[mick41zxr]

Has anyone had any experience with the Chinese Spindle servo motors & drives?
I only have 240v 15A single phase power available & looking for a high speed spindle motor for predominately machining aluminum & a small amount of steel.
Currently running an induction motor with Inverter driving a cartridge spindle but limited by maximum RPM.

Was looking at this for next build,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spin...712601070.html

Any advice or alternatives would be appreciated.

Michael

[Goemon]

Has anyone had any experience with the Chinese Spindle servo motors & drives?
I only have 240v 15A single phase power available & looking for a high speed spindle motor for predominately machining aluminum & a small amount of steel.
Currently running an induction motor with Inverter driving a cartridge spindle but limited by maximum RPM.

Was looking at this for next build,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spin...712601070.html

Any advice or alternatives would be appreciated.

Michael

Why are you limited to 240v / 15a? I.e. Why can't you just install a 240v / 50a breaker in your main breaker box and add a new outlet? I installed some 50a and 60a outlets in my work area. It was easy and cheap. $20 for parts and wires and I got instructions off YouTube. Took less than 5 minutes (once I got over my fear of looking in the breaker box).

My set-up is mainly for machining aluminum. Based on most of the advice I got here, I went with a high speed spindle (the kind with a built-in motor). It's the easiest and cheapest route to high speed aluminum milling.

You can use your existing motor (or any milling motor) to achieve higher speeds by using gearing but most cartridge spindles will be limited by the bearings, not the motor. 16,000 - 24,000rpn belt or pin drive milling spindle cartridges are very expensive. I saw none for less than $5,000. A 24k 2.2kw CNC router spindle and VFD capable of milling aluminum starts at $200. It's far cheaper to buy two spindles - one for high speed / high hp and the other for low speed torque than it is to buy one spindle that does both.

[mick41zxr]

Thanks Goemon,
This is installed in the shed behind my house. Unfortunately I am limited by cable size (underground x 40m) to said shed, but could push it to 20A.
I have an 80 frame WEG W21 (1.1kW) motor with inverter on my existing machine & have though about re using it with the new build but would like to have the capacity for rigid tapping & tool changing in the future.
I am finding availability from local suppliers very limiting. There appears to be a larger wealth of knowledge here on the forums.
Trying to find a spindle motor for a small VMC, 2-3hp that I can achieve 8000rpm at 1:1 ratio if possible.

[Goemon]

Thanks Goemon,
This is installed in the shed behind my house. Unfortunately I am limited by cable size (underground x 40m) to said shed, but could push it to 20A.
I have an 80 frame WEG W21 (1.1kW) motor with inverter on my existing machine & have though about re using it with the new build but would like to have the capacity for rigid tapping & tool changing in the future.
I am finding availability from local suppliers very limiting. There appears to be a larger wealth of knowledge here on the forums.
Trying to find a spindle motor for a small VMC, 2-3hp that I can achieve 8000rpm at 1:1 ratio if possible.

I get get the problem. It's slim pickings with affordable millings heads for the diy market. I spent a long time shopping for my spindle and the only affordable milling head I saw that was capable of 8,000rpm (or more) out the box was the Tormach 700 head. They sell them seperately on their site and they max out at 10,000 rpm but.... they are only 1hp - that's ok for low speed where you can get extra torque with gearing but not so great at 10,000 rpm....

I nearly bought the Tormach 700 head so many times but I concluded that they offered the worst off all worlds if milling aluminum is the focus. Low speed torque is mainly for harder metals like steel. The speed calculators I looked at stated recommended speeds of 16,000 rpm (or higher) with modern coated carbide end mills. Essentially, I would have been light on power for steel and still unable to set optimal speeds for aluminum.

It just made more sense to buy a higher HP high speed spindle for 3000-24,000 rpm and a lower hp geared / belt drive milling head for 1-3,000 rpm.

The weight difference alone makes it worth it for a diy install. My 7.5hp 24,000 rpm PDS spindle weighs 35lb. The Tormach 700 head weighs 150lb and I still get way more torque for anything above 3,000 rpm...

[Goemon]

In addition to the obvious places to look for deals of used spindles like eBay, I highly recommend checking out the rebuilt spindles on the PDS site (if you are in America). This assumes your budget is enough for an industrial spindle.

Something like this could prpbably run from a 20a outlet:

https://spindlerepair.com/product/ne...one-available/

But, I would want to find a way of upgrading that outlet. 3ph motors run from 1ph outlets draw more amps. E.g. My spindle is rated 19a 220v but the VFD draws 34a from the 1ph outlet to output 19a 3ph. A lot of VFDs I looked at were far less efficient....

[mactec54]

Has anyone had any experience with the Chinese Spindle servo motors & drives?
I only have 240v 15A single phase power available & looking for a high speed spindle motor for predominately machining aluminum & a small amount of steel.
Currently running an induction motor with Inverter driving a cartridge spindle but limited by maximum RPM.

Was looking at this for next build,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spin...712601070.html

Any advice or alternatives would be appreciated.

Michael

So it looks like the 3.7Kw would be about your max but also check to see what the input amps would need to be for the spindle Drive using single phase input

Something else, make sure that the Spindle Drive can run on Single Phase

A Baldor washdown duty motor can run at 6,000 RPM, is worth a look at, with this you could use a regular VFD Drive

[skrubol]

Baldor inverter duty motors can also run to 6000 RPM. 1.5-3 HP models come up on ebay fairly frequently. A new Baldor would be several times the cost of that Chinese motor plus driver.

[mick41zxr]

Thanks Mactec,
I think with my supply that the limit may be around 3hp, I am still not sure if a VFD can give me accurate orientation for a tool changer down the track or if this can be chaieved by other means.

[mactec54]

Thanks Mactec,
I think with my supply that the limit may be around 3hp, I am still not sure if a VFD can give me accurate orientation for a tool changer down the track or if this can be chaieved by other means.

3Hp up to 5Hp is good for a machine the size you are building

Some of the better VFD Drives can give you spindle orientation, this is normally done with an encoder on the spindle, with feed back to the VFD, if the control you choose also would give you rigid tapping as well, a servo spindle motor makes this easier to do but both types of spindle motor drives are used the same way in the industry

[mick41zxr]

Thankyou,
From my calculations 3hp would be sufficient. When you say 'better VFD' do you have any recommendations? Yasakawa, GS3?
I only have experience with SEW drive which is a V/Hz drive, nothing fancy.
I can get a H class insulation 3ph motor & drive for around half the price of spindle servo first mentioned, which is the better way to try and reach desired operating range.
2 pole motor with 1:1 spindle pulley ratio driving it to around 140Hz, or a 4 pole with 1:2 spindle pulley ratio driving it to around 140Hz.
The way I see it I would be better off with 4 pole motor as bearings & rotor speeds are kept lower. However I do not have any great experience here.

[mactec54]

Thankyou,
From my calculations 3hp would be sufficient. When you say 'better VFD' do you have any recommendations? Yasakawa, GS3?
I only have experience with SEW drive which is a V/Hz drive, nothing fancy.
I can get a H class insulation 3ph motor & drive for around half the price of spindle servo first mentioned, which is the better way to try and reach desired operating range.
2 pole motor with 1:1 spindle pulley ratio driving it to around 140Hz, or a 4 pole with 1:2 spindle pulley ratio driving it to around 140Hz.
The way I see it I would be better off with 4 pole motor as bearings & rotor speeds are kept lower. However I do not have any great experience here.

The Yaskawa V series would be better, this way you can use sensor less vector control, have better control over the torque of the motor

2 Pole will be fine, as you will loose any advantage of a 4 pole by driving it at 2:1, Unless you use ( 2 ) stepped Pulleys, so you can change from 1:2 or 2:1 this would then be a better approach

Your motor wants to be Inverter Duty rated for best performance

[skrubol]

Thankyou,
2 pole motor with 1:1 spindle pulley ratio driving it to around 140Hz, or a 4 pole with 1:2 spindle pulley ratio driving it to around 140Hz.
The way I see it I would be better off with 4 pole motor as bearings & rotor speeds are kept lower. However I do not have any great experience here.

140 Hz on a 2-pole would be 8400 RPM. Have you found a motor that can do that?
You can often get away with running a motor a bit over its name plate rated speed if it doesn't give a max rating, but it's only usually by around 1/3. (80 Hz is usually safe.)
The inverter duty motors I'm familiar with (Baldor mostly,) have a max speed of 6000 RPM whether they're 2 pole or 4 pole. 4-pole are typically bigger (and more expensive) for the same power though.

[mactec54]

140 Hz on a 2-pole would be 8400 RPM. Have you found a motor that can do that?
You can often get away with running a motor a bit over its name plate rated speed if it doesn't give a max rating, but it's only usually by around 1/3. (80 Hz is usually safe.)
The inverter duty motors I'm familiar with (Baldor mostly,) have a max speed of 6000 RPM whether they're 2 pole or 4 pole. 4-pole are typically bigger (and more expensive) for the same power though.

Any good brand AC 3Ph motor that is built as Inverter Duty can use 140Hz and more, can run at those speeds without any problems

[skrubol]

Ok, I've just never seen an inverter duty 2-pole motor.

[mick41zxr]

I was looking at the WEG W22 Motors, come in 2 pole with class H insulation. My main concern was spinning the bearings & armature that fast.
Also looking at performance curve the motor is derated to 35% torque at 140Hz.

[mactec54]

I was looking at the WEG W22 Motors, come in 2 pole with class H insulation. My main concern was spinning the bearings & armature that fast.
Also looking at performance curve the motor is derated to 35% torque at 140Hz.

You want to try and find a motor like this, it is 4 Pole and can Run to 6,000 RPM, they can run more than this but this is there spec's, WEG make good motors to so may have the same type as this, you can find this without the base and Flange mount only

IDCSWDM3611T

3HP, 1760RPM, 3PH, 60HZ, 182TC, 3636M, TEFC, F1

[skrubol]

I was looking at the WEG W22 Motors, come in 2 pole with class H insulation. My main concern was spinning the bearings & armature that fast.
Also looking at performance curve the motor is derated to 35% torque at 140Hz.

If it's a 60 Hz nominal motor, 35% torque at 140 Hz is still 80% power.