[kunz82414]

There is a Fadal VMC40 for sale here locally for $18,900 that was rebuilt in 2015. Owner thinks original manufacture date is 1995. I am wondering if this is a decent price or not?

Description is:

"The machine was rebuilt from the casting in 2015 from West Coast CNC. I am the first owner since rebuild.
New up-dated spindle, Grease Pack 10K 2/15/17 from ITS with new belts
Low Hrs. since rebuild
All current Tooling and Pull Studs included
High low gear box, Rigid tapping, Cal-motion USB interface"

Just wondering if anyone had any opinions one way or the other on this type of machine? Thanks

[Tedger]

That's a good price for a machine that was rebuilt 3 years ago. Especially if you get some good tooling with it. Fadal's are not very fast but they are pretty reliable and cheap to repair when the break down.

[ianagos]

Idk how complete of a rebuild it was in 2015 if he had to replace the spindle agian in 2017. But otherwise sounds good. What control does it have?

[kunz82414]

I will ask about controls; also says setup for "BT Tooling".

Thanks for the replies. I am an amateur and looking to buy a good machine rather than hire others to make my parts. I appreciate the feedback.

[ianagos]

I will ask about controls; also says setup for "BT Tooling".

Thanks for the replies. I am an amateur and looking to buy a good machine rather than hire others to make my parts. I appreciate the feedback.

With spare parts you can change between bt and cat tooling but as was recommended to me I recommend you stay with whatever it’s set up for already.

Cheap tooling can be had from eBay good tooling from different suppliers.

What I did was purchase some better Chinese tooling and so far it seems ok.
I don’t recommend you go on eBay and buy the cheapest holders you can find.

I bought some toolmex stuff and I bought from a seller on eBay named
totalcnctools I only bought cat 40 but the er collets holders I bought have under .0003” of runout. I just bought a bestest 2micron indicator so I can better test. I used my .0005” to test these holders and there was not much movement. Definitely not .0005”. If you do buy Chinese just be prepared to test everything you bought. Don’t expect what they tell you to be true.

[generaldisarray]

Idk how complete of a rebuild it was in 2015 if he had to replace the spindle agian in 2017. But otherwise sounds good. What control does it have?

exactly
the definition of "rebuilt" is essentially wide open. A typical dealer found a machine , did a "five gallon" rebuild. With the expected outcome.
The air-oil spindle is known to be a superior unit the the grease pack spindle. Its not an upgrade. Especially for high rpm.
Does the "rebuilt" machine still have dc servos and resolvers?
Did they even install new Desters? What exactly does "rebuilt" mean It obviously didnt include the number one wear item, the spindle.

I sold a 94 3016 in 07 for $20k

this is not a good deal, to me at least.

[ianagos]

exactly
the definition of "rebuilt" is essentially wide open. A typical dealer found a machine , did a "five gallon" rebuild. With the expected outcome.
The air-oil spindle is known to be a superior unit the the grease pack spindle. Its not an upgrade. Especially for high rpm.
Does the "rebuilt" machine still have dc servos and resolvers?
Did they even install new Desters? What exactly does "rebuilt" mean It obviously didnt include the number one wear item, the spindle.

I sold a 94 3016 in 07 for $20k

this is not a good deal, to me at least.

I believe everything you say is spot on.
And maybe the op should do a good review of what has happed with records. If it comes with lots of tooling and stuff might be worth it but it all depends where you live. These machines can definitely be had cheaper but they might not be better for you.

Also correct me if I’m wrong but the vmc40 is one of the older machines.

With the rebuild make sure you check the turcite and oil system.

[kunz82414]

This is the Craigslist ad if anyone is interested:

https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/...507634969.html

[ianagos]

This is the Craigslist ad if anyone is interested:

https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/...507634969.html

Seems not too bad has some upgrades like the calmotiom usb and he says comes tooled. He also uses the right oil. It’s up to you whether it’s a good deal. They only person that can say whether the price is right is you. If you have any questions feel free to ask there are some very knowledgeable fadal people on this forum.

[mmurray70]

Cheap tooling can be had from eBay good tooling from different suppliers.

What I did was purchase some better Chinese tooling and so far it seems ok.
I don’t recommend you go on eBay and buy the cheapest holders you can find.

I bought some toolmex stuff and I bought from a seller on eBay named
totalcnctools I only bought cat 40 but the er collets holders I bought have under .0003” of runout. I just bought a bestest 2micron indicator so I can better test. I used my .0005” to test these holders and there was not much movement. Definitely not .0005”. If you do buy Chinese just be prepared to test everything you bought. Don’t expect what they tell you to be true.

We might be a little off the origional topic here with tooling, but Id share my experience with cheap tooling... I just started up a small shop and couldn't afford to buy new tooling so i was forced with used e-bay toolholders or new chinese ones. I bought a few chinese cat40 holders and they are completely garbage. None of them are hardened, at all. One of the ones i bought had over 0.025" runout on the pullstud! Another was an odd sized facemill holder that i couldnt find used, looked good at first glance but as soon as i tightened the screw the threads stripped immediately. Turns out the tapped hole was drilled like 0.040" oversize. Probably had some 5 year old kid sharpening drills off center. And finally the last one i had was a nice long skinny tapered ER16 holder for reaching into cavities. This one had no problems but they sent me the wrong holder! Ended up getting a long tool with huge 2" dia body all the way to the end and a tiny ER16 nut?? WTF?! Why would anybody even make a tool like this? Also all the chinese ER holders have garbage nuts, completely garbage soft steel junk.

After learning my lesson here i started looking at used name brand tooling off e-bay and got lots of good holders now. There are tons of good used quality holders on e-bay, just be patient and pick through them. You will have much better luck with used then chinese trust me.

Also im not just bashing china. I do give them credit on some things that are made decent. I have a bunch of chinese lathe tools that are ok, and even lathe inserts. Their ER collets are maybe 75% ok and are ridiculously cheap. I bought a bunch and just tossed the ones with runout. I do have a couple of Glacern cat40 holders that i think might be chinese? Not 100% sure. But these are nice. And I have a shars integrated cat40 drill chuck thats decent too. But do yourself a favor and avoid the no name brand stuff from china in terms of Cat40 holders.

[ianagos]

We might be a little off the origional topic here with tooling, but Id share my experience with cheap tooling... I just started up a small shop and couldn't afford to buy new tooling so i was forced with used e-bay toolholders or new chinese ones. I bought a few chinese cat40 holders and they are completely garbage. None of them are hardened, at all. One of the ones i bought had over 0.025" runout on the pullstud! Another was an odd sized facemill holder that i couldnt find used, looked good at first glance but as soon as i tightened the screw the threads stripped immediately. Turns out the tapped hole was drilled like 0.040" oversize. Probably had some 5 year old kid sharpening drills off center. And finally the last one i had was a nice long skinny tapered ER16 holder for reaching into cavities. This one had no problems but they sent me the wrong holder! Ended up getting a long tool with huge 2" dia body all the way to the end and a tiny ER16 nut?? WTF?! Why would anybody even make a tool like this? Also all the chinese ER holders have garbage nuts, completely garbage soft steel junk.

After learning my lesson here i started looking at used name brand tooling off e-bay and got lots of good holders now. There are tons of good used quality holders on e-bay, just be patient and pick through them. You will have much better luck with used then chinese trust me.

Also im not just bashing china. I do give them credit on some things that are made decent. I have a bunch of chinese lathe tools that are ok, and even lathe inserts. Their ER collets are maybe 75% ok and are ridiculously cheap. I bought a bunch and just tossed the ones with runout. I do have a couple of Glacern cat40 holders that i think might be chinese? Not 100% sure. But these are nice. And I have a shars integrated cat40 drill chuck thats decent too. But do yourself a favor and avoid the no name brand stuff from china in terms of Cat40 holders.

Yea some guys over at practical machinist have had decent luck with the seller i listed (tpac tools) and yea you must have had some bad luck. I like eBay because if I got trash like that I’d be returning it or getting my money back. (There are some tricks to eBay like don’t buy from the random Chinese that sell beauty products deep fryers and cat40 holders) Like I said don’t purchase the super cheap stuff and be ready to test. The used prices on eBay are ridiculous (read absolute ripoff). I bought new toolmex endmill holders (I think Chinese) for $25 each and technics (not Chinese I believe) where about $60 each but not for everything. While used on eBay either looks completely worn and gone or costs as much as a new one. Also shars pullstuds I like very much they have a little surface above the threads to line up into the counterbore. I don’t mess with the cheap and prevalent Chinese coolant through studs that’s just asking for trouble. The Chinese I bought are very well made in my opinion and I have at least 30 Erickson kennametal and other USA brand holders for tg100 and tg75 including floating tap holders and endmill holders (but In nmtb40) and I’d say the Chinese cat stuff comes very close. Honestly the cat holders have better runout then the kennametal but I attribute some of that to the face that the kennametal are use and tested in my older machine. Also glacerns is ridiculous to me. Their vise I was looking at costs more than a Kurt for a Chinese made thing and it looks like a kurt copy. Idk how they sell that.

Would also like to mention the Erickson holders are not hardened or not very much if they are. I have no clue on the cat holders and I can’t check right now.

If I remember I’ll put them on the Rockwell tester and see now you got me curious. I won’t be home for about 40 days though. If you want to discuss more feel free to pm me I’ll send you my email or number. I’d love to talk and I don’t do much being in the military.


Saying all this I’m a huge fan of American machines and all my large machines are American or Canadian made. But I can’t afford American tooling right now (government doesn’t pay much) só Chinese it is.


Sorry to throw this way off topic

[kunz82414]

Thanks for all the good info on tooling; to be honest I'm not super knowledgeable and wanting to get my own machine. I am an engineer that has been hiring out CNC work for sometime and would prefer to have some of these capabilities on my own. I was thinking of trying to find a HAAS VF-2 but if this Fadal is a good alternative, then I would certainly be interested in it too. Looking to spend under $25,000, but needs to be something I can use. Any recommendations one way or the other? Thanks.

[ianagos]

Thanks for all the good info on tooling; to be honest I'm not super knowledgeable and wanting to get my own machine. I am an engineer that has been hiring out CNC work for sometime and would prefer to have some of these capabilities on my own. I was thinking of trying to find a HAAS VF-2 but if this Fadal is a good alternative, then I would certainly be interested in it too. Looking to spend under $25,000, but needs to be something I can use. Any recommendations one way or the other? Thanks.

I’ve heard don’t get a haas from the 90s but that’s just hearsay. So far I really like my fadal because it’s so simple and parts are so cheap. I can’t say anything for Haas. I started with a knee mill abortion so moving to the fadal is great.