[cncspear]

Hi guys. I've been looking to upgrade to a high frequency spindle with ATC but it is VERY pricey and can't quite justify it yet. I estimate a minimum of $6k from a place like Ekstrom Carlson. In my web search I found this outfit called Midwest Rapid Tool. In short, they modifiy a porter cable 7518 router into automatic tool changing spindle. Somehow they modifiy the main router shaft with a hole down the middle so they can use a pneumatic draw bar. Very neat stuff in my opinion. They have some cool videos of the ATC in action. I am tempted to try it out since they offer a 30 day money back guarantee. But my concern is durability/longevity. What happens after 30 days? In particular, the main shaft and the aluminum tool holders. I run my router pretty hard with fairly large diameter bits. So I shot off an email to them and asked a few questions but didn't get a response aside from an out of office reply. I don't know if my q's were too tough or what. Things like "has it been endurance tested?" , "will you service the router motor?", and "is there a warranty?". I think these are fair questions to ask, but no response.

So I'm fishing for info.

Has anyone used or seen this ATC system?

Do you think it is worth the $2k or would you rather hang on to the money and invest in an industrial ATC?

Any comments/concerns from the pros out there?


http://www.midwestrapidtool.com/

Thanks in advance....

[CNC Pro]

Well it’s a novel idea. And a neat piece of engineering, but I would be suspect of the strength & rigidity of an already small diameter spindle being bored out.
At best, I would think the aluminum tool holders would be a headache in waiting, at worst, an impending injury. If you are currently using your router for heavy cuts, you may have experienced bit slippage with the decent stock collet configuration. The setscrew holding works with end mill holders, but they are constructed / machined of a fine grade of steel. Balance would also be an issue especially at 21,000 rpms.

One of my CNC routers uses the porter cable 7518 router in a production environment. For less complex 2D-3D parts it’s an appealing choice for a spindle as replacements/parts are fairly inexpensive. I have several of these routers on hand so if I have a bearing failure, control module burns out, etc. I simply swap them out and continue. With a system such as the Midwest’s ATC, that luxury is lost.

My other CNC router has a 10hp Colombo spindle with ATC. It is light years ahead of the porter cable machine in power, capacity, rigidity, accuracy, dependability and flexibility. But, at the time of purchase, it was a $15,000.00 option, and if it does have problems, repairs come at a higher price.

I would be interested in Midwest’s ATC, but I too would like to see more info, and real world feed back first to prove my fears wrong.

[cncspear]

Thanks for reply CNCPro. Looks like were on the same train of thought.

You also bring up good points about a motor going down and not having a spare motor or machine . In my case I don't have a spare machine and I really can't afford being out of commision and waiting on a motor to get fixed. I guess its okay if its just a hobby, but if customers are waiting its a bad situation.

[CNC Pro]

Hey cncspear,
If my wife were present, she would offer you her condolences for having the same “train of thought” as me.


A couple of things to consider:
The videos of the Midwest system demonstrate both a “manual” and automatic tool change & both seem very smooth. While in “manual” situations it’s pretty straightforward, but the complexity of a full automatic change with toolbar and all switches, actuators etc. need to work seamlessly with all components involved, including the controller and it’s software. Installing & understanding these parts for a DIY would most likely require tech support at some point, the slow/no response you encountered would be in the back of my mind if considering the investment.

Also, in full automatic mode, a change from one tool to another (for example router bit to drill bit) often requires a change in spindle RPM, while the porter cable 7518 router is a multi speed unit, it is still a manually selected process. An ATC system with software/control driven speed changes is beneficial to both tool life & part finish.

[cut more]

Has anyone used this toolchanger yet?
http://www.midwestrapidtool.com/
This looks like the winning setup for routers but I would like to hear any feedback from the real world.
Thank you for any replies.
As for the prior comments about what if the router goes feet up, So what. Save your original router as a spare!
Cutmore

[ajmoir]

I really like this set up :-) Even for my cheap DIY router it's given me ideas.

The only problem I see is that the actuator is not mounted to the router body but rather suspended above the router on an angle bracket.

But the area I really question is the pricing?

[askalot]

Hi All,

[askalot]

Hi All,

i have gone down the path of buying the midwest rapid tool and have instaled on my machine and run it under mach3.

the macros i received with the purchase where a bit hap-hazard but considering the whole kit was for shopbot they went and created the mach3 screen.

The screen worked ok but had to do a fair work to find the dro's and match them to
the macros so i could get it to work.

now works very well changes tools and has tool offsets.

as to the tool length an size yes there so concerns but in general i have had none, my
largest tool is 3/4" dia and 2" long. Works fine at 15,000 RPM.

have made some pieces and done some engraving but had some issues with the z axis i needed to counterbalance it i have now done that and i beleive that z axis is now a little better at repeatability but still have to prove that but couterbalance works great.

there are a few possible comments to make about the router it is a little noisy in it's
operation.

for the hobbist i can not complain other than the support if you are outside the us, it's
pack it up and send it and you might see it again in six weeks. ( i am in australia )

also had i problem with return emails the company does not always respond and some
times never responds to some emails but does eventaully repond to others.
Go Figure....????

i hope this is helpful to others that considering the same option for an Auto tool Changer option.

Any other questions on the tool changer please feel free to ask.

Kind Regards

AskAlot

[spoiledbrat]

Who dug this one up? either way... how about more power and rigidity?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101803 .
Too bad this one is quieter in operation, probably has more longevity, and costs less. Oh well.

BT-30 toolholders run about 110 complete with collet. Check "maritool" in google.

Cheers!

[cwiliam]

AskAlot it's getting close to two years with the Midwest rapidtool
is it still operating ?
what do you think of it now?
would you recommend it?

[askalot]

Hi cwiliam,

i have been using the midwestrapidtool for about 2 years, and as far it goes there is no real concerns with it but i did have some initial start up concerns getting all to function.

e.g. Macros, wiring and conversion for imperial to metric inside the macros.

but as to the functionality of the unit i am not a high user i am just a hobbyist so
i do not push it like it would be in a commercial enviroment but i still do any where
up to 20 to 30 hours a week and it functions very well .

i have had one incident which case some damage but one thing i will say is that
when i spoke to midwestrapid about it they where right there to help me gave them
photos they looked at photos and got back to me very quickly willing to help and
offer sugustions and possible fixes now thats good after so long.

as to whether i would recommend it to someone else. i would but remember this is
a spindle alternative if you are going to use it as a spindle do not go by one that is
a spindle.

now as to the the possible negatives the porter cable router sucks air into the top of the router and pushes it out past the tool onto the work piece if you are cutting mdf for example the air coming past the tool with blow the dust every where faster that an extraction fan can catch it.

Again the porter cable router is a bit noisy probably a bit louder than your standard router.

Other than those things it works well. but most off all machine must be stable and repeat so that tool changes happen smoothly as well know that's a given.

So any other questions please feel free to ask.

Kind Regards

[ImagineRobots]

........
Again the porter cable router is a bit noisy probably a bit louder than your standard router.

Other than those things it works well. but most off all machine must be stable and repeat so that tool changes happen smoothly as well know that's a given.

So any other questions please feel free to ask.

Kind Regards

Can you comment on how the router was modified? Does the pneumatic cylinder push down on some type of spring loaded draw bar? A few close up pictures would be nice if you have time.

thx!

[cwiliam]

thank you AskAlot
I was communicating with Midwest by email but haven't gotten a response since
March 19
I hope I didn't do anything to get him mad with me
I will buy an ATC
if anyone knows him let me know if he is ok and let him know I'm interested in proceeding with the purchase


thanks cnczone

[askalot]

Hi Imaginerobots,

To Answer you question as to the router and it's modification, yes they did modify it
a bit by changing the inner main shaft wit a larger one so the draw bar and collet
puller can fit up inside the main shaft bore.

Plus there where a few other moifications but they are only small.

Yes i can give you some snap shots but not sure on how to attach them to to the post
a bit new to that. maybe i can grab your e-mail and send them that way.

up to you, let me know

Kind Regards

[ImagineRobots]

Hi Imaginerobots,

....
Yes i can give you some snap shots but not sure on how to attach them to to the post
a bit new to that. maybe i can grab your e-mail and send them that way.

up to you, let me know

Kind Regards

Thanks a lot for the description. I think I understand how it works and pictures won't be necessary.