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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3

    Lightbulb Artcam replacement

    Hi all

    I have only been machining for about a month now and have been using Artcam in combination with Fusion360. I can tell you that my luck is the reason that Autodesk has decided to discontinue Artcam, and now I really need some advice.
    The past month I have been using Artcam exclusively for engraving, and when I heard about it being discontinued, I immediately looked for other software solutions.
    I managed to get Type3 to send me a dongle with 1 month free trail of Type Edit. Unfortunately It just felt extremely over complicated and cluttered in comparison to Artcam - Achieving the simplest of tasks took about 5 extra steps.
    I really would appreciate some advice on which software I should look at as a replacement - I have looked at TypeEdit and Aspire.

    Please remember, I'm very new to this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Aspire or Enroute.
    Enroute is probably more powerful, but much more expensive.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Thanks for the reply Ger21. Would you mind elaborating on where Enroute would be more powerful? What kind of features would I be missing out on while saving a few Buck?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Artcam replacement

    I used to read Dan Sawatzky's Enroute blog, which showed a lot of what it's capabilities were. THis was a few years back, and I don't know if all the posts still exist anywhere. I've never actually used it myself, so can't really give you a comparison.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Here it is.

    MULTICAM
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    63

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Hi guys
    This whole ArtCAM story is a real pain in the butt.
    I wasn't taking note so I actually missed it - ordered all the parts for a LowRider (all on the water as we speak) and while I am waiting, went to download and install ArtCAM.
    That is when I found out...
    The thing is that I want to do bas-relief work and Artcam was the most viable (and recommended ) solution cost wise - you SA guys will understand what paying in $$$ can be like.
    Yes, there are other packages out there but...
    I have seen some tutorials about doing photo to bas using Blender but the learning curve on Blender is ridiculous!!!
    So I thought about it and came up with the following points after asking the question "How does it actually work?" (converting an image to G-Code that is)
    1. Get the image you want to use.
    2. Convert it to grey-scale.
    3. Figure out the final dimensions (width, length, height of relief) and feed them in.
    4. Set stuff like tool diameter, shape, max cut depth, feed speed etc etc
    5. Using bas relief height, work out the height of each color [ height of relief for black, 0 for white and increment by (1/255) * grey value for the rest ]
    6. Using tool diameter figure out how far each linear step needs to be and how far each step-over should be.
    7. Work out the tool path and generate the G-Code in one process.

    OK, I have made it sound one heck of a lot more simple than it actually is but you get the idea.
    Now the last time I did something as calculation heavy as this, Visual Basic 4 was the "flavor of the day" - but I still have a copy of VB6 so...
    Well it would not install on Win7pro so I got Visual Studio and installed that and started.
    Got the image to grey working, and the resize image to width/length and just started figuring out how I was going to figure out the tool path when Visual Studio went bezerk and screwed up my PC for me.
    Now here is the thing:
    Essentially what I outlined is exactly what all these "image to bas" programs do basically.
    Yes there are probably some clever bits that read ahead and alter the path height or whatever but it is not "magic" - they all start out with the image and convert it to G-Code and use some clever inline processes along the way.
    And all us hobby machinists that would like to do bas work need something like this - NOT the uber costly "Professional" software licenses that the bean-counters are holding us to ransom for these days - and then taking off the market.
    As I said, I tried in VB but as any developer will tell you, if you don't use it you loose it and my VB skills have not been used for about 20 years.
    So I want to do it in PHP and see what I can get going. (I am a web developer and I use PHP exclusively)
    But with PHP there is one problem: it is going to take more than 30 seconds to do the whole process and the browser will DEFINITELY time out on even a small image.
    Now, I have figured out a way around that and once my LowRider is up and running (maybe about August I hope) I'm going to start developing.
    Anyone else interested in collaborating?
    We will need math algorithm geniuses and probably a bunch of "testers"... (group)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1195

    Re: Artcam replacement

    You can't download the artcam software ? If you already had the software, you just lack of support. But you can get it somewhere. Do you have old artcam software ?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    63

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by asuratman View Post
    You can't download the artcam software ? If you already had the software, you just lack of support. But you can get it somewhere. Do you have old artcam software ?
    I have not got a copy of the software - is it still available?
    And if it is doesn't it use cloud storage or some other "must be registered and logged in" trick to prevent unauthorized usage?
    And who is to say that it does not have some sort of "timebomb" in the code that will just stop it working at sometime in the future.
    To be honest, I would rather be using software that is open-source and written by people that are passionate about the thing than some "for profit" thing.
    But that is just me...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Artcam replacement

    You can't download the artcam software ?
    No, not legally.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    63

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    No, not legally.
    Thats what I thought ...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    683

    Re: Artcam replacement

    A pox on Autodesk for this move.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    63

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    A pox on Autodesk for this move.
    Agreed - I wonder just how many people will NOT use Autodesk on principle after being dumped like this.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6463

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Progress is what progress does and that is it's either making money or costing .........when it's costing it's not profitable no matter how good it is or how many people are using it, so the move will always be to the positive that makes money......go with the flow and keep the business in profit or die with the old one.
    Ian.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    63

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Progress is what progress does and that is it's either making money or costing .........when it's costing it's not profitable no matter how good it is or how many people are using it, so the move will always be to the positive that makes money......go with the flow and keep the business in profit or die with the old one.
    Ian.
    I know the basics of business - but why withdraw it totally leaving many thousands of people high and dry?
    Leaving it "as is" and unsupported would not cost a cent but the nonsense they are getting up to is alienating a LOT of people.
    Personally I think that a subsidiarity is going to come out with ArtCAM wrapped in a new dress and a more profitable business model in the near future.
    Or maybe they will "sell" it to a new company that is owned by them behind the scenes.
    In the meantime all us folk are basically screwed - not nice of the bean-counters is it.
    So we go open source and see what we can do.
    If it works it works - if not we look for alternatives is all.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1856

    Re: Artcam replacement

    It's a strange one this decision
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6463

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by MadAubrey View Post
    I know the basics of business - but why withdraw it totally leaving many thousands of people high and dry?
    Leaving it "as is" and unsupported would not cost a cent but the nonsense they are getting up to is alienating a LOT of people.
    Personally I think that a subsidiarity is going to come out with ArtCAM wrapped in a new dress and a more profitable business model in the near future.
    Or maybe they will "sell" it to a new company that is owned by them behind the scenes.
    In the meantime all us folk are basically screwed - not nice of the bean-counters is it.
    So we go open source and see what we can do.
    If it works it works - if not we look for alternatives is all.
    Hi, it possibly could be that they want to promote the increased use of another product.......I don't know their product range .........that has been deeply financed and is not returning a quick enough investment gain.

    Back in the 60's British Leyland discontinued the production of the very successful Morris Minor 1000 car in favour of the new Morris 1100 range.

    Some businesses rely on the 80/20 rule to invest in a product range......supermarkets are a prime example of this strategy.

    When 80% of your profits are derived from 20% of your product range.......the other 80% are prime targets for reduction.
    Ian.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1856

    Re: Artcam replacement

    They make some strange decision Ian the last one I ask who needs fired it was a bad one
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Hi, it possibly could be that they want to promote the increased use of another product.
    My guess is that they just weren't selling enough subscriptions. The Pro or top level version was way overpriced, imo.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by MadAubrey View Post
    Hi guys
    This whole ArtCAM story is a real pain in the butt.
    I wasn't taking note so I actually missed it - ordered all the parts for a LowRider (all on the water as we speak) and while I am waiting, went to download and install ArtCAM.
    That is when I found out...
    The thing is that I want to do bas-relief work and Artcam was the most viable (and recommended ) solution cost wise - you SA guys will understand what paying in $$$ can be like.
    Yes, there are other packages out there but...
    I have seen some tutorials about doing photo to bas using Blender but the learning curve on Blender is ridiculous!!!
    So I thought about it and came up with the following points after asking the question "How does it actually work?" (converting an image to G-Code that is)
    1. Get the image you want to use.
    2. Convert it to grey-scale.
    3. Figure out the final dimensions (width, length, height of relief) and feed them in.
    4. Set stuff like tool diameter, shape, max cut depth, feed speed etc etc
    5. Using bas relief height, work out the height of each color [ height of relief for black, 0 for white and increment by (1/255) * grey value for the rest ]
    6. Using tool diameter figure out how far each linear step needs to be and how far each step-over should be.
    7. Work out the tool path and generate the G-Code in one process.

    OK, I have made it sound one heck of a lot more simple than it actually is but you get the idea.
    Now the last time I did something as calculation heavy as this, Visual Basic 4 was the "flavor of the day" - but I still have a copy of VB6 so...
    Well it would not install on Win7pro so I got Visual Studio and installed that and started.
    Got the image to grey working, and the resize image to width/length and just started figuring out how I was going to figure out the tool path when Visual Studio went bezerk and screwed up my PC for me.
    Now here is the thing:
    Essentially what I outlined is exactly what all these "image to bas" programs do basically.
    Yes there are probably some clever bits that read ahead and alter the path height or whatever but it is not "magic" - they all start out with the image and convert it to G-Code and use some clever inline processes along the way.
    And all us hobby machinists that would like to do bas work need something like this - NOT the uber costly "Professional" software licenses that the bean-counters are holding us to ransom for these days - and then taking off the market.
    As I said, I tried in VB but as any developer will tell you, if you don't use it you loose it and my VB skills have not been used for about 20 years.
    So I want to do it in PHP and see what I can get going. (I am a web developer and I use PHP exclusively)
    But with PHP there is one problem: it is going to take more than 30 seconds to do the whole process and the browser will DEFINITELY time out on even a small image.
    Now, I have figured out a way around that and once my LowRider is up and running (maybe about August I hope) I'm going to start developing.
    Anyone else interested in collaborating?
    We will need math algorithm geniuses and probably a bunch of "testers"... (group)
    Howzit, there is a simpler way to generate G-code using inkscape. Inkscape is also open source, so a person that knows how could use the source code from github that pertains to the " decoding " of the G-code from JPG, DXF and so forth. Here is a link to a youtube vid that I found when looking for a similar solution, hope this helps.

  20. #20

    Re: Artcam replacement

    Hi Aubrey, I would love to know how you manage to create a proper 3D Grayscale from a photo? Which software are you using?

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