[Gary-Wiant]

I was routing some Versatex PVC today & I could hear the router slow a little then stopped. The table continued to run. I reset everything & still nothing.
I removed the router plugged it into the wall & nothing. The bit spins freely without slop. The router is a Porter Cable if I remember it's a 3.5hp.

I would love to replace / upgrade the table in a year or so once I get using it more & can justify it. The table design (Machine Comp) now that I know more about routers the table leaves a lot to be desired.

So my questionsare this,

1. Can it be repaired or does it need replaced?
should I get a new hand held router & replace the existing one.

2. If it needs replaced should I replace it with another Porter Cable or another "regular" router or should I purchase a cheaper Chinese spindle?

Any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

[Jim Dawson]

I assume it's a 75182 motor. A new one is $300 everywhere. You might look at the brushes, they are probably worn out. Those routers (or any universal motor) are only good for 350 to 700 hours, and I concider them a throwaway. A new armature and bearings might cost almost as much as a new motor. I concider mine a maintenance item and figure that into the per/hr operating cost of machine. Are the cheap Chinese spindles a good option for replacement? I dunno. If I were going to replace my 75182 with a spindle, I would get a water cooled one just because they are quieter. Replacing with another 75182 would be my choice simply because the mounting brackets are already on the machine.

[HoY]

I used to use a dewalt 618 on my table, but after the bearings gave up on the second one I sprung for a Chinese 2.2kw spindle with 4 bearings. Let me tell you, it's like night and day. I can actually work in the shop while the machine is working now. I didn't get one with the liquid cooling kit and opted to make my own, but would recommend against that and find one with the whole kit. It just took forever to get all the extra parts then glue and JB weld them together. My kit was about 400 usd, not much more than double what a new router would have been, plus the cost of some shielded 16/4 cable and non shielded 14/3 to plug the VFD into the wall with. Liquid cooling could have been done for less than I spent on mine, as I ended up with a lot of fittings to make the radiators and pumps all fit together, but it was about another 80-120$ with the hose.

[Gary-Wiant]

Thanks for the replies. Keep the information coming.

Gary

[KH0UJ]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wate...StoreLevelAB=0



If you want to go on chinese spindles I think this one is a good deal, it`s got everything you need on the conversion sir, it`s a brushless design which can run 8-12 hours / day 365 days a year, runs cool and quiet.

[Gary-Wiant]

Thank you, would the $95.xx in shipping charges be all the charges or would there be additional customs charges?

[1Jumper10]

I can also recommend a 2.2KW spindle. I've used a water cooled spindle 3 different times now. But after this last time I was thinking about using an air cooled version just for the simplicity if I ever build another router. The water cooled spindles hardly generate any heat. In fact, with my router being in an unheated work space, I have to run the spindle with the cooling pump off for awhile to warm it up. But they are very quiet.

For anyone considering a water cooled spindle here are some links to the pump and speed control I've used.

Pump. Electronic Goldmine - Combo 12VDC Slimline Submersible Pump and Waterproof 15Ft Cable They go on sale quite frequently for $10 - $15.

Speed control. http://a.co/08Kn8nL I've had good luck with DROK products. There are several different sizes available. This one is 10amp 12 -40 VDC.

Flow meter. http://a.co/2rwsiVt This is the flow indicator I used but I cant recommend it. It doesnt reliably indicate flow at the low rates the spindle requires. I've seen a couple YouTube videos of indicators that were just a bright colored impellor in a clear housing that rotated when there was flow. They looked simple and effective but I havent been able to find a source for them.

Radiator. http://a.co/gextE18 I used one like this with a fan but I tell you its overkill for the little amount of heat these generate. I think now a couple feet of copper tubing would dissipate all the heat you would need to.

The tubing connectors on the spindles are compatible with common metric or imperial tubing. Regular vinyl tubing would work but I went with nylon tubing because its more durable.

[ger21]

Go with the air cooled, and forget about dealing with the water cooling.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-BEARIN...IAAOSw1vlUtyPk

[wizard]

For your current spindle it is hard to tell from the posting what happened to it. However with universal motors the first thing to check is the brushes and replace them if required. Brush replacement on most routers is quick and easy plus relatively cheap.

If you have motor problems beyond the brushes then what is feasible depends upon your motor repair skills. For most people though a router is pretty much a throw away item. This especially is the case if the armature is bad.

As far as replacing the router it really is up to you! As you can already see there are varying opinions as to the route you should take. Dont dismiss the issue of how you use your machine as a real factor in choosing a route to go here. Personally id go yhe real spindle route if cash, time and space srent an issue? Why mention space? You need room or a location for the VFD and associated components!

In a nut shell the spindle is the better long term solution but it wont drop right in place.

[louieatienza]

You can remove the cover, disconnect the switch (and possibly speed control,) and try and wire the power leads directly to see if the motor spins. Might get you through in a pinch until you figure out what to do...

[adam_m]

Go with the air cooled, and forget about dealing with the water cooling.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-BEARIN...IAAOSw1vlUtyPk

Gerry,

2 questions..

- What's your experiences with air cooled vs water cooled spindles?
- How low of an RPM can those actually work at?

Adam,

[A_Camera]

Gerry,

2 questions..

- What's your experiences with air cooled vs water cooled spindles?
- How low of an RPM can those actually work at?

Adam,

I have been using 1.5kW air cooled for over a year now and no regrets at all. For drilling in alu and plastic I go as low as 4800rpm. Minimum specified speed is 6000rpm, but that is the same regardless if you are using water cooled or air cooled. If I ever build a second machine it will also be air cooled. The argument that water cooled are more quiet is only valid if you only mill air. Noise is not an issue otherwise because regardless of speed, the cutting noise is MUCH higher than the motor and fan noise. Brush less air cooled spindles are considerably quieter and run cooler than air cooled routers with brushed motors. Those routers are designed for short passes of manual routing, not for long runs in CNC at a large variety of speeds.

[ger21]

I have two that I've been bench testing for a while, but I haven't cut anything with them yet.
Actually, I think the minimum recommended speed is 8000 rpm for the air cooled.
But I think it really depends on how hard you are pushing it. It would appear from my testing that you can take light cuts at 6000 rpm, if you really needed to.

Every person I've seen using them on the forums has said they'd buy air cooled again.

As mentioned, they are pretty quiet, as they don't move a lot of air through them at slower speeds.

When chinese spindles first became available, they were all water cooled. And until the last year, air cooled were a lot more expensive, and there weren't many being sold. Now, they are cheaper, and much more prevalent.

I bet that if the air cooled had hit the market first, everyone would be using them.

[KH0UJ]

We had one air cooled spindle in the shop which I set aside because the top bearing got noisy, the fan on top keeps pushing air to cool the body and that includes dust particles too, by and by it penetrated on the top bearing and got noisy and squeeky, unlike the watercooled ones it still runs like new, we used it 8-12 hours / day, 6 days / week, straight 2 years, non of them failed yet, i did mix the water with a little radiator coolant though bacause there are snails multipying inside the bucket, and some insects too, but with coolant no more snails nor insects hiving in the bucket

[A_Camera]

We had one air cooled spindle in the shop which I set aside because the top bearing got noisy, the fan on top keeps pushing air to cool the body and that includes dust particles too, by and by it penetrated on the top bearing and got noisy and squeeky, unlike the watercooled ones it still runs like new, we used it 8-12 hours / day, 6 days / week, straight 2 years, non of them failed yet, i did mix the water with a little radiator coolant though bacause there are snails multipying inside the bucket, and some insects too, but with coolant no more snails nor insects hiving in the bucket

If dust is a problem for your bearings then what about your lungs??? I think you should get a good dust extractor, regardless if you are using water cooled or air cooled spindle. Never the less, the OP used a router before which is air cooled, so if he could use that then an air cooled spindle is absolutely not an issue for him.

[KH0UJ]

If dust is a problem for your bearings then what about your lungs??? I think you should get a good dust extractor, regardless if you are using water cooled or air cooled spindle. Never the less, the OP used a router before which is air cooled, so if he could use that then an air cooled spindle is absolutely not an issue for him.

Yep it does`nt really matter if it`s air cooled or water cooled, im just sharing my experience on both spindle units since im using it a little bit long enough and pushing it a little bit harder in a day, it`s like a stress test on which unit will survive in a long periods of time working, about the dust issue I managed to find efficient ways how to deal with it (electrical consumption) I mean like I overhaul all our unit`s ball screws every three months and it`s a tedious job man, at least now I dont have to worry about the machine`s accuracy and consistency in about a year now before I overhaul them again.

[adam_m]

I guess it really depends on how hard your pushing it... at first I though air cooled wasn't going to stay cool enough for long jobs and I never thought about one, I'm rethinking that decision now.

Thanks,

[bhurts]

There's also different versions of the air cooled units. They have round and square bodied versions. There is also a cheapo version that is a DC brush motor with a collet chuck pressed on the shaft. They usually come with a 48v DC power supply. If that's what KHOUJ had then I don't doubt it failed. I've never had one and don't need one to know there a waste of time and money for 99.9 percent of us.

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...ooled-spindle/

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...dle/300whobby/

Ben

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[adam_m]

Gerry,

Which units have you been testing, preferences?

With all your experience I'm curious what you would recommend..

Adam,

[ger21]

These are the ones that I have.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-Air-C...gAAOSwY3BZJ6MR

If I were buying today, I'd probably buy this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-MILL-EN...YAAOSwk5FUtyta


One issue with these is that it's a bit tricky to connect a ground wire, since the top is all plastic. And if you want to replace the plug with something better, there's not much material there if the new plug is larger. I made new aluminum top caps that solve both of these issues.

The main picture looks a little different, but they also include a pic that looks exactly like mine. But I suspect that this is a newer version of the ones that I have.

Since I haven't cut anything with them, I can't tell you if they are better than any others, or how long they will last.

I've run them for up to 30 minutes at a time, from 6000-24000 rpm. With no load, they only get slightly warm, and that seems to be from the bottom bearings.
If you need to push it hard, at low RPM, they may not be the best choice. But I think they would be perfectly fine for the vast majority of people.