagine what it’s like for an honest, earnest guy like him to be stuck in this hole.
    If he was honest he would tell his backer the truth he made an honest mistake Under Funded which I did say from the start, this was a big undertaking and you need a financial cushion for a project like this

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    Mactec: please just have a think about besmirching reputations and feelings before you start spewing bullsh1t on this topic again. Cheers.
    Not sure where you are coming from I have only been supportive of the project, under funded from the start has nothing to do with me just your and his bad judgment, using the tariff thing is total Bs I'm in manufacturing and have not seen very much change that would affect a project like this, buying large amounts of material and electronics is still a buyer's market, and there are deals to be made, which will still be at a better price even with any tariff's added, I buy materials aluminum / steel / electrical and electronics parts every week so know what's up with the market

    Just check the retail pricing of his materials ( not discounted ) from when he started and the price of the same items today, open your eyes
    Mactec54

  17. #137

    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    The 10% tariff on aluminum began in March 2018 and the kickstarter ended May 18th, 2018. The 25% tariff on Chinese Aluminum started in May of 2019, while the tariffs on Mexican and Canadian on aluminum were eliminated all together.

    I'm not saying the tariffs didn't hurt, but the time line doesn't exactly add up.

    I have bought quite a bit number of steppers and drivers as well as imported a BLDC in the last five years, prices in my opinion are not much higher than they were, but I'm not buying 500 of each so maybe I might not be noticing the difference.

    Link to latest update - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/2512698

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    586

    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Did you not get the memo, everything is Trump's fault...... even personal judgement?

  19. #139

    Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Man, I'm kind of glad I didn't go for this. It seemed like a "too good to be true" type of price point. I'm hoping they do finish the kit for backers, and make it available but who knows really.

    The tarrif thing doesn't make much sense. I've been following this out of interest, thought I might buy in the future after the kickstarter. They had a Kickstarter update, showing how they bought all the metal, steppers, etc. So...I mean if they had all the materials for the build purchased already, say 90+%, why or how would the tariff affect them?

    My personal opinion/advise to the Overlord people...
    Get a loan, dig into your pockets, make it happen. Start your business, and build it up. Launch is hard, but you could have a nice business if you follow through. If it were me, and I had some money in the bank, I'd take my own money out to make it happen. I really don't understand, if broke people try to launch a product, did a bad job predicting costs, and then shaft everyone and shut down. I imagine you guys have something in your bank, and you have been paying yourselves I would assume for the past year of labor. You guys seem like smart people with an education that wasn't cheap, if all else fails ask your parents for help. Otherwise...you've just taken a lot of money from innocent people, had fun playing around and playing your dream game, failed, and ran away with no responsibility.

    If you do make it, I'd seriously consider buying one when they go retail

  20. #140
    You can buy rubber ball screw covers (accordion style) on eBay for $15. You need two for each axis. They come in all sorts of sizes and will expand and collapse as the axis moves. That’s the direction I would suggest over way covers. Most covers on small machines are rubber mats and we all know swarf finds it’s way behind them anyways. Used together would be ideal in any application. Nowadays ball screws can be had for so cheap i don’t see why they couldn’t be purchased in quantities comparable to lead screws. I have smaller 12mm ball screws that cost $75 shipped for 3 axis. That’s hardly an impact on the overall cost to build the machine. And the screws included bearing blocks with a double nut for each. One of the screws (10”) I paid $15 for it. I have a toolbox drawer full of ball screws at these prices because I wanted to have them on hand for projects. Besides they’re easy to cut to length when needed. I’m sure folks would’ve paid $250 more for ball screws. Curious whatever happened with this project there isn’t much online about it or any feedback from customers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    skrubol, the boxways and leadscrew nuts on this machine don't need grease or oil at all. They run fine completely dry. Metal on metal contact needs lubrication but slippery plastics like acetal work fine dry, so long as the speed is low.


    Krispee, I agree on the way covers. Many machines with boxways (even modern ones) are built without way covers because the boxways don't crunch chips, and the coolant gets pushed out by the lubrication system. Everyone else with sliding way covers just has to deal with long term contamination.

    The screw wipers you linked to look pretty cool. As long as the sealing lip isn't abrasive on the screw surface they would probably help a lot in a dirty environment.

    Ground ballscrews with double nuts, preloaded on both ends are the industry standard for the better machines. The cheaper machines are lacking in ballscrew size and often only use a single ballnut. Cheaper machines don't have heavy thrust bearing blocks either, take Haas and Fadal machines for example.

    The acetal nuts on the SwissMak are 3 inches long; this effectively cancels any small variations in screw pitch. The only way to get machine accuracy over any large travel is to comp the ballscrews with a laser and store the data set in the machine control.

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