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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Mori Seiki Machines > Mori Seiki Mills > '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )
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  1. #1
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    '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Hello!

    I picked up an MV40 with a Fanuc 6M-B control late last year that had some problems and wouldn't turn on. After tracking that down to a shorted limit switch on the ATC, the machine had a memory error, certainly caused by my efforts finding that short. The parameters were lost, I couldn't get a backup, and the only manual I have has a parameter table for an MV50 for some reason which I tried using. I then borrowed the parameters from another user here and the machine is finally up and running, but I am still having trouble with the ATC (the lender's machine had their ATC removed, so it may be a parameter issue.) There's evidence of some wiring repair above the carousel, though I don't have a diagram to reference and see if it's correct. I can cycle through the tool change steps with the M8x and 9x commands, but whenever the carousel needs to rotate to another position, it just spins endlessly.

    I'm not sure where to get a manual with more in depth service information or wiring diagrams. I tried contacting Mori with no success.

    Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated, thank you!


    Also, while cycling the ATC manually, I noticed that the spindle isn't at the correct height. The manual I have isn't clear about how to adjust the height for a tool change. Can anyone explain that to me?

    A few relevant pictures:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Delivery09.jpg   Failed Prox Switch Highlight.jpg   ID Plate (2).jpg   ID Plate.jpg  

    Instruction Manual.jpg   MV40 (2).jpg   New Prox.jpg  

  2. #2
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Hello again!

    I pulled off the transducer and started jumping tooth positions. This seems to have fixed the endless rotation problem and I now believe the wiring to the ATC is correct. I can call pot numbers from the control panel and the carriage is behaving consistently now, taking the shortest path to the pot.

    So the next hurdle is still the incorrect Z return position. I thought the dog that trips the home limit switch was all there was to it, so I tried adjusting that first with inconstant results. Now I understand that the home dog is just to signal for deceleration and the machine looks for the next single turn signal before actually stopping. If I read correctly, I would then need to use the reference return offset parameters to gridshift the return position, by way of parameter 84 for the Z axis. However, adjusting this parameter doesn't seem to change where the Z stops at. Have I just grossly misunderstood how the return works?

    Additionally, why isn't the parameter alarm able to be reset after adjusting the gridshift parameters (82-85) and turning the PWE back off? I have to power cycle the machine to clear the alarm. Other parameter changes don't cause the alarm to persist like that. The parameter shows the new value after turning back on, but maybe something strange is happening.

    Thanks again for any help!

  3. #3
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    One step forward, two steps back. I've been able to adjust the Z reference now ( I think I wasn't waiting long enough to turn the control back on between changing the parameter ), and was just jumping teeth on the rotary transducer to get the pots in the correct position on the tool changer when I hit a speed bump. I'm not sure what happened, but the input unit is getting an alarm from the power stabilizer board now. As far as I can tell, the over current protection on the -15v circuit is being tripped. The manual I'm going off of tells me the -15v rail is used for both the bubble memory and the position control circuit. The alarm is still tripped with the BMU removed so I guess I'm hunting for a short in the position control circuit now.

    Edit: The alarm is still tripping with nothing else connected to the master board except for the white CAP2 plug that carries the -15v. Resistance between ground pin and -15v test pin on master board is <1 ohm. Nothing on the board -looks- fried.


  4. #4
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Alright, masterboard problem fixed. Parameters reloaded, and back to ATC trouble (although I've got the tool carriage indexing correctly now)!

    I can command a tool change with Txxxx M6 without getting errors now, but the change isn't completed, barely started really. The spindle orients and the tool carriage spins to a pot, but then nothing happens.

    Here is the relevant parameters:


    So, 3004 01000000 is saying that a tool change is starting or currently executing. Ok, that's what I want, cool!
    3005 and 3006 give the current status of the executing tool change. The only 1 in there is just the cycle type. Bits 0 and 1 of 3005 are type A and B cycles. The rest of the bits for both parameters are just 0, so now I'm confused. There's a tool change executing but it's in limbo with no current status? I can complete a tool change manually with the M8x and M9x commands, so the hydraulics are working fine and I have the Z height correct now.

    (I've changed 3010 to 00000001 and 3011 to 00010110, I think there's a typo in the parameter table I have)
    I'll continue guessing and fiddling to try and get results, but any suggestions are welcome as always!

    Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    I wish I could help but I have the double arm ATC version.

    Only thing I ca add ia, are you sure you can replace the snap action limit switch with a prox switch?

    What was wrong with your main board?

  6. #6
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    A capacitor failed and shorted the -15v rail. Swapped to a backup stabilizer unit hoping that was the issue, but it wasn't. The backup has some unrelated problem which made me think my BMU was bad. So now we're back to the original stabilizer after the short was found. That switch was originally a proximity switch, still have it in a drawer somewhere, just had a different form factor. Work has kept me pretty busy over the last week so I haven't had time to mess with it. I plan to match up each relevant limit switch with their diagnostic bit to make sure they're all working, next.

  7. #7
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Well, that didn't take long. The replacement prox switch I used is likely the problem. Not seeing the bit flip when I trip it. If I short the pin, LS26, it triggers the bit. May just rig a mechanical switch in that case. I'm not sure what kind of prox I'd need if I got it wrong the first time.

    Also, took note of what looks like a broken spring on what I believe is the gear change dog? I'm not sure how this looked before/if it broke. I'm guessing it was pulling the dog down, but I don't have a parts book to see.

    (Sorry for rotated pics, they're tilted left)


  8. #8
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    If your gearbox is like mine, and I bet it is. the spring returns it to center on power off. I think. Just change gears and see if is moving..Its not a real stiff spring.

    In the pic you posted of the broken limit switch. I could swear that is a mechanical switch. But you said its a prox and I dont want to harp.but I would bet it was originally a mechanical switch. You just dont see prox switches often on machines of this vintage . But I am wrong every day.

  9. #9
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    The gear change is working fine, it doesn't return to center on power off though.

    I'd think a mechanical switch would be preferable, especially with the simple plunger action it's reading. Here is a picture of the original switch:


    Yamatake Honeywell 2FS-5895-901 NO Proximity Switch
    Like $80 for a replacement.

  10. #10
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Im no expert at electronics, but there are NPN and PNP types? Maybe that means something? Have you tested the switch apart from the machine?

  11. #11
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    I couldn't find which it was so I guessed, was probably wrong. I did test the switch when I got it, also has a led that turns on when tripped. As soon as I can find where to buy one inside of 100 miles, I'm going to try a mechanical switch. Might just have to order one.

  12. #12
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Should be a NPN on that.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    I can't find the documentation I had for the replacement, but I think that's what I went with. Was just some generic Chinese sensor. I just pulled it off and checked it again with an external power supply and it still works, but it doesn't just short the connection when tripped, there's about 10k ohms between the leads. So that'd probably be the issue. Have some limit switches coming in the mail.

  14. #14
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Got the prox switch replaced with a regular limit switch, all other relevant switches are good and showing up on the diag screen, parameters are good as far as I know. I'm not sure what it's waiting for to do the swap.

  15. #15
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    home position
    spindle orient
    tool clamped
    that is all i can think of
    maybe carusel satation and spindle tools need to be the same? Does it need to be told that the last tool change was complete? That is a thing on the double arm atc.
    is your new limit switch flipping the correct bit?

  16. #16
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    home position
    Working fine, control panel x y and z lights go green.

    spindle orient
    Spins around a few times here and there before finding it, but lights green on the panel in the correct orientation and holds it there.

    tool clamped
    There's a parameter for whether or not you have a sensor on the carousel for tool in pot, but I don't and have it turned off. The tool is clamped in the spindle just fine, I don't think there's a sensor on that end other than if the draw bar is pulled up or not. I'll verify that's working, please correct me if there's more to it.

    maybe carusel satation and spindle tools need to be the same?
    Not sure what you mean by this, it selects a random empty pot to put the spindle tool into before grabbing the next tool from whatever pot it may be in.

    Does it need to be told that the last tool change was complete? That is a thing on the double arm atc.
    How is it told that? The only indicator that a tool change is happening I can see is the pc parameter 3004-6 and the bits for which step it's on, which will alarm if left on and you power cycle the control.

    is your new limit switch flipping the correct bit?
    Can't say for sure, I don't have a manual with that information. It's in the same byte as the rest of the tool change switches, so I think it's very likely correct.


    Really appreciate the suggestions! How long have you had yours, and what year is it?

  17. #17
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Its probably the 60 or 180 deg rack position is off for the arm. You need the maintenance manual to fix this, or at least the atc portion.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    My tool changer is a carousel type, it doesn't have an arm. The whole thing slides out to the spindle and moves up/down on a piston.

  19. #19
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Oh, thats a very rare very early model. Ive only seen two others in person.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    Re: '81 Mori Seiki MV40 with Fanuc 6M-B - ATC troubles ( and probably others )

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Its probably the 60 or 180 deg rack position is off for the arm. You need the maintenance manual to fix this, or at least the atc portion.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    Underthetire, Does that also apply to the carusel changer? I used to get the alarm "60 and 180 made at the same time" when I first got this machine 7 or so years ago. Not for a long time now though.

    Not sure what you mean by this, it selects a random empty pot to put the spindle tool into before grabbing the next tool from whatever pot it may be in.
    I dont think carusels/umbrella operate this way. none that I have ever seen. 1 goes in 1 - 6 in 6. The double arm type is random. I would think the advantage of the carousel is that you can maybe use Txx instead of T50xx.

    Really appreciate the suggestions! How long have you had yours, and what year is it?
    Mine is a 45/40 whatever that means. If I remember right it is an 82.

    here is a previous post on another mv40 atc issue
    the cycle complete parameter is in there.

    apart from the atc, have you made any chips yet? These old machines can be a pain in the rear but they are great machines to run. If they are in good shape that is I guess.

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